OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #80

[sunshineray]

My original question though was weren't all 4 charged with 8 counts of murder? And isn't that what Jake plead guilty to? Although he only confessed to 5 of the murders, he still plead guilty to all 8.

Is that correct?

Yes through the conspiracy and other things

 

[joe jones]

Do the ballistics recovered from the victims and surroundings confirm BW's gun shot FR too?

JW says he handed BW his gun to hold, and BW then shot two bullets into FR, and we only know 3 guns were used that could mean one killer 3 guns, 2 killers 3 guns, or 3 killers 3 guns, I was of the view JW killed 5 BW 3, but after learning JW has suddenly remembered in July of this year BW shot 2 bullets into FR I doubt JW story that BW shot anybody,

the July remembering was when the prosecution visited JW in jail, IMO they possibly asked him to think very hard about him seeing BW shoot at one of the victims, as JW did not according to him see BW shoot either CRSR GR or KR, and they have not a smidgen of evidence against BW placing him at the crime scenes, so how convenient JW suddenly remembers over a year after his proffer oops forgot to tell you Dad shot FR twice

 

[Pru2U]

The most recent subpoena filed today. There was one yesterday for both of Jake's lawyers and my understanding is that was for their notes from talking to Jake. Then today the 27th there is a second subpoena filed on only one of Jake's lawyers. Just curios what the second one is about and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere on twitter or FB with a photo of the document.

The one submitted yesterday, was it generated from Pike County? I was just thinking what you’re looking for might possibly be on a different county’s website.

 

[Pru2U]

Yes through the conspiracy and other things

I thought all 4 were charged with the exact same charges when they were arrested. At that time, they didn’t know who was present for the murders so they all got charged. MOO

The only one that should have changed would be AW’s AFTER her plea deal. I can’t remember how Jake’s changed with his plea. I know they dropped some things (but I think it had to do with restitution?)

 

[joe jones]

Their actions before and after the murders and the ballistics also weigh into their guilt, not just JW's testimony.

the ballistics or guns have absolutely no evidentiary value without JW testimony, only he can say who killed who, or who shot any gun, we all know which gun was used for each victim, but there are no eyewitnesses except JW saying who did what with each gun,

and pre and post behaviors, GW bought an oil filter at the same time as he bought other things that could be used on his truck, BW wanted nothing to do with his sons, and his marriage to AW had been over for years, there was no kitchen meetings involving BW, post the murders they were all terrified of BCI, they were a paranoid and insular family, the boys had been raised to be paranoid and suspicious, add to that you might be arrested for 8 murders (even if you didn't do it, but knew your brother, son had,) then I would be acting a little squirrely,

I fall off and on the fence on who did what, JW for sure was there, but what part if any GW and BW played the state needs to provide me with a little more than the word of JW

 

[justtrish]

If he’s changing his story

Which story? He has told so many no one can keep up.
JMO

To be fair, we don't know how many stories he told or if they don't line up. We didn't hear his entire proffer. We have heard what AC said in opening, which is not his direct words, that is her words. Just like the defense can say whatever they want in opening and then never mentioned it again or they can present something else.

We don't know what Jake's initial story of that night was. It very well could have been a basic watered down version so he himself could take all the blame and minimize the others involvement. That does not equal lying in my opinion. When he confessed to his lawyers initially he said he would go to trial because he wasn't telling on the others. At some point that changed and he decided to take a deal. I don't think this is lying or changing his story. The lawyers could take the case to trial and make the state prove their case. They can not let Jake get on the stand to say he didn't do it, if he already told them he did, but continuing to trial is not a crime.

I also don't think AC said give us all 4 or no deal. I think she said we have evidence to show everyone was involved somehow (this is how conspiracy works so each didn't have to actually shoot anyone and maybe they had to explain to Jake how that works) and if you aren't telling the truth and if our evidence isn't matching your version then the deal is off. That is very different from saying, we have no evidence and we want you to place everyone there or trying to get him to change his story entirely.

His lawyers are not going to encourage him to lie either or knowingly let him lie to AC. They could be in big trouble and it's in their clients best interest to get this deal which hinges on telling the truth.

Jake very well could have told different versions entirely, but we don't know that because we haven't heard the proffer. What we have heard in court so far based on tweets, which is very limited and not allowing us to hear tone or all the questions being asked before answers are given.. it's very hard to tell if he was asked to be more specific and then added something WE haven't heard before. That does not mean AC hasn't heard that before.

The only people that know if Jake is not living up to what he agreed to in his deal is the prosecution and Jake.

