OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

[Betty P]

BBM
I'm sorry, I disagree. LE could not get out to rural areas in time to save a county(ies) of people who were widely dispersed. Once their radar was up, those folks were armed. Once they knew who the focus was on? A W trying to ask for directions in the dark would most likely have been shot on sight if he/she was on someone's property. The ONLY reason they pulled of the R/HHG murders was due to months of tracking them. They wouldn't have that opportunity again, after they were placed under "laser focus". Let them out of jail and the laser focus goes back on the W4, forever. They'd move away into solitude somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

It's ok to disagree, makes for good discussions.

Remember, it was 1 year and about 4 months after the murders before LE named the W's as their laser focus. For all that time, most people in the area probably had no idea who the killers were. We heard many of those comments in the news media after the arrests last year - locals saying they were shocked and surprised. Every one in that area was in danger prior to those arrests. GW3 (Billy) had previously been arrested for waving a gun and threatening someone in a road rage incident. I've no doubt, in their paranoid minds, they could have attacked some innocent local based on an odd remark or something. Had they not felt like LE were in the area investigating, they might have harmed others. In the year after the murders, they weren't out much, didn't attend the funerals, didn't take S to visit her family members.

MOO

 

[Betty P]

I doubt that's going to happen anymore Johnny and that's a shame.

It shouldn't be a problem if someone is willing to become a verified insider. It can be done without revealing their identity to the public. Only web site owner Tricia will know. Many case insiders have done the same here without problems.

 

[rsd1200]

It's ok to disagree, makes for good discussions.

Remember, it was 1 year and about 4 months after the murders before LE named the W's as their laser focus. For all that time, most people in the area probably had no idea who the killers were. We heard many of those comments in the news media after the arrests last year - locals saying they were shocked and surprised. Every one in that area was in danger prior to those arrests. GW3 (Billy) had previously been arrested for waving a gun and threatening someone in a road rage incident. I've no doubt, in their paranoid minds, they could have attacked some innocent local based on an odd remark or something. Had they not felt like LE were in the area investigating, they might have harmed others. In the year after the murders, they weren't out much, didn't attend the funerals, didn't take S to visit her family members.

MOO

LE would be in any area investigating murders. If I murdered someone I'd be staying close to home. I'm not talking about prior to the laser focus. I'm talking about people who don't want to come out and speak against them now, during the hearing and trial phase and after they were arrested. If they won't do it now, then don't do it after. I won't believe them. LE cannot be everywhere in a county that size, before, or after, the arrests. I understand if they didn't want to talk publicly, before the laser focus, and arrests, b/c it could have been their neighbor or a nutty family member. That's not what I'm referring to, I'm referring to the now, the present and the future.

 

[rsd1200]

It shouldn't be a problem if someone is willing to become a verified insider. It can be done without revealing their identity to the public. Only web site owner Tricia will know. Many case insiders have done the same here without problems.

If I were an insider, I'd not come out, on here. I agree with CA on this.

 

[rsd1200]

I am not sure what you mean Loomis. Can you clarify? It's no secret on here that I have family in local, state and federal LE and I am very proud of them as I know personally how much they sacrifice to protect others. I don't think I am any more protected than anyone else as it takes the same amount of time for a relative on duty to get to my house as it does a non relative LEO if I call 911. WS is very pro LE. Or they have been as long as I have been on here. I think the LEO's working on the Rhoden case did an excellent job. I am sure they pulled a lot of overtime and even when they were off duty with family I would imagine this case was never very far from their mind. They followed the evidence. They arrested the suspects. Now the suspects are going to trial. A job well done I would say.

I don't think Readers gambling had any effect on the investigation. From what I have read in MSM (I don't have the link to the articles but I remember reading them so for now it's opinion I guess unless someone remembers what article it was and provides a link for me) Reader's gambling began after the murders. I would say he went to the casinos to try to forget what he saw that day and to try to deal with the stress of trying to solve a very complicated crime by trying to get away from it in a place that had nothing to do with it. The casinos are great for that as you can sit there and play a machine and never have to talk to anyone else the whole time you are there if you don't want to. I don't know how the casinos in Ohio are but here if someone is bothering you by talking to you while you are trying to play all you have to do is tell security who will toss the offending person out on their ear. I saw an escalating gambling problem, but not a huge one. I think he lost about 11000.00 over three years. In my business I have seen people lose 1.9 million dollars in one year at the casinos. I have seen people win over 400000.00 in one year but can't pay their utility bills and have to borrow money for their electric bill. They lose that 400000.00 back plus their entire paycheck each week. Casinos are not built on winners. Readers 11000.00 over 3 years was a drop in the bucket to some I have seen.

