OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #53

[Johnny B Bad]

I always thought Kenny was killed because he was there at the mentioned (by Lenny in MSM) confrontation between Chris and Billy and Jake. I think he jumped in on it and by doing so earned the hatred of Billy and Jake. Keep in mind they passed the homes of other Rhoden brothers and kin to get to Kenny's home but those still living brothers and kin was not in on the confrontation with Billy in which according to Rhoden kin Billy lost.

Make no mistake, this was a crime of hatred. The W's killed every Rhoden they hated including Kenny.

JMO

There where another brother and nephew that was close to Kenneths that night of the murders, lMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Does any of you sleuthers believe that Jake didn’t pull any trigger, (In Fear Of Failure Of Lie Detector Testing After The Murders) any criminal would know that Jake being an ex boyfriend and the past rumors of the abuse against HR was sure to come in to play, that if he got arrested the rest of the Wagners would have to insure their freedom, that he could pass the lie detector testing from LE, JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

Does any of you sleuthers believe that Jake didn’t pull any trigger, (In Fear Of Failure Of Lie Detector Testing After The Murders) any criminal would know that Jake being an ex boyfriend and the past rumors of the abuse against HR was sure to come in to play, that if he got arrested the rest of the Wagners would have to insure their freedom, that he could pass the lie detector testing from LE, JMO

IMO, JMO I don't believe for a minute JW didn't pull at least one trigger.
I won't even start on my belief that (MOO that) JW is a true narcissist and physcopath.

True N and P cab can pass a LDT because they actually are able to convince themselves that they are telling the truth.

JMO, MOO

 

[Betty P]

I remember. Do you think he has any business connections with FW and thats why he withdrew the reward.

He probably was afraid of a drug cartel or any parties associated with drugs trafficking. That motive was being pushed really hard by DeWine and BCI at the time. For some reason, DeWine & BCI were blaming the victims and surviving family then, making it all about drugs. I think they played a role in scaring off the Ruby guy.

Remember how LE was so reluctant to have a reward fund back then? Remember how they "forgot" for nearly 3 months to tell the news media and public about a reward fund through Crimestoppers. That still makes me angry.

Remember how DeWine fought the families so hard in awarding money from the victims of crime fund to help pay for the Rhoden family and HG's funeral and burial expenses? The poor funeral director was really going out on a limb to front the services, funeral, burial plots, hearses, etc. in hopes the state would come through. DeWine & BCI acted like they were having to compensate the victims out of their own pocket. JMO, that was a real low point for DeWine and BCI. Remember they still refused to help pay for funeral expenses for CR, Sr and KR because of the "grow op".

JMO, some things will not be forgiven or forgotten.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I remember. Do you think he has any business connections with FW and thats why he withdrew the reward.

I think he was worried that harm would fall onto his family, JMO

 

[Loomis124]

There were divers at FWF and Fred confirmed they were looking in bodies of H2O, albeit, small areas of H2O.
What do criminals usually throw into lakes, rivers, and ponds? Guns usually. They sink, where other items may not. So one guess I have is they were looking for weapons/items that would sink.

Also they were at the Etna cemetery bordering FWF property. Due to the fact they had metal detectors they may have been looking for weapons buried in the cemetery, guns would really alert a metal detector.

It is telling that Rita did not sign the custody documents. Why not ask her to sign? Well maybe Angela asked her but she refused. Also, it could be Angela didn't ask her because Angela knew she wouldn't do it or wouldn't approve, or Angela just wanted to keep her mom in the dark.

Because Rita did not sign the documents I don't think Angela would be giving out any hints to her that they got rid of evidence at FWF. I don't believe Angela could trust her mom with deadly secrets. She did not even know if her mom would or would not testify against them. She told her mom not to, that she did not have to do it.

Don't know about Fred, I think she would keep any and all deadly secrets but don't know when and how much she knew. She was right there during revenge talks in her own home which means she currently knows some secrets. How could she not?

I think she changed her story about knowing the Rhodens because she needs to distance herself from that entire family because she knows something she is uncomfortable knowing, a secret she is trying to "run" from.
...Opinions...

... " the truth is never far behind I've kept it hidden well... "
..." the secrets that I hide, will they grow cold?
How will they see? When will they learn? How will they know? "
... " the truth is never far behind they must be doing well... "

Madonna, At Close Range a true story, chilling theme song

Maybe John Doe signed the documents? AWs daddy. JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

He probably was afraid of a drug cartel or any parties associated with drugs trafficking. That motive was being pushed really hard by DeWine and BCI at the time. For some reason, DeWine & BCI were blaming the victims and surviving family then, making it all about drugs. I think they played a role in scaring off the Ruby guy.

Remember how LE was so reluctant to have a reward fund back then? Remember how they "forgot" for nearly 3 months to tell the news media and public about a reward fund through Crimestoppers. That still makes me angry.