 

[MTW2011]

The one submitted yesterday, was it generated from Pike County? I was just thinking what you’re looking for might possibly be on a different county’s website.

It says it was filed in / from Court of Common Pleas Pike County, and the case lookup on the site lists these as the latest entries (same names) the document is just not accessible AFAIK from their website at

https://cpcourt.pikecounty.oh.gov/eservices/searchresults.page?x=4M64FYvi57YIUtETreI4-WXOnGvPfu7QVd-Sla8Cr6-UlfeTvywABcpn81C1xkOn4kMbW8Ktcvtvc2p0JnT1xQ#

 

[RAISINISBACK]

There was also mentioned that gunfire was heard from inside the trailer. BW was inside the trailer when JW opened fire, I believe...IIRC

I'm just coming in now and in reading back some. I cannot believe the defense is now saying the BW as well as GWIV were not present on scenes that night? Not that they didn't shoot anyone but that they weren't even with JW that night? Am I getting that right?

I personally think it was Jake and Angie. There is nothing to say Angie didn't put those size 10 1/2 shoes on over her own shoes. There is just no evidence that anyone planned or carried out these murders other than Jake and Angie.

It's been Jake and Angie every single day, all the way.

JMO

 

[Chelly]

Angenette Levy

@Angenette5
·
Oct 24

Replying to
@Angenette5
Billy said the only option would be to kill Hanna May or Sophia. That was January 2016. Jake said he was still hesitant but Hanna May saying "we'll deal with it" if S was molested was "my tipping point."
@LawCrimeNetwork

 

[pittsburghgirl]

...why would GW get the same deal as his brother, even JW says GW killed nobody, so they are not equal deals, and if GW is not guilty then why would he even take a plea deal, it is only the word of JW that places GW and BW at any of the crime scenes,

Because Aggravated Murder is not about who pulled the trigger. It's about 3 people (with the help of a 4th) invading 4 homes intended to murder the occupants. It doesn't matter who pulled the triggers or who drove the car or who just held the door open. You go out with 2 other people on a murder spree, you are committing aggravated murder.

 

[sunshineray]

JW says he handed BW his gun to hold, and BW then shot two bullets into FR, and we only know 3 guns were used that could mean one killer 3 guns, 2 killers 3 guns, or 3 killers 3 guns, I was of the view JW killed 5 BW 3, but after learning JW has suddenly remembered in July of this year BW shot 2 bullets into FR I doubt JW story that BW shot anybody,

the July remembering was when the prosecution visited JW in jail, IMO they possibly asked him to think very hard about him seeing BW shoot at one of the victims, as JW did not according to him see BW shoot either CRSR GR or KR, and they have not a smidgen of evidence against BW placing him at the crime scenes, so how convenient JW suddenly remembers over a year after his proffer oops forgot to tell you Dad shot FR twice

They have JW saying BW had such an such gun and they have the ballistics of that gun. They have video of two vehicles, JW can't be driving them both. They have BW giving the murder vehicle immediately to a niece. They also have BW's/CRSR's phone evidence. I'm sure I'm not remembering all of it. Is that not enough to prove conspiracy to commit and cover-up?

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I thought all 4 were charged with the exact same charges when they were arrested. At that time, they didn’t know who was present for the murders so they all got charged. MOO

The only one that should have changed would be AW’s AFTER her plea deal. I can’t remember how Jake’s changed with his plea. I know they dropped some things (but I think it had to do with restitution?)

That's the nature of "felony murder" or aggravated murder.

 

[joe jones]

I wonder why defense wants to question JW attorney, all notes are work product and covered under attorney client privilege, all discussions are covered under attorney client privilege,

only way it's waived is if JW waives it, but if JW has shared information with his attorneys and also with a third party then the privilege can be considered waived,

we shall see what comes out of the hearing

 

[joe jones]

Because Aggravated Murder is not about who pulled the trigger. It's about 3 people (with the help of a 4th) invading 4 homes intended to murder the occupants. It doesn't matter who pulled the triggers or who drove the car or who just held the door open. You go out with 2 other people on a murder spree, you are committing aggravated murder.

