GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #60

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Motions 42 and 43 discussing now - Daubert hearing on shoe print and ballistics

State doesn't have the firearm, but shell casings, some found 2 yrs later on client's property. Said its unproven that firing pin makes unique marks on shell casings

Says it should be done prior to trial, not during. Can't unring bell if jurors hear it during trial.

Same for shoe print evidence. State doesn't have the actual shoe.

He says they're comparing it to a shoe purchased in Florida comparing to Walmart shoe in Waverly.

He says potentially 2 or 3 other Daubert hearings.

So, arguing against ballistics because shell casings were found on Peterson Rd property 2 yrs later.

AC -

They've made same responses. They're not entitled to Daubert hearing. US Supreme Court has ruled ballistics evidence is reliable science and relevant.

Defense questioned shoe expert, but AC says he is very qualified expert, gives examples. Well established field - study of these two kinds of evidence.

Just because its a death penalty case doesn't mean there's a new standard for evidence. If court does grant a Daubert hearing, get them all done at once so experts only have to fly into town once.

Defense argues back about ballistics fine points.

Deering says he's not sure if other similar motions have been filed. If so, he will have them all scheduled for the same day.

Defense - Motion 45

Reserve ruling, if it becomes an issue, they will put prosecution on notice based on specific examples.

Defense keeps saying there were 8000 files, AC says 1400
AC clarifying about transcripts, recordings - there was an agreement that these were only recordings from 2017 and 2018 - interception recordings. They have no intention of using or transcribing interview recordings. The interception recordings were sometimes difficult to hear.

AC differs with defense argument that they (defense) has limited resources. Prosecution has much smaller staff and resources compared to all 4 defense teams.

They have all recordings - got them in July 2019. A year ago gave them summary of important parts they might use. That's where the 1400 came from.

Other attorney complaining about reasonable notice. Complaining that state extended deadlines for other act evidence. Claims state ignores some of this other act evidence. Bitching because they provided it 5 months late. Wahhhh.

She doesn't like phrases in "other act evidence". Complained about 35 violations by state. :rolleyes: Will be filing objections to 35 acts of evidence.

AC

State gives them notice of the general nature of other acts of evidence. State has met that burden. Reasonableness is ok. A week in advance of trial has been considered reasonable in federal courts to introduce other acts evidence. If they want to object to all 35, they can do that, and if they do, state will respond

Billy's attorney

She says yes they will file objections to all 35 acts.
Mark talking about another hearing?

Billy's attorney says the state wants to take a photograph of one of Billy's tattoos. Jail Billy is in asked for a court order. AC prepared an order, Mark agrees.

Judge Deering asking Billy W the standard questions about has he had access to his attorneys, etc. Nothing else he wishes to say. Attorney says Billy is frustrated there's no trial date, tired of sitting in jail. Atty hopes the Daubert hearing, etc. will help Billy understand that his trial date will be set soon.

Attorney says Billy is very intelligent, he understands dynamics and he will let them know when he objects to something.

JMO, Billy showing some attitude and swagger today.
 
I'm still not clear what year/s the boys were driving their own semi or driving for other carriers. Any ideas? Were the boys also driving in AK to pick up extra $$?

Trying to figure out possible sources of income.

That whole truck driving thing has been a mystery with everything else. Did they own the truck? Were they independent haulers? Whom did they haul for or drive for? From when to when did they do this? Why did they stop?
 
I'm still not clear what year/s the boys were driving their own semi or driving for other carriers. Any ideas? Were the boys also driving in AK to pick up extra $$?

Trying to figure out possible sources of income.

That whole truck driving thing has been a mystery with everything else. Did they own the truck? Were they independent haulers? Whom did they haul for or drive for? From when to when did they do this? Why did they stop?
 
That whole truck driving thing has been a mystery with everything else. Did they own the truck? Were they independent haulers? Whom did they haul for or drive for? From when to when did they do this? Why did they stop?

I get the impression they may have had their own truck possibly registered under Billy's DOT #. JMO

I worked on my family's farm as well as drove an eighteen-wheeler, which I share with my Brother.

Court docs: Suspect filed for custody of child at heart of Pike County investigation days after slayings
 
I was wondering the same. I haven’t found a DOT number publicly registered to Jake or GIV so its possible others trucks. Edit to add: or they ran under Billys name/number

Billys was revoked from the Federal List 10/25/16 (However, it was registered to Peterson RD)

GEORGE WAGNER III

260 PETERSON RD
PEEBLES , OH 45660
New Entrant Revoked - Refusal of Audit/No Contact 10-25-2016 INACTIVE

https://li-public.fmcsa.dot.gov/LIVIEW/pkg_oos_process.prc_list?pv_vpath=LIVIEW&s_state=OHUS

I recall trying to find evidence of a trucking business years ago but couldn't find anything definite...
 
Did I just hear Billy's attorney state - Billy is a unique personality and a "very intelligent person"?

There goes the 7th grade education defense...
Yep, that's what the attorney said. Of course, that was right after the attorney had to remind BW to say "Your Honor" when speaking to the judge. I assume the attorney was trying to smooth over with the judge about BW trying to file his own motions and then refile his own motions when his own attorney tried to stop it.
 
Motions 42 and 43 discussing now - Daubert hearing on shoe print and ballistics

State doesn't have the firearm, but shell casings, some found 2 yrs later on client's property. Said its unproven that firing pin makes unique marks on shell casings

Says it should be done prior to trial, not during. Can't unring bell if jurors hear it during trial.

