OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #80

[Skully67]

Can we talk about all the missing time the night of the 21st into the 22nd. What do you think they were doing?

We know for sure Chris Sr and Gary were killed around 11pm. Those phone calls Jake said were Chris Sr calling Billy's phone so Billy could "find it"/ Chris would be in a position that Jake had a shot.

So Jake gets the key goes to the grow building, gets the cameras, comes back and bodies are moved by then, they leave out of Chris Sr and Jake (not sure if the others went also) decide to get go over to Frankies and it's locked up so they go back to Chris Sr. and get into Chris Sr truck and drive by Danas.

So murders about 11, how much time does the rest of that take?

We know Dana wasn't home at 1130 or so because she was somewhere.. was it talking to a co worker?? So when they drove by her house she wasn't home, then they decide to drive by Kenneth's.

So let's say they are done at Chris Sr's and then walking to Frankie's and back to Chris Sr by 1145 and drive to Danas is just a mile or less.. then back toward Kenneth's.

I need to go back to the video's they showed the times there were various vehicles passing by.

Going to Kenneth's and back maybe 30-40 minutes max? So let's say they are back by 12:30 from driving by Kenneth's. Then they pull into Chris Srs and walk back to Frankie's and they kill him and HHG. Let's say 30 minutes to park, walk over, get in and kill them, then walk back. 1pm now and they are going to drive to Dana's just less than a mile away and walk right in and kill all 3 of them. Let's say 130 now they are heading to Kenneth's and kill him. Even allowing an hour for that it's 230.

I think I allowed a lot of time in there also that I just don't know if it was even needed. What were they doing? Looking for things to steal. I sorta feel like they might have spent some time at Chris Sr trying to find the key for the safe or to steal things. It seems like they killed Chris and Gary quick and then they had so much time before the rest of the killings.

I will go back to the video times again because I recall thinking there was around an hour and a half it seemed from that 11 killing at the first house and the truck on video going to and from Kenneths. Made me wonder if the motive was also looking for Billy's money.

I was wondering the same thing. What were they doing from 11 to about 3.

 

[Skully67]

And Tabi. He got his digs in on her several times.

I know there are women in the world who are attracted to prisoners & set themselves up for getting duped (and that’s on them) but thank goodness Jake Wagner will never be free to prey on innocent women again.

The comment he made about Tabi and women in general is all I need to know about him.

 

[Skully67]

Pike County murder trial: Jake Wagner 'could not bear to think' or speak about his crimes after the murders

Jake Wagner continued testifying against his brother, who is on trial for the murder of eight people in Pike County in 2016.

www.wcpo.com

 

[Pru2U]

Just watched Pretty Little Lies podcast of Day 1 of Jake's testimony and something dawned on me.

We still don't know why there was money scattered on or near Kenneth's body. (Because Billy shot him while Jake stayed in the truck)

Or about the dogs. Darn it! I really wanted to know about the dogs.

 

[The 13th]

Just watched Pretty Little Lies podcast of Day 1 of Jake's testimony and something dawned on me.

We still don't know why there was money scattered on or near Kenneth's body. (Because Billy shot him while Jake stayed in the truck)

Or about the dogs. Darn it! I really wanted to know about the dogs.

I wonder if Billy turned out Kenneth's pockets looking for something and money got scattered. Or Billy grabbed some cash to steal and dropped some of it.

 

[sunshineray]

Others here have mentioned the podcast Pretty Little Lies. She watches the trial daily & recaps. I've only seen one other, EA's and it was superb! She just released today's events. She IS NOT attending the trial in person. Apparently, when witnesses opt out, she gathers all the tweets she can find, puts them in order & reports from there (sounds time consuming). And she's great at it. I highly recommend. I want to post the link to tonight's episode but not sure it's a WS approved source?

You can find it on YouTube: It's only 37 minutes long.

Pretty Little Lies Day 30: George Wagner Trial Pike County Massacre JAKE WAGNER TAKES THE STAND: Day 2

It was so well put together, I'm going back to watch last nights episode.

Those were very good recaps of day 29 & 30. Thanks Pru2U

 

[sunshineray]

I wonder if Billy turned out Kenneth's pockets looking for something and money got scattered. Or Billy grabbed some cash to steal and dropped some of it.

KR's phone probably, it was found there on the campers window pane area...I think it was behind a blind, IIRC

 

[Lucky 2]

This is playing out exactly like were watching son's of anarchy all over again. Sadly it won't end the same but, assuming George and Billy catch guilty verdicts, they'll at least be were they belong.
Though I keep wondering if George had actual decent attorneys he'd probably walk especially given 0/zero DNA of his. Anywhere. Or prints. Or a fiber or hair. Nothing except the word of a now convicted mass murderer.
I'm still shocked his attorneys didn't shred the whole insular family dynamic thing because of how they chose to live/share/decide as 1. Certainly not a rarity. Certainly has been gaining steam for a couple decades now. I may think odd of it. But, its definitely not anything illegal, trashy, freaky or whatever. I'm from the mountains and I still know several families like this. Doesn't mean squat in reality nor in a courtroom.