Besides from what I understood that number was based on a players club card which gives a distorted picture of wins and losses. A win/loss statement only records what is won or lost in that casino. I think I explained this once before but will try again. Let's say a person withdraws 100.00 from their ATM. They go to the casino #1 and put 20.00 of that in a machine. They win 200.00 on their 1st spin. They now have 219.00 on the machine. They cash out. They now have 299.00 cash in their pocket. They leave and go to casino #2 where they lose the entire 299.00. Casino #1 records a 199.00 win. Casino #2 will record a 299.00 loss when actually the person only lost the 100.00 of their own money they took out of the ATM. I never trust a win/loss statement from a casino as a record of what a person won or lost gambling. I go by W2G's and bank statements. But even then a bank statement can give a distorted picture of what a person lost since gamblers typically put what they win in their bank then draw it out at the casino to play on.

I know this is all clear as mud but what I am saying is there is no accurate way to record what Reader won or lost gambling.

JMO

He gambled enough to have to borrow from his subordinates. That is a no. He messed up. He may not have messed up the case, and he may be honorable as far as his investigation duties into this case were concerned, it appears he did his job well, but he was doing things in office that get other people fired, and their names in the paper too. Many thought he was a country bumpkin who was a part of the crime, or was just too inept, but I personally feel he just had/has some personal problems that bled over into work. He had to know better, but we are all fallible. However, it's out, and he'll have to deal with it now. It's a totally separate case and we've been told it did not affect his performance on the R/HHG case.

 

[Loomis124]

It shouldn't be a problem if someone is willing to become a verified insider. It can be done without revealing their identity to the public. Only web site owner Tricia will know. Many case insiders have done the same here without problems.

Thank you, Betty.

 

[Betty P]

If I were an insider, I'd not come out, on here. I agree with CA on this.

Of course, it's a personal choice, but there's a way for people to do that if they choose.

JMO, its a good practice by Websleuths to prevent people from sharing what they allege is inside information about a case w/o verification.

 

[rsd1200]

The Ws are not sympathetic defendants. Nothing about any of them says, "feel for me". If there were sympathetic undertones to any of them, we'd have heard them. If the prosecution has their ducks in a row, they will either plea out just before trial, or they'll be sentenced accordingly. I don't see any of the four walking away from this scot free.

 

[rsd1200]

Of course, it's a personal choice, but there's a way for people to do that if they choose.

JMO, its a good practice by Websleuths to prevent people from sharing what they allege is inside information about a case w/o verification.

I didn't say it wasn't good practice by WS. I just said I don't blame folks for not doing it on here.

 

[Betty P]

I didn't say it wasn't good practice by WS. I just said I don't blame folks for not doing it on here.

I understand, also that you agree with the policy here. Sometimes new members disagree with it, but usually come to understand it in time.

On the other topic, if there are people in the Pike County area who have information, but still haven't come forward, it would help if they could. If they still don't feel safe in revealing additional info about the crimes and killers to LE there, it's reason for concern, JMO. Does that mean they're afraid the info would be leaked by LE, proscutor's office, the courts or someone who works in those areas? I hope that's not the case.

Everyone involved in prosecuting, investigating and trying the W defendants cases for the Rhoden/Gilley murders should realize they're under scrutiny from the public and news media representing the entire US and all corners of the earth. This case has worldwide news media attention. The professional careers of some of the most powerful people in Ohio are riding on this. Only a delusional narcissist would try to rig a case/jury/etc. under these circumstances. MOO

Not saying anyone is trying to do that, just bringing it up for the sake of discussion.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

D

 

[Johnny B Bad]

