OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #56

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Cool Cats said:
Yup your right the Motion was filed December 14th 2018 and I was actually citing the State's response.

From Angie's Docket

12/14/2018 (32) DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REGARDING THE INADMISSIBILITY OF PRIOR TESTIMONY FROM A WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION FILED

The Court finds the State of Ohio opposes, at least in part, Defendant's Motions # 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, (32) 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, and 49

The Court therefore reserves ruling upon Defendant's Motions # 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15, 16, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, (32) 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, and 49 until the "non-substantive" motions filed in all of the related actions have been orally argued and submitted to the Court for decision.

These Motions have been ruled on,
the Docket explains how these Motions were ruled on:

# 1, 2, 12, 14, 17, 18 (appear in civilian clothes)
23, and 48
Click to expand...

Yeah, we discussed these back then and the fact that, like other standard DP defense motions, they were filed for some of the killers and not others. They are standard motions recommended by the state of Ohio's Public Defender's office. They even have templates for the motions that defense attorneys can download and complete for their clients.

The various defense teams seem to move at their own pace. Some are "hot dogs" and showboaters, others more slow and methodical.

ETA: It would be nice to see Judge Deering finally put a stop to some of the incessant delays and distractions by the hot dog defense attorneys. This has been going on waaay too long, its time to get these trials underway. They'll have plenty of opportunity to defend their clients then, instead of trying to get them exonerated in the pre-trial phase. JMO
 
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Betty P said:
Yeah, we discussed these back then and the fact that, like other standard DP defense motions, they were filed for some of the killers and not others. They are standard motions recommended by the state of Ohio's Public Defender's office. They even have templates for the motions that defense attorneys can download and complete for their clients.
Click to expand...

What is important to know which I am learning about is the 2 different types of Motions that Deering keeps mentioning.

Non-Substantive Motions are what you are mentioning. They are the standard common ones and are normally filed in death penalty cases in Ohio.
Non-Substantive Motions do not require evidence, they can be argued on written or oral arguments alone.

The more interesting ones are the Substantive Motions.
Substantive Motions are fact-specific to the defendant's case and require evidence to be submitted.

An example of Substantive Motions that are fact-specific and require evidence are these 4 Motions filed for Jake:

DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REQUESTING A PRETRIAL EVIDENTIARY HEARING TO DETERMINE THE ADMISSIBILITY OF BALLISTICS EVIDENCE AND OPINIONS

DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REQUESTING A PRETRIAL EVIDENTIARY HEARING TO DETERMINE THE ADMISSIBILITY OF SHOEPRINT EVIDENCE AND OPINIONS

DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REQUESTING A PRETRIAL EVIDENTIARY HEARING TO DETERMINE THE ADMISSIBILITY OF ANY WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS THE STATE INTENDS TO PRESENT IN ITS CASE IN CHIEF

DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REQUESTING A PRETRIAL EVIDENTIARY HEARING TO DETERMINE THE ADMISSIBILITY OF ANY NON-TESTIFYING CO-DEFENDANT STATEMENTS THE STATE INTENDS TO PRESENT IN ITS CASE IN CHIEF

What Is Substantial Evidence in Law?

What Is A Motion To Suppress Evidence?
 
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Jake

Upon agreement of the parties, another pre-trial hearing and motion hearing is scheduled in this action for Monday, September 21, 2020 from 9 o'clock a.m. to 4 o'clock p.m. and

Tuesday, September 22, 2020 from 9 o'clock to 12 o'clock noon.

I think all this time is scheduled because his 4 substantive motions need to be argued. My above post explains which 4 motions these are. This is my best guess on why so much time is scheduled.

Substantive Motions are fact-specific to the defendant's case and require evidence to be submitted.

ADMISSIBILITY OF BALLISTICS EVIDENCE
ADMISSIBILITY OF SHOEPRINT EVIDENCE
ADMISSIBILITY OF ANY WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS
ADMISSIBILITY OF ANY NON-TESTIFYING CO-DEFENDANT STATEMENTS
 
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  • 2018CR000155 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON
The Defendant's Motion No. 58 Motion For Bond Hearing and

Defendant's Motion No. 59 Motion For An Order Requiring The Prosecution To Provide A Transcript Of Audio Recordings It Intends To Introduce At Trial and

the State of Ohio's Motion Of The State of Ohio In A Capital Case And Pursuant To Statute To Hold The Defendant Without Bail are scheduled for oral hearing on

August 31, 2020, at 1:30 o'clock p.m.