Same for shoe print evidence. State doesn't have the actual shoe.

He says they're comparing it to a shoe purchased in Florida comparing to Walmart shoe in Waverly.

He says potentially 2 or 3 other Daubert hearings.

So, arguing against ballistics because shell casings were found on Peterson Rd property 2 yrs later.

AC -

They've made same responses. They're not entitled to Daubert hearing. US Supreme Court has ruled ballistics evidence is reliable science and relevant.

Defense questioned shoe expert, but AC says he is very qualified expert, gives examples. Well established field - study of these two kinds of evidence.

Just because its a death penalty case doesn't mean there's a new standard for evidence. If court does grant a Daubert hearing, get them all done at once so experts only have to fly into town once.

Defense argues back about ballistics fine points.

Deering says he's not sure if other similar motions have been filed. If so, he will have them all scheduled for the same day.

Defense - Motion 45

Reserve ruling, if it becomes an issue, they will put prosecution on notice based on specific examples.

Defense keeps saying there were 8000 files, AC says 1400
AC clarifying about transcripts, recordings - there was an agreement that these were only recordings from 2017 and 2018 - interception recordings. They have no intention of using or transcribing interview recordings. The interception recordings were sometimes difficult to hear.

AC differs with defense argument that they (defense) has limited resources. Prosecution has much smaller staff and resources compared to all 4 defense teams.

They have all recordings - got them in July 2019. A year ago gave them summary of important parts they might use. That's where the 1400 came from.

Other attorney complaining about reasonable notice. Complaining that state extended deadlines for other act evidence. Claims state ignores some of this other act evidence. Bitching because they provided it 5 months late. Wahhhh.

She doesn't like phrases in "other act evidence". Complained about 35 violations by state. :rolleyes: Will be filing objections to 35 acts of evidence.

AC

State gives them notice of the general nature of other acts of evidence. State has met that burden. Reasonableness is ok. A week in advance of trial has been considered reasonable in federal courts to introduce other acts evidence. If they want to object to all 35, they can do that, and if they do, state will respond

Billy's attorney

She says yes they will file objections to all 35 acts.
Mark talking about another hearing?

Billy's attorney says the state wants to take a photograph of one of Billy's tattoos. Jail Billy is in asked for a court order. AC prepared an order, Mark agrees.

Judge Deering asking Billy W the standard questions about has he had access to his attorneys, etc. Nothing else he wishes to say. Attorney says Billy is frustrated there's no trial date, tired of sitting in jail. Atty hopes the Daubert hearing, etc. will help Billy understand that his trial date will be set soon.

Attorney says Billy is very intelligent, he understands dynamics and he will let them know when he objects to something.

JMO, Billy showing some attitude and swagger today.

BBM. You're absolutely right, Betty. He definitely treated the judge with little respect. Even after being corrected by his attorney to say "Your Honor" when answering the judge, BW kept on with his lack of respect with answers like "yeah" and never did properly address the judge. IMO, just shows how much he feels he doesn't have to play by anyone's rules but his own. Again, just my opinion.
 
Billy’s mouth and temperance will be his downfall, for some reason he thinks he doesn’t belong behind bars, I wonder what FW is telling also AC gave some new recordings along with 2017 and 2018s wonder what is on them???? JMO
 
That whole truck driving thing has been a mystery with everything else. Did they own the truck? Were they independent haulers? Whom did they haul for or drive for? From when to when did they do this? Why did they stop?
I think it was in GW4's hearing with Agent Scheiderer testifying that AC mentioned the truck company they drove for. I don't recall who, but it sounded like a regional carrier. FWIW
 
BBM. You're absolutely right, Betty. He definitely treated the judge with little respect. Even after being corrected by his attorney to say "Your Honor" when answering the judge, BW kept on with his lack of respect with answers like "yeah" and never did properly address the judge. IMO, just shows how much he feels he doesn't have to play by anyone's rules but his own. Again, just my opinion.

Watching him swagger a little as he left the courtroom and remembering the scowl he had on his face when addressing the judge, it occurred to me there's truth to the claim that he became aggressive and domineering towards his family in the year or so before the murders.

The guy has been in jail for 3 years with piles of evidence on 21 charges related to the cold-blooded vicious murders of 8 innocent people sleeping in their beds. I've zero doubt he did it, but he's acting like his rights are being infringed upon! He has the arrogance to demand he be released on bail. Wagners are arrogant, abusive people who expect to always get their way and never be held accountable for their actions against others.

ETA: Also surprised that the jail where Billy is staying told the prosecutors that they needed a court order to take a photo of Billy's tattoo. All the other jails cooperated with similar requests of the other defendants. I wonder if FW was calling the warden at Billy's jail and making demands?
 
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BBM. You're absolutely right, Betty. He definitely treated the judge with little respect. Even after being corrected by his attorney to say "Your Honor" when answering the judge, BW kept on with his lack of respect with answers like "yeah" and never did properly address the judge. IMO, just shows how much he feels he doesn't have to play by anyone's rules but his own. Again, just my opinion.
I think the closest Billy came was - Yeah, Your Honor. :D

ETA - Reminds me of a great scene from "Miss Congeniality" discussing the difference between "Yeah" and "Yes".
 
That whole truck driving thing has been a mystery with everything else. Did they own the truck? Were they independent haulers? Whom did they haul for or drive for? From when to when did they do this? Why did they stop?

Jake and George co-owned their truck an eighteen-wheeler
and worked for R & L Transportation.
They were on the way to pick up their truck for a job when arrested.
 
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