OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

[Puzzles8]

Does anyone have a summary of the evidence that has been gathered that led LE to the Wagners? I have seen bits and pieces but not the full story. Thanks

It appears something happened/was discovered in April 2017 to shift LE's focus to the W4's. We don't really know exactly what that was.
Late April/May 2017, was when the increased LE interviews with the W4's and search warrants on their properties started.

 

[twt11]

What is the significance of the tattoo? And who has the tattoo? The dad or one of the sons?

 

[JustaboyFromMS]

Thank you! This helps a lot!

No prob

 

[JustaboyFromMS]

What is the significance of the tattoo? And who has the tattoo? The dad or one of the sons?

BW3

 

[Puzzles8]

What is the significance of the tattoo? And who has the tattoo? The dad or one of the sons?

twt, for a new member you're asking some awfully good questions!
I'll just say.....we really don't know.
Billy has some visible tattoos on his forearms. We think one of them (the 3 triangles) is a Valknut, has something to do with Odin. I also just noticed when I looked that up the tattoo can be a symbol of sacrifice. It is also sometimes used as a White Supremacist symbol. He also might have other tattoos that are concealed by the jail clothing. Bottom line is, because "a photo of a tattoo" is in the evidence it must somehow point to motive.
We really don't know if it is GWW3(Billy) or GWW4's tattoo. All it says in the evidence list is "George Wagner".

 

[Loomis124]

It appears something happened/was discovered in April 2017 to shift LE's focus to the W4's. We don't really know exactly what that was.
Late April/May 2017, was when the increased LE interviews with the W4's and search warrants on their properties started.

Remember the red truck? James Manley was arrested for destroying the GPS that LE placed on it April 22 2017. The ball started rolling fast at this point. JMO

UPDATE: Charges dismissed against brother in unsolved Ohio massacre

 

[twt11]

twt, for a new member you're asking some awfully good questions!
I'll just say.....we really don't know.
Billy has some visible tattoos on his forearms. We think one of them (the 3 triangles) is a Valknut, has something to do with Odin. I also just noticed when I looked that up the tattoo can be a symbol of sacrifice. It is also sometimes used as a White Supremacist symbol. He also might have other tattoos that are concealed by the jail clothing. Bottom line is, because "a photo of a tattoo" is in the evidence it must somehow point to motive.
We really don't know if it is GWW3(Billy) or GWW4's tattoo. All it says in the evidence list is "George Wagner".

Ah! OK - thought I had missed something. So basically it's in the evidence gathered but at this point we don't know what the significance is. Very interesting! Clearly LE finds it relevant.

When this all happened I was expecting a significantly more sophisticated operation responsible for this. Was really shocked to find out that it was just a family down the street with an ax to grind over custody arrangements. It's amazing that they went through all of that just because of something so insignificant in the grand scheme of life.

 

[Loomis124]

Remember the red truck? James Manley was arrested for destroying the GPS that LE placed on it April 22 2017. The ball started rolling fast at this point. JMO

UPDATE: Charges dismissed against brother in unsolved Ohio massacre

 

[Deleted member 237253]

Can you share more of the story of JW losing his phone. Didn't know about that.
TIA

Sure thing. JW created a new Facebook account literally right before the 'vacation'. He created a public post letting everyone in his clique know that he lost his cell phone which contained the password to his old Facebook account. Unfortunately, once it became a hot topix he switched his profile to private and deleted the post. Even worse the site it was being discussed on is no longer available to view or I would just link the conversations.

Hope that helps. I'm sure Colmustard and anyone else who frequented that site remembers the conversation??

 

[Jonas_Klein]

D

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I agree, we'll see at the trial.

Three mothers died in their home. This is why I believed very early, as soon as june 2016, that this was related to HMR in some way. It seemed obvious, and I am sure investigators believed it too. The Sheriff made a statement regarding the babies and their custodians in july 2016.

However there were different angles to HMR's story. I think the Ws were careful enough to make the case difficult. Usually, cases involving a father are solved faster.

If we look at the dates of the video interviews, we would tend to believe LE did not have the Ws as suspects very early. But the late video interviews could be only part of the story...

JMO, I believe Hanna found out about Jake and his family forge the child custody papers, and she was going to the law with the information, this would have got a lot of his family members in trouble and of jail time!

 

[OhioBlues]

JMO, I believe Hanna found out about Jake and his family forge the child custody papers, and she was going to the law with the information, this would have got a lot of his family members in trouble and of jail time!

How would the W's benefit from forged child custody papers if HMR/family were alive?
It seems to me that the R's could fix that very quickly.

jmo

 

[Explorkell]

Sure thing. JW created a new Facebook account literally right before the 'vacation'. He created a public post letting everyone in his clique know that he lost his cell phone which contained the password to his old Facebook account. Unfortunately, once it became a hot topix he switched his profile to private and deleted the post. Even worse the site it was being discussed on is no longer available to view or I would just link the conversations.

Hope that helps. I'm sure Colmustard and anyone else who frequented that site remembers the conversation??

Just for FYI...I am colmustard from Topix. I had registered here before I ever did on Topix. When I came back here someone else had that Screenname so I went with my original. I do remember the convo about JW's lost phone etc. Will not comment further cause a lot of Topix is gossip and not allowed here.

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

How would the W's benefit from forged child custody papers if HMR/family were alive?
It seems to me that the R's could fix that very quickly.

jmo

Maybe HMR had just became aware of the forged papers, demanded Suds be returned to her, and the
Wagners refused. Next step for the Rhodens was to contact LE, JMO. And Perhaps, this was revealed
to LE during the interviews, interrogation, and arrest of James R. Again JMO.