Forensic accountant's testimony goes further by saying that well yeah, just because it's his card doesn't mean he used it. Especially with free access amongst all of them.
What you can make out on recordings should have been easy to swat back. There's just so much that is actually plausible in them which makes them somewhat subjective especially knowing now by JW's own mouth he's a paranoid. They all are. Not crazy. Just paranoid.
I'm sure George was there. Help cover it up, plan it etc. But my guts not proof. I don't know what JW would have to gain by pontificating his way through his testimony. By putting his brother there if he weren't. I don't think it's as much about removing the DP for him/them as it was, for Jake anyway, to keep his daughter from eventually hearing/watching his trial when she's older. That's his Achilles heel, Sophie.
They're all some racist. I'd think they'd prefer a single dp cage to a shared one with those you don't much care for. Billy especially. He's gonna regret those tats lol.
Anyway, as much as I loathe Canepa and the "Um" factory, his attorneys really are in over their heads. Thankfully. I mean you start his defense with a lie the prosecution thumped day 1.
Or maybe I'm watching to many of these.
My thoughts

 

[Betty P]

How did Canepa take away LWOP?

Usually, in extreme, obvious murder cases like this, the defense attorney’s primary goal is to prevent the defendant getting sentenced to death. I recall reading that on the various defense attorneys web sites when they were appointed. Most mention the high number of cases where they successfully helped clients avoid the death penalty.

When Canepa negotiated the plea agreement with Jake that included LWOP for all the Wagners who cooperated, she finished that job for them. There was no longer a need for 4 DP trials.

Everyone was surprised when Billy and GW4 still insisted on going to trial. Billys attorneys didn’t behave like swaggering hot dogs in court, so it seemed likely it was Billy who was insisting on a trial. With GW4 it was assumed his attorneys wanted the showy trial and bragging rights to helping him avoid the DP. At the time, it seemed they were miffed that the prosecution had done a great job by avoiding trials in all 4 cases. Unlike the other 3 defense teams, Nash and Parker were as mad as wet hens. Canepa was stealing their thunder, and worst of all, she was a woman! JMO.

This was all part of our discussion here at the time. It took everyone by surprise when Nash and Parker became upset at the deal. It’s also possible they tried to negotiate a very generous deal for GW4 with the state and were turned down. Whatever happened, they, unlike the other 3 defense teams, continued to show a lot of animosity towards the judge and state attorneys, especially Canepa. There’s just a vibe from them, JMO, that this is personal to them.

 

[Betty P]

And I doubt any higher court will declare a mistrial just because the media is upset that they are allowed in the courtroom but the trial is not broadcast.

Keep in mind the Appeals Court decision, as shown, states Failure to follow their decision will result in a mistrial. They specifically put mistrial on the table For this case. Hopefully it will be overruled, but for now it’s hanging over the judge’s head if that court feels he makes a wrong decision in one of his hearings about allowing a defendant to take the option. I presume a hearing will have to be held for every witness who wants to take the option going forward. so, more of those hearings with the threat of a mistrial if the judge rules in a way they don’t like.

Nash and Parker just succeeded in tying the rest of this trial in knots, with a wrong move by the judge resulting in mistrial. The decision also gives N&P a mountain of opportunities to appeal based on this decision. JMO, Ithink they were behind this “journalist’s” crusade.
Hopefully another court will overturn it.

 

[Betty P]

This is playing out exactly like were watching son's of anarchy all over again. Sadly it won't end the same but, assuming George and Billy catch guilty verdicts, they'll at least be were they belong.
Though I keep wondering if George had actual decent attorneys he'd probably walk especially given 0/zero DNA of his. Anywhere. Or prints. Or a fiber or hair. Nothing except the word of a now convicted mass murderer.
I'm still shocked his attorneys didn't shred the whole insular family dynamic thing because of how they chose to live/share/decide as 1. Certainly not a rarity. Certainly has been gaining steam for a couple decades now. I may think odd of it. But, its definitely not anything illegal, trashy, freaky or whatever. I'm from the mountains and I still know several families like this. Doesn't mean squat in reality nor in a courtroom.

