OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[Rhoda]

Always following...cannot believe it will soon be two years and nothing...8 people murdered and basically nothing..smdh..it has got to be looked at by outside sources and I can't believe it hasn't been..simply cannot believe it.

I have been following this tragedy for almost 2 years now. Two years and no arrests?!!!! Were these murders the ‘perfect crime’ ? Two years and not one suspect? What is going on? Is this a cover up by the police department? What is going on in Ohio?!!!



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[rsd1200]

I also came across this. I hadn't heard it before, or perhaps forgot it. It's a local tv interview with someone who has lived in the county a long time and was friends with the Rhoden family. They had some interesting things to say. The voice has been altered to protect their identity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwoeiWcWf3A

That was interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I just want to apologize for jumping in here and starting the whole conspiracy/bizarre theory stuff again. People probably have had enough of that. I'm sure there is sooo much the public doesn't know.
Some things are odd. Are not right. Show incompetence. All, of course, IMO.

I didn't see the death certificates, but, as mentioned, the TOD was given as in and around 8-ish for everyone, depending on when they were found.
I'm under the assumption that a death cert is a legal document and the TOD on this LEGAL document should be as accurate as possible. Like, use body temp to extrapolate an estimated TOD.
Why bother to release a death cert if it doesn't say much more than the severely redacted autopsy results, and, obviously doesn't appear to be a very "legal" or "official" document. Public record and all, I get it.

Everyone had been presented with a horrific scene, BUT, there's certain things that are textbook CSI. Those people are trained for that. If they weren't prepared to do that, someone else should have. It's obvious this didn't happen on it's own, therefore, there's someone out there that did. Doing Annie Git Yer Gun is OK and they felt it was necessary for the remaining family members.

Are you gonna treat it like a crime scene, or, contaminate possible evidence by tramping all over everything?

I start getting into all the BS and incompetent practices I mentioned in a prior post.

In the autopsy, victims had bags on their hands, YET, the ME is taking them off and describing the nails, etc. Shouldn't CSI have gone over the bodies for trace evidence and clipped the nails all the way down, etc, BEFORE the autopsy? Why for the love of all that is good would they still have bags on their hands when CSI should have done their jobs before.

I'm starting up again. LOL

IMO, whoever the "powers that be" are, they KNEW they weren't gonna solve this, and just maybe, they didn't have all those "hundreds" of people on the case, and just maybe, they didn't care that much after all.
So, with this much time passing by - supposed investigative work, lab analysis, manpower, etc. and the best they come up with is the Wagners. SMDH

I'm shootin this dead horse.

 

[Betty P]

I just want to apologize for jumping in here and starting the whole conspiracy/bizarre theory stuff again. People probably have had enough of that. I'm sure there is sooo much the public doesn't know.
Some things are odd. Are not right. Show incompetence. All, of course, IMO.

I didn't see the death certificates, but, as mentioned, the TOD was given as in and around 8-ish for everyone, depending on when they were found.
I'm under the assumption that a death cert is a legal document and the TOD on this LEGAL document should be as accurate as possible. Like, use body temp to extrapolate an estimated TOD.
Why bother to release a death cert if it doesn't say much more than the severely redacted autopsy results, and, obviously doesn't appear to be a very "legal" or "official" document. Public record and all, I get it.

Everyone had been presented with a horrific scene, BUT, there's certain things that are textbook CSI. Those people are trained for that. If they weren't prepared to do that, someone else should have. It's obvious this didn't happen on it's own, therefore, there's someone out there that did. Doing Annie Git Yer Gun is OK and they felt it was necessary for the remaining family members.

Are you gonna treat it like a crime scene, or, contaminate possible evidence by tramping all over everything?

I start getting into all the BS and incompetent practices I mentioned in a prior post.

In the autopsy, victims had bags on their hands, YET, the ME is taking them off and describing the nails, etc. Shouldn't CSI have gone over the bodies for trace evidence and clipped the nails all the way down, etc, BEFORE the autopsy? Why for the love of all that is good would they still have bags on their hands when CSI should have done their jobs before.

I'm starting up again. LOL

IMO, whoever the "powers that be" are, they KNEW they weren't gonna solve this, and just maybe, they didn't have all those "hundreds" of people on the case, and just maybe, they didn't care that much after all.
So, with this much time passing by - supposed investigative work, lab analysis, manpower, etc. and the best they come up with is the Wagners. SMDH

I'm shootin this dead horse.

Dr. David Kessler, IIRC, explained the TOD's in his deposition for the newspapers lawsuits to open the AR's. They used the time of LE discovery/verification as place holders, so to speak, pending the outcome of the investigation. They probably determined approximate times of death after the autopsies, but have chosen not to reveal that information to the public. Most likely, that's because it would reveal the sequence of the murders and they don't want that information out there. TOD is usually a calculation made based on autopsy results and other details and evidence from the crime scene and investigation.

Yes, they should amend the TOD on the death certificate, but it's not unusual to change it later on. LE has said they are not going to reveal that information to the public. That's the decision we're stuck with.