What kind of person that can watch your every move night and day studying you just like scouting out deer before deer season,
What kind of person that will sneak around in the dark on another person property,
What kind of person plans and carries out murders of 8 people some of which are still children,
What kind of person after killing 8 people goes to the internet and try’s to destroy the victims reputation,
What kind of person that can stand at the side of another’s bed and put a gun barrel close to their head and pull the trigger not once but several more times,
What kind of person that can kill like they did and still be able to sleep?
Mike DeWine said that all evidence points only towards the Wagner Family, the BCI lived this case night and day for over 2 years I have all the faith in the world that the BCI are right and justice will be served, but myself I think death row is way to good for the killers, they need to suffer in solitary confinement the rest of their life or let prison justice take its course, JMO
The killers of the Rhodens and Gilley Family is truly MONSTER,

 

[rsd1200]

I understand, also that you agree with the policy here. Sometimes new members disagree with it, but usually come to understand it in time.

On the other topic, if there are people in the Pike County area who have information, but still haven't come forward, it would help if they could. If they still don't feel safe in revealing additional info about the crimes and killers to LE there, it's reason for concern, JMO. Does that mean they're afraid the info would be leaked by LE, proscutor's office, the courts or someone who works in those areas? I hope that's not the case.

Everyone involved in prosecuting, investigating and trying the W defendants cases for the Rhoden/Gilley murders should realize they're under scrutiny from the public and news media representing the entire US and all corners of the earth. This case has worldwide news media attention. The professional careers of some of the most powerful people in Ohio are riding on this. Only a delusional narcissist would try to rig a case/jury/etc. under these circumstances. MOO

Not saying anyone is trying to do that, just bringing it up for the sake of discussion.

If they win this case, the professional careers of all involved are going to be bettered. A win to the defense could be seen as their clients not receiving the DP but LWOP instead.

 

[Dudly]

What kind of person that can watch your every move night and day studying you just like scouting out deer before deer season,
What kind of person that will sneak around in the dark on another person property,
What kind of person plans and carries out murders of 8 people some of which are still children,
What kind of person after killing 8 people goes to the internet and try’s to destroy the victims reputation,
What kind of person that can stand at the side of another’s bed and put a gun barrel close to their head and pull the trigger not once but several more times,
What kind of person that can kill like they did and still be able to sleep?
Mike DeWine said that all evidence points only towards the Wagner Family, the BCI lived this case night and day for over 2 years I have all the faith in the world that the BCI are right and justice will be served, but myself I think death row is way to good for the killers, they need to suffer in solitary confinement the rest of their life or let prison justice take its course, JMO
The killers of the Rhodens and Gilley Family is truly MONSTER,

Based on all you say, I've wondered why they haven't tried an insanity plea. There is no sign of thinking like what is considered "normal" in our society in committing these murders. How is it, with their way of thinking, did they get by all these years? Did GWjr and FW use money and influence keep them from being discovered for who they are previous to this crime? They didn't turn out like this in a few months time...

 

[Cool Cats]

Based on all you say, I've wondered why they haven't tried an insanity plea. There is no sign of thinking like what is considered "normal" in our society in committing these murders. How is it, with their way of thinking, did they get by all these years? Did GWjr and FW use money and influence keep them from being discovered for who they are previous to this crime? They didn't turn out like this in a few months time...

BBM
In my opinion the answer is YES. Remember Billy was caught with a shed full of stolen items and he asked the cop if he could just "pay some fine."

That speaks volumes to me anyway.

"...They found power tools and other items identified as stolen in a shed and a red horse trailer parked on the property, according to court records.

During the execution of the search warrant, Wagner claimed he'd simply purchased the tools from two individuals. He asked if he could pay "some fine," a deputy wrote... "

Pike County: Father accused in Rhoden massacre faced prior felonies

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thanks for explaining how gambling wins and losses can be skewed--make biased or distorted in a way that is regarded as inaccurate, unfair, or misleading.

Reader was greatly affected by the murders. He was practically in tears when talking to the public. He's local and took it personally.

To Pike County sheriff, killings are personal

The murders gave him insomnia and gambling was what made him feel better. Like drinking, drugs, excessive shopping, etc....Pick your poison. Sounds like he was used to gambling but the murders greatly escalated it.

Auditor's report on Pike County Sheriff: Gambling, seized cash and impounded vehicles

"..Reader revealed to investigators that his gambling activity increased during the Rhoden family homicide investigation in 2016, "when he was staying up late at night and couldn't sleep."