Forensic accountant's testimony goes further by saying that well yeah, just because it's his card doesn't mean he used it. Especially with free access amongst all of them.
What you can make out on recordings should have been easy to swat back. There's just so much that is actually plausible in them which makes them somewhat subjective especially knowing now by JW's own mouth he's a paranoid. They all are. Not crazy. Just paranoid.
I'm sure George was there. Help cover it up, plan it etc. But my guts not proof. I don't know what JW would have to gain by pontificating his way through his testimony. By putting his brother there if he weren't. I don't think it's as much about removing the DP for him/them as it was, for Jake anyway, to keep his daughter from eventually hearing/watching his trial when she's older. That's his Achilles heel, Sophie.
They're all some racist. I'd think they'd prefer a single dp cage to a shared one with those you don't much care for. Billy especially. He's gonna regret those tats lol.
Anyway, as much as I loathe Canepa and the "Um" factory, his attorneys really are in over their heads. Thankfully. I mean you start his defense with a lie the prosecution thumped day 1.
Or maybe I'm watching to many of these.
My thoughts

Is this what is referred to as the CSI Effect - if no DNA or fingerprints are found, the defendant is innocent? That first person witness accounts and other solid evidence doesn’t count?

 

[Niner]

Wednesday, October 26th:
*Hearing re Testimony (opt in or out) (@ 8:30am ET) & *Trial continues (Day 31) (@ 9am ET) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (37). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos.) & a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) – for *George Washington Wagner IV (27/now 31) (Jakes’ bro) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/28/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count of 1st degree conspiracy, 4 counts of 1st degree aggravated burglary, 1 count of 5th degree unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts of 3rd degree evidence tampering, 1 count of 5th degree forgery, 1 count of 5th degree unauthorized use of computer or telecommunications, 1 count of 4th degree interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count of 5th degree obstructing justice, & 1 count of 1st degree engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. Plead not guilty. Held without bond. DA will seek the DP. Per Jake’s plea agreement, DP is off the table if his testimony is truthful.
Trial began on 8/29/22 with final jury selection & the jury was seated on 8/30/22. 12 Jurors & 6 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 6 alternates: (5 women & 1 man). 9/30/22: Ill juror replaced with alternate. 12 jurors & 5 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 5 alternates (4 women & 1 man).
Trial began with opening statements began on Monday, 9/12/22. (Trial is scheduled for 8 to 9 weeks (56-63 days). No COURT on 10/27/22.
Crime info & court hearings from 11/28/18 thru 9/6/22 & Trial Day 1-29 (9/12 to 10/24/22) reference post #824 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-79.640993/page-42
10/25/22: Defendant's Motion #112 withdrawn (to allow witness to testify remotely filed 10/7/22). On Monday, Judge Deering stated that the conflict in scheduling was resolved so defense withdrew the motion.
10/25/22 Tuesday, Trial Day 30: State witness: Edward Jacob “Jake” Wagner, brother of George. Opted out on audio & video.
for more info see post #913 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-79.640993/page-46
for more info see posts #925 & 931 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-79.640993/page-47
for more info see posts #944 & 948 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-79.640993/page-48
Jurors were dismissed for a lunch break because the court received this judgment from the 4th District Court of Appeals regarding witnesses opting out of being recorded. Hearing has been called at 8:30am for Wednesday, 10/26/22 regarding testimony being filmed of Jake Wagner. It’s unknown if today’s trial will continue. Trial DID continue with Jake on the stand.
for more info see posts #6 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/...e-4-members-wagner-family-arrested-80.641348/
for more info see posts #30 & 40 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...mbers-wagner-family-arrested-80.641348/page-2
for more info see post #60 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...mbers-wagner-family-arrested-80.641348/page-3
for more info see post #96 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...mbers-wagner-family-arrested-80.641348/page-5
State witness: Edward Jacob “Jake” Wagner continued.
for more info see posts #13 & 16 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...e-4-members-wagner-family-arrested-80.641348/
for more info see posts #23, 33, 36 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...mbers-wagner-family-arrested-80.641348/page-2
for more info see posts #152 & 155 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...mbers-wagner-family-arrested-80.641348/page-8
for more info see post #198 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-80.641348/page-10
for more info see post #245 (article) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-80.641348/page-13
Trial continues on Wednesday, 10/26/22. Hearing has been called at 8:30am for Wednesday, 10/26/22 Common Pleas Judge Randy Deering will hold a hearing tomorrow morning at 8:30. He will listen to arguments for and against allowing confessed killer Jake Wagner's testimony to be shared outside the courtroom (video and/or audio) regarding testimony being filmed of Jake Wagner. NO trial on Thursday, 10/27/22

 

[Betty P]

Others here have mentioned the podcast Pretty Little Lies. She watches the trial daily & recaps. I've only seen one other, EA's and it was superb! She just released today's events. She IS NOT attending the trial in person. Apparently, when witnesses opt out, she gathers all the tweets she can find, puts them in order & reports from there (sounds time consuming). And she's great at it. I highly recommend. I want to post the link to tonight's episode but not sure it's a WS approved source?