I understand the charges and the elements of all charges state has to prove, but the state has to prove that BW and GW went out that night and did visit the crime scenes and did either kill the victims or assist in killing the victims

one can remove oneself from a conspiracy by not going ahead with the planned events one conspired to do, so if BW or GW did conspire but backed out and only JW went on to commit the murders then in some instances defendants can be considered to have withdrawn from conspiracy, I think you have to do positive acts to have been considered to have withdrawn, not sure if the defense is going to argue this, they have only just started cross so they may continue with the GW wasn't there, or GW went to protect JW, or a myriad of other theories

 

[RAISINISBACK]

he has changed his testimony from direct to cross, when questioned by AC he said he could see DR with her phone on, now he has said he peered under DR closed door and could see her phone, I would like to find a picture of the door to see if this was possible, also he only decided to tell prosecutor in July that BW shot 2 bullets into FR, I can see why he may have added that (with a little persuasion from prosecutor) as he never saw BW kill anybody in all his discussions with prosecution and the state have no evidence to show BW was ever at the crime scenes except for JW testimony, so they may need JW to testify to the 2 bullets for FR from BW which I do not believe,

with JW now saying he saw BW shoot KR the state has an eyewitness if the jury believe JW at BW trial

DR closed door

BBM
DR's closed locked door. Then somehow it magically unlocked and opened itself. Jake is making everything up as he goes hoping he hits in the right combination to spare his sorry life.

Jmo

 

[justtrish]

It says it was filed in / from Court of Common Pleas Pike County, and the case lookup on the site lists these as the latest entries (same names) the document is just not accessible AFAIK from their website at

https://cpcourt.pikecounty.oh.gov/eservices/searchresults.page?x=4M64FYvi57YIUtETreI4-WXOnGvPfu7QVd-Sla8Cr6-UlfeTvywABcpn81C1xkOn4kMbW8Ktcvtvc2p0JnT1xQ#

Thank you! I think this might be a correction from yesterday then. Yesterday's subpoena said Nov 28th at 9am and I thought that seemed odd to have a meeting a month from now about something that seems rather important to the witness that is on the stand now. Tomorrow at 9am makes way more sense!

 

[justtrish]

I was just reviewing autopsies and

JW says he handed BW his gun to hold, and BW then shot two bullets into FR, and we only know 3 guns were used that could mean one killer 3 guns, 2 killers 3 guns, or 3 killers 3 guns, I was of the view JW killed 5 BW 3, but after learning JW has suddenly remembered in July of this year BW shot 2 bullets into FR I doubt JW story that BW shot anybody,

the July remembering was when the prosecution visited JW in jail, IMO they possibly asked him to think very hard about him seeing BW shoot at one of the victims, as JW did not according to him see BW shoot either CRSR GR or KR, and they have not a smidgen of evidence against BW placing him at the crime scenes, so how convenient JW suddenly remembers over a year after his proffer oops forgot to tell you Dad shot FR twice

I was reviewing the autopsies again and I just wonder if Jake is looking for bullets, how does he know which victim Billy shot 2 times? Maybe he shot them each another time to make sure they were dead. HHG was shot a lot of times. I wish there were photos with trajectory rods so we could see angles and maybe that would show where they were standing and it very well could show 2 people or at least a single person standing in 2 different places when various shots were fired. Maybe they did show that and I missed it.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Agree, he is a psycho, but the evidence clearly shows there was more than one shooter. Prosecution has to make sure the confession fits the evidence.

It's not the prosecution's job to allow Jake to spare his family, even if he feels guilty for making them go along with this horrendous plan.

Prosecution has to make sure the confession fits the evidence.

An investigator or prosecutor should never try to make a confession fit the evidence. They should follow the evidence where ever it goes. Period. If the confession does not fit the evidence, then the confession is a lie. Plain and simple. People lie, evidence does not lie.

JMO

 

[joe jones]

I was just reviewing autopsies and

I was reviewing the autopsies again and I just wonder if Jake is looking for bullets, how does he know which victim Billy shot 2 times? Maybe he shot them each another time to make sure they were dead. HHG was shot a lot of times. I wish there were photos with trajectory rods so we could see angles and maybe that would show where they were standing and it very well could show 2 people or at least a single person standing in 2 different places when various shots were fired. Maybe they did show that and I missed it.

they did discuss where the shooter would have stood, but now according to JW big BW was in the room at the same time, and as to who shot who JW says BW fired 2 bullets into FR, and we will never know if this is true or not, as only JW knows what happened and IMO he is a liar who can't be trusted to tell the truth,

 

[justtrish]

Weather in April 2016 in Pike County, Ohio, USA

Weather reports from April 2016 in Pike County, Ohio, USA with highs and lows

www.timeanddate.com

Weather in April 2016 in Pike County, Ohio, USA

Weather reports from April 2016 in Pike County, Ohio, USA with highs and lows

www.timeanddate.com

Hope this works. Historical weather for the night of the 21st into the 22nd. You can change the date to the 21st to see the late hours of the 21st and there was some rain showing then as well as the early hours of the 22nd.