08/24/2020 SUBPOENA ISSUED TO RYAN SCHEIDERER (TO BE SERVED BY COUNSEL) Attorney: NASH, JR, RICHARD M

08/25/2020 COSTS FOR NOTICES MAILED

08/27/2020 RETURN OF SUBPOENA -- RYAN SCHEIDERER SERVED PERSONALLY 8/25/20 BY COUNSEL
 
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Cool Cats said:
  • 2018CR000155 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON
The Defendant's Motion No. 58 Motion For Bond Hearing and

Defendant's Motion No. 59 Motion For An Order Requiring The Prosecution To Provide A Transcript Of Audio Recordings It Intends To Introduce At Trial and

the State of Ohio's Motion Of The State of Ohio In A Capital Case And Pursuant To Statute To Hold The Defendant Without Bail are scheduled for oral hearing on

August 31, 2020, at 1:30 o'clock p.m.

08/24/2020 SUBPOENA ISSUED TO RYAN SCHEIDERER (TO BE SERVED BY COUNSEL) Attorney: NASH, JR, RICHARD M

08/25/2020 COSTS FOR NOTICES MAILED

08/27/2020 RETURN OF SUBPOENA -- RYAN SCHEIDERER SERVED PERSONALLY 8/25/20 BY COUNSEL
Click to expand...

CC, I apologize, but is Motion 58 a bond hearing; then Motion 59 and the State's Motion both oral hearings? Very confusing. Thanks.
 
Loomis124 said:
CC, I apologize, but is Motion 58 a bond hearing; then Motion 59 and the State's Motion both oral hearings? Very confusing. Thanks.
Click to expand...
There is going to be an oral hearing on all 3 Motions.

1.) Oral arguments from the Defense on GW4's Bond Motion.
2.) Oral arguments from the Prosecutors explaining why they filed their Motion against granting him bond.
3.) And oral arguments on the Defense Motion for the Prosecution to provide a transcript of audio recordings. These are the audio recordings the Prosecution plans to let the jury hear. (Might be the revenge talk on it maybe).

The 3 specific Motions:

(#58) DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR BOND HEARING

MOTION OF THE STATE OF OHIO IN A CAPITAL CASE AND PURSUANT TO STATUTE TO HOLD THE DEFENDANT WITHOUT BAIL
(This Motion is in response to the Defendant's Motion for Bond filed for GW4 by his attorneys.)

(#59) DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR AN ORDER REQUIRING THE PROSECUTION TO PROVIDE A TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO RECORDINGS IT INTENDS TO INTRODUCE AT TRIAL
 
Cool Cats said:
There is going to be an oral hearing on all 3 Motions.

1.) Oral arguments from the Defense on GW4's Bond Motion.
2.) Oral arguments from the Prosecutors explaining why they filed their Motion against granting him bond.
3.) And oral arguments on the Defense Motion for the Prosecution to provide a transcript of audio recordings. These are the audio recordings the Prosecution plans to let the jury hear. (Might be the revenge talk on it maybe).

The 3 specific Motions:

(#58) DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR BOND HEARING

MOTION OF THE STATE OF OHIO IN A CAPITAL CASE AND PURSUANT TO STATUTE TO HOLD THE DEFENDANT WITHOUT BAIL
(This Motion is in response to the Defendant's Motion for Bond filed for GW4 by his attorneys.)

(#59) DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR AN ORDER REQUIRING THE PROSECUTION TO PROVIDE A TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO RECORDINGS IT INTENDS TO INTRODUCE AT TRIAL
Click to expand...
Let me guess, this will all be in chamber so will have to wait a few months more to hear it,
Or will they play everything in court on the 31st for all of us to hear?
 
Johnny B Bad said:
Let me guess, this will all be in chamber so will have to wait a few months more to hear it,
Or will they play everything in court on the 31st for all of us to hear?
Click to expand...

Opinion

The 3 Motions are scheduled for an Oral Hearing which usually means in Open Court (as far as I know). If the hearing is not continued like Billy's was then I think there is a good chance the families will get to come to Court and hear the arguments for themselves which they should be able to do in my opinion.

Yes it's always possible that for some reason the Motions will be argued in judge's chambers but then why not just seal the Motions like they did with those 2 others recently?