Re bags on hands, yes those are done to preserve fingernails, etc. so evidence can be retrieved. They're not going to clip nails at the crime scene - that's the ME's job, to be done in a sterile,controlled environment by a professional. It's also done then to protect the chain of custody for evidence. It's SOP - standard operating procedure.

Yes, the ME examined the hands properly. They're the person trained to do this, to properly record the information and retrieve the evidence without destroying it. Chaotic, messy crime scenes are not the place to clip fingernails for evidence. Bag the hands and feet and send them to the ME.

 

[Betty P]

I have been following this tragedy for almost 2 years now. Two years and no arrests?!!!! Were these murders the ‘perfect crime’ ? Two years and not one suspect? What is going on? Is this a cover up by the police department? What is going on in Ohio?!!!



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So true. With each passing year LE becomes more secretive. All around we see the feds making progress, breaking up drug rings, etc., but nothing on the Rhoden murders. Total silence. No pleas for information, no mention of the reward fund. It's almost like they've "moved on" to other things.

 

[Nickandnora]

I see where you are coming from with the waking up. I think there were two folks though. One took care of HHG and the other FR.

One took care of GR and the other, seemed to have to empty the magazine, on CR1, or maybe they just wanted to empty the magazine on him.

At KR's he likely told them to come on in, and was sitting on the edge of his bed.

At DR's, one took care of DR in the front room, as one went to HMR's room. It was said the baby was laying near her. I think they picked the babies up and moved them, then put them back. It would just take a swift grab of the infant, to move the child, shoot the parent(s), and then replace the baby. I do believe that CR1 heard them, and was still awake, so, he hid between the wall and the bed. Then they went to his room.

LE didn't find CR2 for hours. I remember LM being agitated that they couldn't find CR2 for so long. JM's wife said that JM spoke of seeing DR's leg, as he started to go inside, and heard the baby crying, but he didn't want to see his niece "like that", so he didn't go inside.

These were folks who I'd bet had firearms of their own, and/or a baseball bat, or two. Whoever planned this, had put some effort into it all. I'e wondered if the one shot, to KR, was to make it look like a murder/suicide, but they failed.

The staying over at all times and days, iirc, KR was supposed to spend the night with HMR, but, as she was following HMR home, KR's bf got a toothache, and they turned around and went back home. She then ended up taking a babysitting job that night.

I have been told that CR 1,FR, and KR had fire arms at arms length, so with that being said, a very strong possibility is that CR1 heard a ruckus and came out of his bedroom locked and loaded, this is where maybe the second shell casing came from. The invaders took CR1 gun with them,(my guess) KR gun is also missing and who knows about FR guns

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Dr. David Kessler, IIRC, explained the TOD's in his deposition for the newspapers lawsuits to open the AR's. They used the time of LE discovery/verification as place holders, so to speak, pending the outcome of the investigation. They probably determined approximate times of death after the autopsies, but have chosen not to reveal that information to the public. Most likely, that's because it would reveal the sequence of the murders and they don't want that information out there. TOD is usually a calculation made based on autopsy results and other details and evidence from the crime scene and investigation.

Yes, they should amend the TOD on the death certificate, but it's not unusual to change it later on. LE has said they are not going to reveal that information to the public. That's the decision we're stuck with.

Re bags on hands, yes those are done to preserve fingernails, etc. so evidence can be retrieved. They're not going to clip nails at the crime scene - that's the ME's job, to be done in a sterile,controlled environment by a professional. It's also done then to protect the chain of custody for evidence. It's SOP - standard operating procedure.

Yes, the ME examined the hands properly. They're the person trained to do this, to properly record the information and retrieve the evidence without destroying it. Chaotic, messy crime scenes are not the place to clip fingernails for evidence. Bag the hands and feet and send them to the ME.

Did I even insinuate the nails should be clipped at the crime scene? So, they covered the hands with paper bags, covered the corpse or keep it in the body bag, do whatever they'd do, put the bodies in refrigeration - not "sterile" I presume - and start the next day (23rd at 9:22 am) with the body "cool to the touch from refrigeration".
They also started CRsr. external on one day (24th), put him away and the next day (25th) at the crack of....oh errr, at 8:36 am. continued the external and did the internal.

I understand how things work and what's done. I know why a paper bag is placed on the hands. Never mind. My horse is beaten to death and shot.

 

[Dudly]

I found an old link to some CNN videos about this case from very early on. They all seem to be in working order. I like the one where DeWine says they will not leave until the case is solved...

https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/01/health/ohio-murders-pike-county/

 

[smitty1234]

Can't see this case being solved..................Not real sure LE is even trying !!!

 

[Betty P]

[/B]

Did I even insinuate the nails should be clipped at the crime scene? So, they covered the hands with paper bags, covered the corpse or keep it in the body bag, do whatever they'd do, put the bodies in refrigeration - not "sterile" I presume - and start the next day (23rd at 9:22 am) with the body "cool to the touch from refrigeration".
They also started CRsr. external on one day (24th), put him away and the next day (25th) at the crack of....oh errr, at 8:36 am. continued the external and did the internal.

I understand how things work and what's done. I know why a paper bag is placed on the hands. Never mind. My horse is beaten to death and shot.