Remember how DeWine fought the families so hard in awarding money from the victims of crime fund to help pay for the Rhoden family and HG's funeral and burial expenses? The poor funeral director was really going out on a limb to front the services, funeral, burial plots, hearses, etc. in hopes the state would come through. DeWine & BCI acted like they were having to compensate the victims out of their own pocket. JMO, that was a real low point for DeWine and BCI. Remember they still refused to help pay for funeral expenses for CR, Sr and KR because of the "grow op".

JMO, some things will not be forgiven or forgotten.

Will the State of Ohio pay the funds for the funerals now? Or will they let the Wagners waste it in any trick they can in court, JMO

 

[Dudly]

Does any of you sleuthers believe that Jake didn’t pull any trigger, (In Fear Of Failure Of Lie Detector Testing After The Murders) any criminal would know that Jake being an ex boyfriend and the past rumors of the abuse against HR was sure to come in to play, that if he got arrested the rest of the Wagners would have to insure their freedom, that he could pass the lie detector testing from LE, JMO

I have wondered if they purposely left Jake out of participating in the actual murders. They may have thought doing that would allow him to not be found guilty and get custody of SW. That may also be why he is all smiles in the hearings. They may not have realized he can be found guilty without being an actual participant. All my opinions only...

 

[Antimony]

I thought Polygraph tests were voluntary and anyway, not admissible in court?

 

[Betty P]

I thought Polygraph tests were voluntary and anyway, not admissible in court?

They aren't admissible.

I think JW participated along with the others. I think, with all the other planning and precautions, planting false leads, hacking of accounts, etc. the W's really didn't think they would be caught. They thought the power their family had in the county with LE, Junk and the courts, would allow them to dodge any investigation outside of answering a few questions. They were almost right, it worked for more than a year.

I still wonder if one or two people at least suspected JW, but kept quiet.

MOO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I wonder how long it took The Wagners to realize that the LE was looking at them and did they mess up, was the first time hiding the evidence sloppy? where they getting rid of evidence good enough, that probably drove them mad thinking about it, did the Wagners get to scared to go back to where they hidden the evidence that’s why the motel search in Jackson of the trash and the search of the Family Farms a few weeks ago, what’s your thought?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

One more thing I would like to ask for feedback is a few days after the murders it was said that a police had to be on the property 24/7 and that someone was sneaking thru the woods one later night, we talked about this before but instead of dropping something that night does anyone think the killers hid evidence that night and was trying to retrieve it, JMO

 

[Merrygirl]

I always thought Kenny was killed because he was there at the mentioned (by Lenny in MSM) confrontation between Chris and Billy and Jake. I think he jumped in on it and by doing so earned the hatred of Billy and Jake. Keep in mind they passed the homes of other Rhoden brothers and kin to get to Kenny's home but those still living brothers and kin was not in on the confrontation with Billy in which according to Rhoden kin Billy lost.

Make no mistake, this was a crime of hatred. The W's killed every Rhoden they hated including Kenny.

JMO

I agree that KR was killed for the reasons you mentioned above. However, I’m not convinced he was murdered last. My thoughts are that he was first. I believe the W4 came from somewhere on the FWF as Kenny’s trailer isn’t all that far from where BW used to live on FWF. I drove the distance from the Peterson farm to DR’s (first of the homes related to those murdered) on UHR and it was ~10 miles via highway. It makes more sense to me that he was silenced first because (1 he lived the closest to FWF and 2) they had to put a stop to him early or he could disrupt the other plans since he normally took early showers at CRsr. Also, it’s possible he may have been to sleep like midnightish if he had to work and get up really early. If we consider he was killed last but the others were sometime between ~2-5 then that runs too close into the time of the other murders and they risk KR waking up early and possibly seeing action on the surveillance cameras. I have attached a map that one of our sleuthers posted early on. Sorry I don’t remember who it was to give credit.

 

[Merrygirl]

I wonder how long it took The Wagners to realize that the LE was looking at them and did they mess up, was the first time hiding the evidence sloppy? where they getting rid of evidence good enough, that probably drove them mad thinking about it, did the Wagners get to scared to go back to where they hidden the evidence that’s why the motel search in Jackson of the trash and the search of the Family Farms a few weeks ago, what’s your thought?

JMOO, just searching the trash could give them DNA samples.

 

[Merrygirl]

One more thing I would like to ask for feedback is a few days after the murders it was said that a police had to be on the property 24/7 and that someone was sneaking thru the woods one later night, we talked about this before but instead of dropping something that night does anyone think the killers hid evidence that night and was trying to retrieve it, JMO

I’ve always wondered if W4 was trying to retrieve other surveillance cameras they thought LE didn’t know about. JMOO.