 

[Ann99]

Maybe HMR had just became aware of the forged papers, demanded Suds be returned to her, and the
Wagners refused. Next step for the Rhodens was to contact LE, JMO. And Perhaps, this was revealed
to LE during the interviews, interrogation, and arrest of James R. Again JMO.

Fresca, I agree with your thinking here. I’ll take it one step further in my opinion - all supposition, for discussion
Basically Wagners thought they could fool the Rhoden Family with fake custody documents. It may have worked for a brief few hours or days, but then Rhodens realized documents were fake. (I’m also thinking KR could have been the one to realize docs were fake as he should have had some experience with divorce and custody issues, but others in Rhoden and Manley Family could have realized this also)
Also Wagners must have felt they had something “to hold over the Rhodens head” to gain cooperation if Rhodens didn’t agree to Custody, fake or not.
Remember Rhodens and Wagners were supposedly in some business ventures together.
I am guessing Rhodens loved and cared about S welfare and legitimately wanted her back, so were not bullied by Wagners threats and vowed to go to Law Enforcement with the fake documents, taking their chances with Wagners possible threats to reveal some potentially shady business dealings. It could have been the mj grow operations...
Rhodens may have planned to go to LE with this info on the following Monday. Wagner put BoondockSaints solution/plan into effect Friday night.
My supposition for discussion only. No facts.
I would like to know if HR or any Rhoden, DR or CR was given a copy of the fake Wagner Custody Document. If so, was the Rhoden copy ever found in one of the homes? Did Wagners have, as part of their mission, a plan to retrieve the document?

 

[Deleted member 237253]

Just for FYI...I am colmustard from Topix. I had registered here before I ever did on Topix. When I came back here someone else had that Screenname so I went with my original. I do remember the convo about JW's lost phone etc. Will not comment further cause a lot of Topix is gossip and not allowed here.

Duly noted.

 

[Dudly]

Sure thing. JW created a new Facebook account literally right before the 'vacation'. He created a public post letting everyone in his clique know that he lost his cell phone which contained the password to his old Facebook account. Unfortunately, once it became a hot topix he switched his profile to private and deleted the post. Even worse the site it was being discussed on is no longer available to view or I would just link the conversations.

Hope that helps. I'm sure Colmustard and anyone else who frequented that site remembers the conversation??

Lost or destroyed so nothing could be gleaned from it by LE....

 

[Dudly]

Not sure if it is my problem or the website but clicking like does not always work for me. Sometimes I have to hit it several times. So some posts may have been missed.

 

[Puzzles8]

Fresca, I agree with your thinking here. I’ll take it one step further in my opinion - all supposition, for discussion
Basically Wagners thought they could fool the Rhoden Family with fake custody documents. It may have worked for a brief few hours or days, but then Rhodens realized documents were fake. (I’m also thinking KR could have been the one to realize docs were fake as he should have had some experience with divorce and custody issues, but others in Rhoden and Manley Family could have realized this also)
Also Wagners must have felt they had something “to hold over the Rhodens head” to gain cooperation if Rhodens didn’t agree to Custody, fake or not.
Remember Rhodens and Wagners were supposedly in some business ventures together.
I am guessing Rhodens loved and cared about S welfare and legitimately wanted her back, so were not bullied by Wagners threats and vowed to go to Law Enforcement with the fake documents, taking their chances with Wagners possible threats to reveal some potentially shady business dealings. It could have been the mj grow operations...
Rhodens may have planned to go to LE with this info on the following Monday. Wagner put BoondockSaints solution/plan into effect Friday night.
My supposition for discussion only. No facts.
I would like to know if HR or any Rhoden, DR or CR was given a copy of the fake Wagner Custody Document. If so, was the Rhoden copy ever found in one of the homes? Did Wagners have, as part of their mission, a plan to retrieve the document?

Ann, you bring up good points on questions we have relating to the forged custody documents.
What I wonder is if the R's even knew about the documents. HMR would certainly know if her signature had been forged and I think the rest of the R family would realize there was no way HMR would have signed those papers.
Maybe the R's were the ones that had something to hold over the W4's heads?
The date on the 2 indictments (related to forged custody documents) is April 3, 2016. Does that mean it was the date written on the documents? Or does it mean it was the date the forged documents were presented to LE?
That's a good question as to how LE even knew about the docs. One of the indictments refers to presenting a copy known to be fake (paraphrasing) to LE. Was that done on 4/3/2016?
In the Secondary discovery documents, there is a piece of evidence titled "Declaration Forms" I'm guessing those are the forms they needed to complete to enter/leave the US/Canada. Maybe they needed to present the custody documents then and border agents made a copy?
It seems as though just when we think we have something figured out, it creates so many more questions! And then when the trials come around, we will likely be left with our jaws wide open saying - well I certainly didn't see that coming!!

 

[Cool Cats]

Lost or destroyed so nothing could be gleaned from it by LE....

LE doesn't need a phone to subpoena the phone's digital records. Of course it's always better to have the phone but no doubt LE found digital evidence from the Wags phones, and all the phones they took and destroyed.

Why leave behind a burned out VCR? ..and why throw evidence down a well?

Like most amateurs, the Wags thought not leaving evidence at the crime scene would get them off. But it's looking more like it's the before and after that got them arrested.

They also must have went into shock when they saw the AG getting involved and saw how BCI wasn't going away. Then they eventually realized how huge the case really was.