OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #58

[Ann99]

I think I speak for alot of posters in general.

We want to know why <modsnip> did you killers drive the extra 15 miles to Left Fork Road to kill Kenny. For crying out loud why on earth involve Kenny?
I have seen the most speculation and questions directed in this case about Kenny.

Thousands of posts, through the last 4 and a half years since the murders, speculating on why was he targeted?

I think Gary was targeted only because he was living with Chris at the time. I think Hannah G was targeted only because she was living with Frankie.
And Camera specifically said the Wagner's killed all the witnesses.

So the biggest question I want answered is why Kenny?

If I were on the Jury <modsnip>, I would want to know. And if I were on the Jury I would push to know. Writing the judge, whatever....

Maybe the answer will come out at trial but if not I would have a problem with that if I were on the Jury. Think of Kendra, God Bless Her.

By the way, Kendra herself thought she would have been murdered along with her dad if she had stayed that night with Hanna. Imagine what this young lady has endured. <modsnip>

Kendra Rhoden: I could have been the ninth victim in Pike Co. family massacre

Yes, I would need to know that too.
I think of Kenny and his big smile. So sad.
If Jake is the first trial, do you think it will be mentioned in away that we will know WHY. ??

 

[Ann99]

Duplicate.

 

[Ann99]

I believe they have evidence that he was targeted for a specific reason. It could be from messages or recorded conversations. I think that has not been brought in court because it was not necessary for what the hearings were about.... My opinion only...

I think you are correct.
It could be for reasons as you suggest, or as simple as...
W's may have feared someone (of 7 people) on UHR would be able to make one quick phone call to Kenny for help.
A reason like that would suggest he was killed first.

 

[Betty P]

I will self report to see if this is against TOS.

Just trying to generate conversation - something different.
I'm wondering how many on this thread (including and especially those who only read and never or rarely post ) have served on a jury. No need to say if you have, it is just that I did. It was a long time ago. A drug case.
Pretty short presentation by the prosecutor.
She thought it was a slam dunk.
The entire time the case was going on in the courtroom - only half a day- I had a question in my mind and I was very frustrated that the prosecutor never addressed what I was silently wondering about. Didn't matter. Other jurors were adamant, NOT Guilty. To this day I feel awkward that I was on a jury that put a drug dealer back on the street.
At least that was my final feeling/thought on the matter.


I would like to hear from posters (whatever could be within TOS) just pretend you have the serious duty of serving on a jury.

What is the one question or fact that you would need to have brought forward or answered in these Wagner Trials.
What would you be anxiously waiting to see or hear?

What would you be waiting and waiting for days on end, to hear from the prosecutor or from a witness, or see introduced as evidence, etc. before you could 'resolve' it all in your own mind.

What is bothering you, if anything? What do you think is missing?

Or,

What is the one fact (evidence) that if brought forward, would make you certain that you could render a guilty verdict?

Most of you have a good grasp of TOS, ( i am usually unsure) so respond if you think it is ok.

Would like to hear from those faithful readers who do not post often.
What are those quiet ones thinking?

Based on the evidence that has been revealed so far - in testimony, discovery, etc. - I would have no problem rendering a verdict of guilty.

• Custody motive is strong. Broken relationships, jealousy and custody disagreements are very common motivators for males murdering a former partner and their family members. Plenty of evidence of violence and escalation behaviors just prior to the murders
• Digital / social media evidence appears very strong WRT planning, forging of custody documents, researching and purchasing the tools the killers used. Indications are there's much to indicate threats, planning, cover up, etc.
  
• Crime scene evidence - we aren't privvy to all those details yet, but it seems very incriminating, particularly DNA evidence
• Ballistics evidence - also strong, linking the murders to at least 2 weapons owned by the Wagners
• Video evidence, including but not limited to shoe print evidence
  
• Recorded conversations

I was also very impressed with Special Prosecutor Canepa's questioning of Agent Ryan Scheiderer at GW4's recent hearing. She did an excellent job of helping him reveal all of the evidence that points to GW4's involvement in the murders. It was very clear and detailed, easy for jurors to understand. She will have no difficulty dealing with defense attorneys and keeping the jury focused on and understanding the state's evidence against the Wagners.

What I want most to see is how they organized and carried out these murders and why. So few details have been made public, its difficult to imagine how they accomplished the massacre in such a short period of time. I suspect we'll learn that mistakes were made, incriminating evidence was left, etc. I really want to hear why the Wagners felt this massacre was necessary to achieve their goals. I doubt we'll learn that, or what we hear will not make sense to normal people.