Bond Motions are usually done in Open Court and this is about GW4 getting Bond. To be honest I feel that when it comes to Bond for the Wagner's, that the local communities and families have a right to full transparency, the right to know exactly what is going on.

If we do get to hear all this on Monday then I expect it to be quite interesting. Especially to hear what reasons prosecutors give for denying bond and wanting the jury to hear recordings, of the Wagner's conversations I assume.

Regarding Billy, for Billy's Bond the Defense says he's innocent while the prosecution claims they have the evidence to prove all the Wagner's guilty.

"Billy Wagner had filed a motion requesting a reasonable bail be set last week, claiming none of the evidence in the case ties him to the murders .........

However, in a response to Wagner’s request, prosecutors wrote that the evidence proves the Wagners committed the murders."

I am sure that GW4's attorneys will also claim that none of the evidence in the case ties him to the murders .........

AG withdraws from Rhoden case, new details about Wagner-Rhoden relationship revealed
 
Cool Cats said:
Opinion

The 3 Motions are scheduled for an Oral Hearing which usually means in Open Court (as far as I know). If the hearing is not continued like Billy's was then I think there is a good chance the families will get to come to Court and hear the arguments for themselves which they should be able to do in my opinion.

Yes it's always possible that for some reason the Motions will be argued in judge's chambers but then why not just seal the Motions like they did with those 2 others recently?

Bond Motions are usually done in Open Court and this is about GW4 getting Bond. To be honest I feel that when it comes to Bond for the Wagner's, that the local communities and families have a right to full transparency, the right to know exactly what is going on.

If we do get to hear all this on Monday then I expect it to be quite interesting. Especially to hear what reasons prosecutors give for denying bond and wanting the jury to hear recordings, of the Wagner's conversations I assume.

Regarding Billy, for Billy's Bond the Defense says he's innocent while the prosecution claims they have the evidence to prove all the Wagner's guilty.

"Billy Wagner had filed a motion requesting a reasonable bail be set last week, claiming none of the evidence in the case ties him to the murders .........

However, in a response to Wagner’s request, prosecutors wrote that the evidence proves the Wagners committed the murders."

I am sure that GW4's attorneys will also claim that none of the evidence in the case ties him to the murders .........

AG withdraws from Rhoden case, new details about Wagner-Rhoden relationship revealed
Click to expand...

I'll believe it when I see it.
 
Loomis124 said:
I'll believe it when I see it.
Click to expand...
Oh you'll eventually be seeing things alright. They are getting to Substantive Motions now, they can't have all of them behind closed doors.

Angela's attorney said they wanted a fall 2020 trial but covid set them back. He lamented that the case is getting "long in the tooth" so if what he says is true I think Angela's trial will be by spring 2021 at the latest. 2 and 1/2 years is long enough to sit in jail.
 
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Cool Cats said:
Oh you'll eventually be seeing things alright. They are getting to Substantive Motions now, they can't have all of them behind closed doors.

Angela's attorney said they wanted a fall 2020 trial but covid set them back. He lamented that the case is getting "long in the tooth" so if what he says is true I think Angela's trial will be by spring 2021 at the latest. 2 and 1/2 years is long enough to sit in jail.
Click to expand...

If Angela's attorney said that, it's quite ironic. Defense attorneys have been dragging the case out as long as possible, even going so far as to ask the state to organize all the evidence for them and type up transcriptions of the recorded evidence.:rolleyes:
 
Cool Cats said:
Oh you'll eventually be seeing things alright. They are getting to Substantive Motions now, they can't have all of them behind closed doors.

Angela's attorney said they wanted a fall 2020 trial but covid set them back. He lamented that the case is getting "long in the tooth" so if what he says is true I think Angela's trial will be by spring 2021 at the latest. 2 and 1/2 years is long enough to sit in jail.
Click to expand...

I just don't know anymore. These hearings just seem to bog down more and more with time, now months between them. It just gets so frustrating that everything seems to be being kept in secret. I have to agree with Johnny (until I see differently)...Will these all be discussed in chambers, then we, the public, given hours to watch the camera on the door, then when they do finally come out, it'll be over in 10 minutes? I sure hope not.
 
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This is just such a complicated case.....multiple victims, multiple crime scenes, multiple defendants and a small army of witnesses and lawyers. It will probably be frustrating more often that not watching it wind it's way through the court system with all these different pieces in play.
 
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