You can find it on YouTube: It's only 37 minutes long.

Pretty Little Lies Day 30: George Wagner Trial Pike County Massacre JAKE WAGNER TAKES THE STAND: Day 2

It was so well put together, I'm going back to watch last nights episode.

You can check with the Mods to see if they will approve it.

 

[StrangeOne]

Well, Jake could be the reason if George and Billy are found guilty. So far the evidence against them is coming from Jake, maybe some from Angela.

So to even put Jake in the same prison with George and/or Billy could have things ending badly for Jake. In the same cell? WW3.

What they did is so evil and so infamous that all 4 will have targets on them, and the guards will not do them any favors. Even inmates have their standards. You don't prey on children, rape women, shoot teen age kids, and shoot nursing mothers in bed leaving their babies soaked in blood and at risk of something bad happening to them because they are all alone for hours and hours. K could have accidentally got smothered. Plus making a 3 year old boy see his parents like that.

Who would even dare try to be friends with them in prison? That's how horrendous the Wagners are. Prisoners are people and any normal person will hate the Wagners for what they did. Just like we do.

Imagine the look on the face of the person who has to share a cell with a Wagner.

AW is is going to get a surprise when she tries to control everything around her. Some of the meanest women have earned their spots in prison and are going to enjoy letting her know who really is big momma up in there

 

[ohioexpat63]

AW is is going to get a surprise when she tries to control everything around her. Some of the meanest women have earned their spots in prison and are going to enjoy letting her know who really is big momma up in there

And there will be plenty of women that suffered at the hands of lunatics like AW. She'll never walk in freedom again. Jmo

 

[GoBuckeyes]

/

IMO, there needs to be clear definition of "the public." "The public" nowadays are online, etc. We as the public have been denied open court proceedings.
I can see whistleblowers, LE, et al, as they are at-large. Jake and AW are convicted felons who are being protected by LE, around the clock.

In the interest of ensuring that a defendant receives a fair trial, imo, "public" should be interpreted in the broadest sense.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Sadly, neither the defense team (nor GW4) seems to care much about the surviving family members. They even had the gall to show up at the funerals of their victims. Right out of the criminology textbooks under "sociopathic mass murderers".

ETA: add the local media guy to that list.

To the Rhoden, Manley and Gilley families and friends: I'm sorry you have to go through more of this disrespectful and abusive behavior from the horrible people who took your loved ones from you and made your life unbearable for the last several years.

It's not the media's fault. This should have been hammered out pre-trial. MOO Ohio law needs to catch up with the times, allowing for audio and video of witnesses. MOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

So I'm wondering (and don't shot the messenger.. lol) if Jake's lawyers are behind him opting out? If he hasn't been sentenced yet and it's possible if the deal fall through he goes to trial, then could him opting in on video maybe taint a jury pool for his trial or could it be used against him somehow. I just think opting out also sounds like a lawyers advice for someone that isn't sentenced yet.

He already entered into the record a guilty plea with allocution.

 

[Betty P]

It's not the media's fault. This should have been hammered out pre-trial. MOO Ohio law needs to catch up with the times, allowing for audio and video of witnesses. MOO

Agree, not the news media in general.

I definitely disagree with the 4 circuit court ruling that this trial is subject to be declared a mistrial if they don't agree with any decision the judge makes in hearings regarding witnesses opting out of tv coverage. JMO, that's overreach. Are there any guidelines regulating who can opt out and who can't? It seems very arbitrary to say, "its a mistrial just because we don't like your reason for giving someone an opt out".

Ohio needs to catch up on a lot of things. There are still quite a few states that don't allow cameras, though. I'm sure there are good reasons to limit or regulate their use.

Will be interesting to see what happens today.

 

[Seattle1]

https://twitter.com/DerekMyers
Moments ago, the media won a restraining order (for lack of better words) achieving two things:

1. Jake Wagner’s testimony must cease until the court holds a hearing as to why his testimony may be shielded from the public.

2. The media and public are now free to come and go from the court room, as opposed to being locked in/out during proceedings.

Media lawyer
@jackcgreiner
has joined the case and has requested a hearing be held to determine if the testimony of Jake Wagner can be filmed in the trial of #GeorgeWagnerIV

It is unclear if Judge Deering will obey the higher court’s ruling, and if so, when such a hearing would be held.
@jackcgreiner
, on behalf of the media pool has asked for advance notice of hearing so his firm may attend. The court is on an “extended lunch break” as of now.


Besides Mr. Myers' twitter page, a copy of the Order is posted on page 1 of this thread.

Personally, I'd like to see OH statute revisited where a defendant does not have the option to opt-in/out of public view. This option should be reserved for witnesses only. JMO