Thank you for providing my link for me. I remembered I read it but didn't remember where. lol

BBM
was staying up late at night and couldn't sleep."

That's why casinos stay open 24/7. There are a lot of people in casinos all night long. Some stay days if they are winning. I know this because I have family working in various jobs from security to management in casinos here. NA's are given priority for any jobs in their casinos so many tribal members work in them and most tribal members understand how they work. Some people go once a month for entertainment. Others are addicted to gambling and go daily. Most casinos have security that watch patrons and if they see them make too many trips to the ATM they will give them a 24 hour ban. They have 1-800 numbers for gamblers who think they have a problem posted all over the casinos. The problem is most gamblers with a problem don't think they have a problem but there has been many who realize they are losing too much so they ask to be banned from the casino for various lengths of time.

I suspect Reader found comfort in the thrill of winning in a casino as many people do. He could go there, not have to discuss the case, and be able to think about something other than the bodies of 8 people in what must have been a gruesome crime scene. Casinos are great for that.

I don't recommend gambling to get away from your problems as it tends to create more problems of a different kind, but I cannot find it in my heart to blame him for trying to take his mind off what he saw either.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you for providing my link for me. I remembered I read it but didn't remember where. lol

BBM
was staying up late at night and couldn't sleep."

That's why casinos stay open 24/7. There are a lot of people in casinos all night long. Some stay days if they are winning. I know this because I have family working in various jobs from security to management in casinos here. NA's are given priority for any jobs in their casinos so many tribal members work in them and most tribal members understand how they work. Some people go once a month for entertainment. Others are addicted to gambling and go daily. Most casinos have security that watch patrons and if they see them make too many trips to the ATM they will give them a 24 hour ban. They have 1-800 numbers for gamblers who think they have a problem posted all over the casinos. The problem is most gamblers with a problem don't think they have a problem but there has been many who realize they are losing too much so they ask to be banned from the casino for various lengths of time.

I suspect Reader found comfort in the thrill of winning in a casino as many people do. He could go there, not have to discuss the case, and be able to think about something other than the bodies of 8 people in what must have been a gruesome crime scene. Casinos are great for that.

I don't recommend gambling to get away from your problems as it tends to create more problems of a different kind, but I cannot find it in my heart to blame him for trying to take his mind off what he saw either.

JMO

We could never imagine walking into what he walked into. I wish him only the best.

 

[Betty P]

We could never imagine walking into what he walked into. I wish him only the best.

Walking into what he (and all the first responders) walked into that day x4. I hope everyone involved that day gets PTSD assistance for as long as they need it. Some of it will come back when the trials begin. Charlie has more stressful times ahead and I hope he gets help to deal with it.

 

[Cool Cats]

Walking into what he (and all the first responders) walked into that day x4. I hope everyone involved that day gets PTSD assistance for as long as they need it. Some of it will come back when the trials begin. Charlie has more stressful times ahead and I hope he gets help to deal with it.

Agree. Something hopeful:

Rhoden family massacre becomes personal for victim advocate

"...In the meantime, a man who has been at the side of the victims' families since the start opens up about how this case has affected him.

"From day one, when we first met them, the day of the tragedy, 22 of April, 2016, we've stayed in constant contact," said David Dickerson, victim advocate for the Pike County Prosecutor's Office.

Dickerson said he typically keeps families at arm's length, but in this case, he's wrapped his arms around them.

"We all became very close with this family," Dickerson said. "They're just the type of family you will draw close to. I've watched the family grow in strength. I've watched them entrust me. I've entrusted them."

Dickerson was with family members when arrests were made.

"Very hopeful and they were very over-joyous and celebratory the other night when we were all together, that Tuesday night during the arrests," Dickerson said.

He said the families were always tight, but he has watched the bond between the three families strengthen during the last couple of years... "

 

[Caylee Advocate]

It shouldn't be a problem if someone is willing to become a verified insider. It can be done without revealing their identity to the public. Only web site owner Tricia will know. Many case insiders have done the same here without problems.

Then I guess not much "hearsay" will drip out unless it is via private conversation to a very few posters I would trust. Yes, it is up to Tricia, not we regular posters. It's been this way for the 11 years I have been a member. But thanks for the concern .