 

[Betty P]

I agree that KR was killed for the reasons you mentioned above. However, I’m not convinced he was murdered last. My thoughts are that he was first. I believe the W4 came from somewhere on the FWF as Kenny’s trailer isn’t all that far from where BW used to live on FWF. I drove the distance from the Peterson farm to DR’s (first of the homes related to those murdered) on UHR and it was ~10 miles via highway. It makes more sense to me that he was silenced first because (1 he lived the closest to FWF and 2) they had to put a stop to him early or he could disrupt the other plans since he normally took early showers at CRsr. Also, it’s possible he may have been to sleep like midnightish if he had to work and get up really early. If we consider he was killed last but the others were sometime between ~2-5 then that runs too close into the time of the other murders and they risk KR waking up early and possibly seeing action on the surveillance cameras. I have attached a map that one of our sleuthers posted early on. Sorry I don’t remember who it was to give credit.

Since the arrests, discovery of some evidence info and searches at FWF, I've switched to this POV, too. When the discovery showed LE searches of Mt Etna Rd, where Billy W and AW used to live, quite a few here realized the murder spree likely began and ended there that night. Not 100% sure, but it seems likely, especially as all thought KR was working the next day and he was an early riser.

Also wouldn't be surprised if they tried to come back to the property to retrieve something they left. Recall, JW was still tapping, hacking or surveilling someone up until the summer of 2017. He may have been picking up some info about LE and their investigation. Wouldn't it be wild if the info the BCI agent uncovered that he claimed cracked the case was JW hacking into some LEO's phone or computer? Kind of a stretch, but its possible.

 

[Cool Cats]

They aren't admissible.

I think JW participated along with the others. I think, with all the other planning and precautions, planting false leads, hacking of accounts, etc. the W's really didn't think they would be caught. They thought the power their family had in the county with LE, Junk and the courts, would allow them to dodge any investigation outside of answering a few questions. They were almost right, it worked for more than a year.

I still wonder if one or two people at least suspected JW, but kept quiet.

MOO

LM did, but didn't elaborate. I believe he is talking about S which means he suspected Jake of murder.

Question asked of LM by the Daily Mail, you can hear his British accent.

"Do you believe that the marijuana had something to do with the murders?"

Leonard Manley's immediate answer to that question:

"I don't know I think it was just road rage attack and maybe a child custody thing."

 

[Berrybell]

I agree that KR was killed for the reasons you mentioned above. However, I’m not convinced he was murdered last. My thoughts are that he was first. I believe the W4 came from somewhere on the FWF as Kenny’s trailer isn’t all that far from where BW used to live on FWF. I drove the distance from the Peterson farm to DR’s (first of the homes related to those murdered) on UHR and it was ~10 miles via highway. It makes more sense to me that he was silenced first because (1 he lived the closest to FWF and 2) they had to put a stop to him early or he could disrupt the other plans since he normally took early showers at CRsr. Also, it’s possible he may have been to sleep like midnightish if he had to work and get up really early. If we consider he was killed last but the others were sometime between ~2-5 then that runs too close into the time of the other murders and they risk KR waking up early and possibly seeing action on the surveillance cameras. I have attached a map that one of our sleuthers posted early on. Sorry I don’t remember who it was to give credit.

IMO I think KR was killed first. I have always believed they either needed something he had to gain access to CRsr, a key, cell phone, something. I don't disagree with anyone else's theory this what I have always thought. I feel like killing KR played a bigger part than we realize without seeing the evidence.

 

[Puzzles8]

I agree that KR was killed for the reasons you mentioned above. However, I’m not convinced he was murdered last. My thoughts are that he was first. I believe the W4 came from somewhere on the FWF as Kenny’s trailer isn’t all that far from where BW used to live on FWF. I drove the distance from the Peterson farm to DR’s (first of the homes related to those murdered) on UHR and it was ~10 miles via highway. It makes more sense to me that he was silenced first because (1 he lived the closest to FWF and 2) they had to put a stop to him early or he could disrupt the other plans since he normally took early showers at CRsr. Also, it’s possible he may have been to sleep like midnightish if he had to work and get up really early. If we consider he was killed last but the others were sometime between ~2-5 then that runs too close into the time of the other murders and they risk KR waking up early and possibly seeing action on the surveillance cameras. I have attached a map that one of our sleuthers posted early on. Sorry I don’t remember who it was to give credit.

You bring up a very good point. I think we all have naturally assumed the murders happened in the exact same sequence as the victims were found. Until more is known about the estimated TOD in the Autopsy Reports, we really can't assume anything.

I also think we all have assumed the murders (with the exception of CRsr) were very quick. Sadly, they may not have been.

JMO, MOO - not going any further down that road until there is evidence to support it.............

 

[Betty P]

You bring up a very good point. I think we all have naturally assumed the murders happened in the exact same sequence as the victims were found. Until more is known about the estimated TOD in the Autopsy Reports, we really can't assume anything.

I also think we all have assumed the murders (with the exception of CRsr) were very quick. Sadly, they may not have been.

JMO, MOO - not going any further down that road until there is evidence to support it.............

Agree. According to DeWine, we'll all be pretty shocked when we hear all the details and the reasoning behind it.