OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #58

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Just had a thought. Who seems to be center of these investigations, yet the Prosecution keeps him on the backburner, making him s w e a t and build up more anger every day? Billy. Smile. Then George 4. Smile again. Anger seems to be coming out loud and clear. LOL.

Jake and Angela are the wise ones who seem to be able to keep their mouths shut.

JMO
 
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CIA Team Member said:
As time passes, memories fade. This could be part of the defense strategy. IMO
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True.

But Billy's isn't. To him, he has "paid his dues/2 years" and is ready to sign something and go back to his life as if nothing ever happened. JMO Somebody needs to lite a bottle rocket under him, JMO
 
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CIA Team Member said:
As time passes, memories fade. This could be part of the defense strategy. IMO
Click to expand...
I'm sure it is, Tiff. But speaking from experience, memories like these do not fade. They become stronger every day because you relive them every day, because you see, they aren't "normal" memories like those where death comes and goes naturally. These are the kind that you can never, ever forget or let go of. Guess, as they say, "you had to be there."

If you were, it will never go away, no matter how hard you try. Memories. Good and bad. The latter hurts forever.
Believe me, the victims' families will never forget how they felt that day and the loss they have suffered since. Those 3 children will have victims' advocates to speak how profoundly the loss of their murdered parents have affected them. I seriously doubt a single juror feels a single bit of remorse for any of the killers. JMO
 
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could we see Billy Wagner, who wants to have a speedy trial, actually plead out to get the death penalty off of the table and be given life without parole etc? Also, if that does indeed happen, Id demand that he has to stand in court, state exactly what led up to all of this, talk about his part in this, why it happened etc, in order to plead out or maybe do all of the above and has to testify at the other trials of all that took place etc
 
Loomis124 said:
I'm sure it is, Tiff. But speaking from experience, memories like these do not fade. They become stronger every day because you relive them every day, because you see, they aren't "normal" memories like those where death comes and goes naturally. These are the kind that you can never, ever forget or let go of. Guess, as they say, "you had to be there."

If you were, it will never go away, no matter how hard you try. Memories. Good and bad. The latter hurts forever.
Believe me, the victims' families will never forget how they felt that day and the loss they have suffered since. Those 3 children will have victims' advocates to speak how profoundly the loss of their murdered parents have affected them. I seriously doubt a single juror feels a single bit of remorse for any of the killers. JMO
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Agree. After 45 yrs my siblings and I still have distinct memories. Each of our "facts" have changed and we have to remind one another on the real facts. I don't know how BJM then JM have dealt with the aftermath on this magnitude after what they saw/discovered. Two of my siblings are stuck in that year in their development. There's no new normal, no closure. Again, I don't know HOW those two manage day to day.
 
TheRevWells said:
could we see Billy Wagner, who wants to have a speedy trial, actually plead out to get the death penalty off of the table and be given life without parole etc? Also, if that does indeed happen, Id demand that he has to stand in court, state exactly what led up to all of this, talk about his part in this, why it happened etc, in order to plead out or maybe do all of the above and has to testify at the other trials of all that took place etc
Click to expand...

Excellent suggestion, and I Agree! However, I will believe any plea out when I see it. It just won't happen, IMO.
 
Loomis124 said:
"As previously reported, the case against Edward Wagner may prove key to the prosecution in all of the Rhoden murders."

Past suspect behaviors, grisly murder scene photos may play parts in Rhoden trials - Portsmouth Daily Times

I think this is why Jake's trial will be first.
Click to expand...

I think Jake's trial will be first because most of the murder kit purchases were done with his Rewards Card, he has the most motive (as father) and had the relationship with Hanna, has an extra charge against him (Count 23), has a family gun list on his phone, has a photo on his phone showing him holding the same type of gun used in the murders - Walther Colt 1911.22.

He had the most access to Rhoden properties including keys from when he lived with them and would be the most familiar with the dogs, security cameras, how to enter the homes, the layouts of the homes - including Dana's for child visitation access - and would know the outside layouts of the properties including obscure placement of trail cams. I do not believe all 4 Wagners were equally knowledgeable about the 4 Rhoden properties.

Point is, I think they have the most evidence against him out of the 4 and that he is the one they have the best chance of securing a conviction against.

You would want to take your strongest case into court first and if you secure a guilty verdict it could also pressure the other defendants into considering pleas.

Billy can complain and write motions all he wants demanding a speedy trial but he will have to wait in line for his son to go first. Canepa was pretty clear.

... 2 Cents ...
 
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CIA Team Member said:
Agree. After 45 yrs my siblings and I still have distinct memories. Each of our "facts" have changed and we have to remind one another on the real facts. I don't know how BJM then JM have dealt with the aftermath on this magnitude after what they saw/discovered. Two of my siblings are stuck in that year in their development. There's no new normal, no closure. Again, I don't know HOW those two manage day to day.
Click to expand...