I'd also like to be assured that all the people who took risks to offer tips, testimony, etc. about the murders and the killers will have protection. I really hope they and the surviving family members don't have to live their lives in fear. They've suffered enough.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Sluthers we have heard a lot of information so far but not all of it, BCI Detective said on the witness stand that Jake owned a 22 caliber pistol, GW4 was a Glock man, and a SKS 30 caliber Riffle was used, that doesn’t mean that each of these Wagners pulled the trigger on that gun that was on the list as theirs, myself I think GW4 used the Glock that night, I think that Billy had the SKS at Big Chris mobile home and the 22 pistol was shared between the 3 Wagners, I wonder why Angela Wagners shoes are listed in the discovery, I really think that she was there that night AND WHAT CALIBER GUN KILLED KENNETH???? So Sluthers you can see a lot more information is to come

 

[Betty P]

I think I speak for alot of posters in general.

We want to know why <modsnip> did you killers drive the extra 15 miles to Left Fork Road to kill Kenny. For crying out loud why on earth involve Kenny?
I have seen the most speculation and questions directed in this case about Kenny.

Thousands of posts, through the last 4 and a half years since the murders, speculating on why was he targeted?

I think Gary was targeted only because he was living with Chris at the time. I think Hannah G was targeted only because she was living with Frankie.
And Camera specifically said the Wagner's killed all the witnesses.

So the biggest question I want answered is why Kenny?

If I were on the Jury <modsnip>, I would want to know. And if I were on the Jury I would push to know. Writing the judge, whatever....

Maybe the answer will come out at trial but if not I would have a problem with that if I were on the Jury. Think of Kendra, God Bless Her.

By the way, Kendra herself thought she would have been murdered along with her dad if she had stayed that night with Hanna. Imagine what this young lady has endured. <modsnip>

Kendra Rhoden: I could have been the ninth victim in Pike Co. family massacre

If you follow trials and murder cases here on WS or in the news, the killers never answer the "why" question in a way that makes sense to normal people. Many are narcissistic sociopaths who never consider anything beyond their own wants and needs. They see the world through a different lens, one that doesn't value the feelings or lives of others.

ETA: I also think the last thing I would want to hear at the trial would be arguments attempting to blame or frame the victims or their family members for the murders. That said, I hope the defense attorney attempt that strategy. It would guarantee a guilty verdict.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

If you follow trials and murder cases here on WS or in the news, the killers never answer the "why" question in a way that makes sense to normal people. Many are narcissistic sociopaths who never consider anything beyond their own wants and needs. They see the world through a different lens, one that doesn't value the feelings or lives of others.

ETA: I also think the last thing I would want to hear at the trial would be arguments attempting to blame or frame the victims or their family members for the murders. That said, I hope the defense attorney attempt that strategy. It would guarantee a guilty verdict.

BP
I think the Wagners has already put blame on the Rhodens in the social media, the news, the LE and in the eyes of the public, like Charles Reader said the lies all those lies the Wagners told, then what happened 10 days after the Wagners arrested someone calls anonymous complaints in on Sheriff Reader, yes I can see the Wagners thought they ran Pike County, JMO
One thing about it, Poor Little Hannah Gilley had to be killed like an animal’s for no Dam reason and to shoot that little girl in the face five time was a statement to the other Gilley’s to back of of custody of the new born baby girl , JMO

 

[Ann99]

Sluthers we have heard a lot of information so far but not all of it, BCI Detective said on the witness stand that Jake owned a 22 caliber pistol, GW4 was a Glock man, and a SKS 30 caliber Riffle was used, that doesn’t mean that each of these Wagners pulled the trigger on that gun that was on the list as theirs, myself I think GW4 used the Glock that night, I think that Billy had the SKS at Big Chris mobile home and the 22 pistol was shared between the 3 Wagners, I wonder why Angela Wagners shoes are listed in the discovery, I really think that she was there that night AND WHAT CALIBER GUN KILLED KENNETH???? So Sluthers you can see a lot more information is to come

JohnnyBBad, your thoughts on who used what gun could be right.
The part about sharing the 22 is a little confusing to me.
Do you mean sharing as - a different W used the 22 at each house?
I guess that could "confuse" forensics somewhat - a different angle, different trajectory, from house to house, yet same gun.
I have to admit, the weapon info. doesn't stay with me.
I can't use it to make assumptions and have a hard time remembering the details without notes. .

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The temperance problem with Billy makes me think he could pull the trigger on women and a young boy faster then the two brothers, but someone covered Big Chris up with a blanket/Sheet for some reason and if you ever loot that act up of killers, it is because they knew the victim and didn’t want to see what they did to the victim it anymore it is just odd, Jake has to be a severe sociopath to do what he did if he was the one using the 22 caliber pistol he sets in court like he doesn’t have a worry about anything, he smiles and laughs while he is setting there facing death roll, the the ways the victims where shot in the head is and was severe over kill, JMO

 

[Betty P]

Jake has to be a severe sociopath to do what he did if he was the one using the 22 caliber pistol he sets in court like he doesn’t have a worry about anything, he smiles and laughs while he is setting there facing death

That's the way sociopaths always behave. The other 4 Wagners have done the same. Especially disturbing is Billy Wagner, who seems to think there's nothing wrong with what he did. His belligerence and defiance are disturbing, making it easy to see how he could have helped kill 8 innocent people with infant and toddler children lying in bed with them. He's a monster. The ones who seem sorry or sad are only feeling that way because they were caught.