I'm so sorry for your siblings and you. What an awful state to be stuck in. My case is similar but nothing as bad as yours. May God bless all of you.
 
Cool Cats said:
I think Jake's trial will be first because most of the murder kit purchases were done with his Rewards Card, he has the most motive (as father) and had the relationship with Hanna, has an extra charge against him (Count 23), has a family gun list on his phone, has a photo on his phone showing him holding the same type of gun used in the murders - Walther Colt 1911.22.

He had the most access to Rhoden properties including keys from when he lived with them and would be the most familiar with the dogs, security cameras, how to enter the homes, the layouts of the homes - including Dana's for child visitation access - and would know the outside layouts of the properties including obscure placement of trail cams. I do not believe all 4 Wagners were equally knowledgeable about the 4 Rhoden properties.

Point is, I think they have the most evidence against him out of the 4 and that he is the one they have the best chance of securing a conviction against.

You would want to take your strongest case into court first and if you secure a guilty verdict it could also pressure the other defendants into considering pleas.



... 2 Cents ...
Click to expand...

Yes, but....

AW facilitated most of the purchases, with Jake and George carrying out their fare share, according to Agent Scheiderer's testimony.

By the way, I have a Bass Pro Rewards Card. It is NOT a credit card. It is a Rewards card like a Walgreens, Kroger, Big Lots, Kohls, Target, etc. card. You simply earn discounts when you rack up enough points and/or get current discounts at the time of your purchase. I highly doubt that George was using Jake's "credit card" for purchasing his scope. Just using a rewards card to rack up points. For example, my sister has purchases, but doesn't have a rewards card when we go through the checkout. I simply let her use mine. Gives me more points toward future purchases. In the Wagner's case, they could rack up discounts quickly using the same rewards card. Rewards card does not = credit card. JMO
 
Loomis124 said:
Yes, but....

AW facilitated most of the purchases, with Jake and George carrying out their fare share, according to Agent Scheiderer's testimony.

By the way, I have a Bass Pro Rewards Card. It is NOT a credit card. It is a Rewards card like a Walgreens, Kroger, Big Lots, Kohls, Target, etc. card. You simply earn discounts when you rack up enough points and/or get current discounts at the time of your purchase. I highly doubt that George was using Jake's "credit card" for purchasing his scope. Just using a rewards card to rack up points. For example, my sister has purchases, but doesn't have a rewards card when we go through the checkout. I simply let her use mine. Gives me more points toward future purchases. In the Wagner's case, they could rack up discounts quickly using the same rewards card. Rewards card does not = credit card. JMO
Click to expand...

Ok, I get it. My dad has a Credit Card that gives him rewards points and he gets money put back on the card. I thought that's what Jake had.

But I have a Kroger Card to get grocery discounts and those types of Rewards Cards are common everywhere in all types of businesses etc....
So your saying this is the card Jake had and not a Credit Card.

However, if the Rewards Card was used in multiple stores then I am not sure %100 that the Rewards Card was not a Credit Card because you use a Credit Card in multiple stores. Obviously I need to go back to my notes and/or listen to the Scheiderer Testimony again.

Sorry a bit confused... o_O
 
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Cool Cats said:
I think Jake's trial will be first because most of the murder kit purchases were done with his Rewards Card, he has the most motive (as father) and had the relationship with Hanna, has an extra charge against him (Count 23), has a family gun list on his phone, has a photo on his phone showing him holding the same type of gun used in the murders - Walther Colt 1911.22.

He had the most access to Rhoden properties including keys from when he lived with them and would be the most familiar with the dogs, security cameras, how to enter the homes, the layouts of the homes - including Dana's for child visitation access - and would know the outside layouts of the properties including obscure placement of trail cams. I do not believe all 4 Wagners were equally knowledgeable about the 4 Rhoden properties.

Point is, I think they have the most evidence against him out of the 4 and that he is the one they have the best chance of securing a conviction against.

You would want to take your strongest case into court first and if you secure a guilty verdict it could also pressure the other defendants into considering pleas.

Billy can complain and write motions all he wants demanding a speedy trial but he will have to wait in line for his son to go first. Canepa was pretty clear.

... 2 Cents ...
Click to expand...

I agree with with your point of view overall.

Below from your post:
Billy can complain and write motions all he wants demanding a speedy trial but he will have to wait in line for his son to go first. Canepa was pretty clear.

If he signed an extended waiver then I agree. If not, I'm not sure. I think first he would have to get over the hurdle of seeing if the judge will accept his Pro Se OR get his attorney to file the motion. My guess is the state has done the checks and balances on this and the last thing they would risk is his clock running out. If he's under a longer extension then the state has the upper hand on getting their way and moving Jake first. I think we will learn more on this in the coming weeks so until then.. it's another waiting scenario. JMO MOO etc etc
 
TheRevWells said:
could we see Billy Wagner, who wants to have a speedy trial, actually plead out to get the death penalty off of the table and be given life without parole etc? Also, if that does indeed happen, Id demand that he has to stand in court, state exactly what led up to all of this, talk about his part in this, why it happened etc, in order to plead out or maybe do all of the above and has to testify at the other trials of all that took place etc
Click to expand...

It's allowed, yes. Similar to what AW's mother RN did. They usually have to testify or otherwise assist the prosecution before the judge rules on a reduced sentence. Judge Deering allowed RN to be released from house arrest, IIRC, but the decision on her reduced sentence comes after the trials.
 
Tiff23fr said:
I agree with with your point of view overall.

Below from your post:
Billy can complain and write motions all he wants demanding a speedy trial but he will have to wait in line for his son to go first. Canepa was pretty clear.

If he signed an extended waiver then I agree. If not, I'm not sure. I think first he would have to get over the hurdle of seeing if the judge will accept his Pro Se OR get his attorney to file the motion. My guess is the state has done the checks and balances on this and the last thing they would risk is his clock running out. If he's under a longer extension then the state has the upper hand on getting their way and moving Jake first. I think we will learn more on this in the coming weeks so until then.. it's another waiting scenario. JMO MOO etc etc
Click to expand...

Maybe Billy's speedy trial waiver is an "extended waiver" as you mention and this is why his attorney said this:

"..no issue, the motion will be rescinded...the motion is going to be vacated before a hearing can be held."
 
Cool Cats said:
Ok, I get it. My dad has a Credit Card that gives him rewards points and he gets money put back on the card. I thought that's what Jake had.

But I have a Kroger Card to get grocery discounts and those types of Rewards Cards are common everywhere in all types of businesses etc....
So your saying this is the card Jake had and not a Credit Card.

However, if the Rewards Card was used in multiple stores then I am not sure %100 that the Rewards Card was not a Credit Card because you use a Credit Card in multiple stores. Obviously I need to go back to my notes and/or listen to the Scheiderer Testimony again.

Sorry a bit confused... o_O
Click to expand...

I have a Keychain full of rewards cards, discounts cards, but none are swiped as a credit card.
Two totally different things. Call Bass Pro. They will explain. Scheiderer said a rewards card, not a credit card. JMO from having a rewards card, myself, but I do not have a Bass Pro credit card. A rewards card and a credit card are totally different. One is used for reward points, one is used to charge purchases (a form of payment.) The other places the Wagners used rewards cards were at auto parts places, etc. Like Auto Zone, Advanced Auto Parts, etc., simply rewards points, but they could have had credit cards, too if these businesses offered them. Still have to be presented separately IMO.
 
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Loomis124 said:
I have a Keychain full of rewards cards, discounts cards, but none are swiped as a credit card.
Two totally different things. Call Bass Pro. They will explain. Scheiderer said a rewards card, not a credit card. JMO from having a rewards card, myself, but I do not have a Bass Pro credit card. A rewards card and a credit card are totally different. One is used for reward points, one is used to charge purchases (a form of payment.) The other places the Wagners used rewards cards were at auto parts places, etc. Like Auto Zone, Advanced Auto Parts, Peebles, etc., simply rewards points, but they could have had credit cards, too if these businesses offered them. Still have to be presented separately IMO.
Click to expand...

I have a Speedway credit card, it gives me speedy points, redeemable for things in the store. It can be used at other stores, and I receive points for these purchases. All on one card. Looks like Bass Pro Card works the same way. Both are MasterCard, and rewards card all in one.

Speedy Rewards Mastercard - Speedway

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/points
 
Tiff23fr said:
I agree with with your point of view overall.

Below from your post:
Billy can complain and write motions all he wants demanding a speedy trial but he will have to wait in line for his son to go first. Canepa was pretty clear.

If he signed an extended waiver then I agree. If not, I'm not sure. I think first he would have to get over the hurdle of seeing if the judge will accept his Pro Se OR get his attorney to file the motion. My guess is the state has done the checks and balances on this and the last thing they would risk is his clock running out. If he's under a longer extension then the state has the upper hand on getting their way and moving Jake first. I think we will learn more on this in the coming weeks so until then.. it's another waiting scenario. JMO MOO etc etc
Click to expand...

If Billy is truly foolish enough to stick with wanting to represent himself Pro Se, he is the one to decide that, not the Judge.

Our Sixth Amendment affords us that right. IIRC, only verified incompetency can override your decision. IANAL
 
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