 

[OhioBlues]

I want to know if all 4 were at the scenes or if 1 stayed home. If 1 stayed home but did VERY little to assist then I might not judge them as harshly as I would the others if I was on that jury.

I want to know who/what happened at FR's and with CR2 because it is especially heinous.

I served on a 3 day jury and I wouldn't vote guilty unless I believed the person was guilty beyond reasonable doubt (not all doubt but beyond all reasonable doubt).

It will be interesting to hear what the defense case is for each person.

 

[Betty P]

BP
I think the Wagners has already put blame on the Rhodens in the social media, the news, the LE and in the eyes of the public, like Charles Reader said the lies all those lies the Wagners told, then what happened 10 days after the Wagners arrested someone calls anonymous complaints in on Sheriff Reader, yes I can see the Wagners thought they ran Pike County, JMO
One thing about it, Poor Little Hannah Gilley had to be killed like an animal’s for no Dam reason and to shoot that little girl in the face five time was a statement to the other Gilley’s to back of of custody of the new born baby girl , JMO

Yes, we saw that here in the early days after the murders JMO. At least many of us who followed the case here from the beginning surmised - that the real perps planted a lot of misinformation about the victims and their family members here and elsewhere in social media. That's why WS is always careful about what people are allowed to post. We pay close attention here as the trial dates grow closer.

 

[Gracie55]

I think you are correct.
It could be for reasons as you suggest, or as simple as...
W's may have feared someone (of 7 people) on UHR would be able to make one quick phone call to Kenny for help.
A reason like that would suggest he was killed first.

It seems like they could have called for help from the rest of the Manley clan who lived just down the road, closer than Kenny. Kenny must have known something that would incriminate them, or was part of the fight that might have enraged the senior W. I agree Kendra likely would've died if she had spent the night. I think Hannah G was targeted because of her brother dating Hanna R. It's fortunate more did not die, imo. I'm anxious to hear the evidence. Ws played this like it was a game to them, Very disturbing to know humans with such a flawed outlook exist.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

There is going to be more come out from those autopsy reports, LE was to secretive about the family murders reports, JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I guess one of the things I would like answered is... what was the reason these murders had to done before a certain date? I remember there was discussion early on about it but for the life of me I can't find it now.

I have some idea but since it involves one of the innocent little ones I am not willing to openly post my thoughts on here.

Another thing I would like answered is...where were those little ones while these brutal murders were taking place? I can only hope and pray they were out of sight and heard nothing. It sickens me to say this, but hopefully they were placed back with their momma's later (even then would be horrendous) Thank God they didn't physically harm the kids!

 

[Caylee Advocate]

There is going to be more come out from those autopsy reports, LE was to secretive about the family murders reports, JMO

I for one am glad they kept the autopsies out of the media. It was hard enough for those families to have to learn the details of their loved ones murders, so I applaud the State for fighting to keep the public from knowing as well. JMO

 

[Dudly]

I for one am glad they kept the autopsies out of the media. It was hard enough for those families to have to learn the details of their loved ones murders, so I applaud the State for fighting to keep the public from knowing as well. JMO

It would be interesting to know what was redacted and why. I can understand the families not wanting them released. I think enough will come out in the trials.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

How many people that where friends of the Rhodens , family of the Rhodens and listed on the discovery that are dead now???? JMO

 

[Betty P]

I for one am glad they kept the autopsies out of the media. It was hard enough for those families to have to learn the details of their loved ones murders, so I applaud the State for fighting to keep the public from knowing as well. JMO

I agree, I'm glad the details of the AR's have been kept out of the news media. OTOH, I think the governor's actions went too far. Under the old system, the AR's would have been made available to certain members of the news media - like Columbus Dispatch, Cincinnati Inquirer, Dayton Daily News, etc. to view on a limited basis (no ability to copy, etc.) They would then report information from the AR's per guidance from investigators. This was SOP in the past and would have worked ok in this case.

IDK, maybe DeWine was concerned about being unable to control big media organizations outside of Ohio. But the Ohio Supreme Court decision was going overboard and, though IANAL, it may not stand up to future legal challenges. The way it stands, it sets a very bad precedent for limiting government transparency.

 

[Cool Cats]

I want to know if all 4 were at the scenes or if 1 stayed home. If 1 stayed home but did VERY little to assist then I might not judge them as harshly as I would the others if I was on that jury.

I want to know who/what happened at FR's and with CR2 because it is especially heinous.

I served on a 3 day jury and I wouldn't vote guilty unless I believed the person was guilty beyond reasonable doubt (not all doubt but beyond all reasonable doubt).

It will be interesting to hear what the defense case is for each person.

Sorry for my last post.

I would also like to know the differences that may come out between the 4 different defendants and get what you mean by might not judge as harshly.

Again sorry about my former post, I get way too emotional sometimes over this Case, no disrespect meant towards you in any way whatsoever.