My apologies for misunderstanding what you wrote. Will try to read again and see if I understand what you're pointing out.

 

[amauet1]

Another interesting comment from LE. I know we discussed it before, but never got a good explanation

Rhodens scoff at Pike County sheriff's comments


https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...scoff-pike-county-sheriffs-comments/88507184/






Who does Reader think would have killed them? As Tony Rhoden points out, its highly unlikely the killers would return to town to kill the children they had left alive before.

Family members discovered them and they didn't kill them.

Who did Reader think was going to come back and murder the small children? Or was that just an excuse?

I believe he did that to keep them from their family. Now which ones, I don't know.

 

[amauet1]

I see where you are coming from with the waking up. I think there were two folks though. One took care of HHG and the other FR.

One took care of GR and the other, seemed to have to empty the magazine, on CR1, or maybe they just wanted to empty the magazine on him.

At KR's he likely told them to come on in, and was sitting on the edge of his bed.

At DR's, one took care of DR in the front room, as one went to HMR's room. It was said the baby was laying near her. I think they picked the babies up and moved them, then put them back. It would just take a swift grab of the infant, to move the child, shoot the parent(s), and then replace the baby. I do believe that CR1 heard them, and was still awake, so, he hid between the wall and the bed. Then they went to his room.

LE didn't find CR2 for hours. I remember LM being agitated that they couldn't find CR2 for so long. JM's wife said that JM spoke of seeing DR's leg, as he started to go inside, and heard the baby crying, but he didn't want to see his niece "like that", so he didn't go inside.

These were folks who I'd bet had firearms of their own, and/or a baseball bat, or two. Whoever planned this, had put some effort into it all. I'e wondered if the one shot, to KR, was to make it look like a murder/suicide, but they failed.

The staying over at all times and days, iirc, KR was supposed to spend the night with HMR, but, as she was following HMR home, KR's bf got a toothache, and they turned around and went back home. She then ended up taking a babysitting job that night.

LM, good ole LM saying in almost a bragging way , that "they" had to send in those (dumb implied) LE back in to DR's 3 times before they found CRjr. I guess he most have followed or went with JM that morning , because how did he know about what was going on at Dana's and where everyone was found? Maybe those cell phones everyone carry's. I have "heard" that CRjr's room was the one in front as you walk in it was to the right. Making it a possibility for him to maybe run out of the house, as they were taking care of HMR and Dana. Just a thought. And the tooth ache thing, I just don't buy that one. Drive all the way there, spend time with HMR and then turn around and go back home. No , Just No.
I don't believe any of the excuses that were given (LE, Media) about that night. Which to me means, Mer**** Gill***, Kendra R and her bf, Jake Wagner, Chel*** Rob*****, all made up their stories. The Manleys, LM, BJM, JM, and their spouses and friends all know something about what went down that night/morning. CM I have heard was with them and an EMS or had worked as one in the past, did not go in and check for survivors? To me someone in the medical field that came upon that situation and did nothing is ridiculious! And the victims being family, makes it even more so. JMO

 

[amauet1]

Another interesting article from way back.

Public records belong to public 27 July 2016

http://www.starbeacon.com/opinion/e...cle_8b401f36-31e6-564d-b5c3-c1a761e38763.html

An editorial in support of the Cincinnati Enquirer and Columbus Dispatch in their lawsuit to view the unredacted Rhoden autopsy reports. Tony Rhoden and the family wanted them to be released to the new media and the family (who didn't have them)



So why was LE saying that the family didn't want them released? I just keep getting the feeling the surviving Rhoden family member have been manipulated so much.

This is what I mean Betty, so much was said and reported, but know we are to consider it "rumor" or not true. It appears to me that LE/BCI are trying to get someone/s in the families to talk by holding back what is important to them. The kids, properties, homes/trailers and personal effects. Again another reason to believe "family" was in these murders. And some video's and media reports are just gone.

 

[amauet1]

I just want to apologize for jumping in here and starting the whole conspiracy/bizarre theory stuff again. People probably have had enough of that. I'm sure there is sooo much the public doesn't know.
Some things are odd. Are not right. Show incompetence. All, of course, IMO.

I didn't see the death certificates, but, as mentioned, the TOD was given as in and around 8-ish for everyone, depending on when they were found.
I'm under the assumption that a death cert is a legal document and the TOD on this LEGAL document should be as accurate as possible. Like, use body temp to extrapolate an estimated TOD.
Why bother to release a death cert if it doesn't say much more than the severely redacted autopsy results, and, obviously doesn't appear to be a very "legal" or "official" document. Public record and all, I get it.

Everyone had been presented with a horrific scene, BUT, there's certain things that are textbook CSI. Those people are trained for that. If they weren't prepared to do that, someone else should have. It's obvious this didn't happen on it's own, therefore, there's someone out there that did. Doing Annie Git Yer Gun is OK and they felt it was necessary for the remaining family members.

Are you gonna treat it like a crime scene, or, contaminate possible evidence by tramping all over everything?

I start getting into all the BS and incompetent practices I mentioned in a prior post.

In the autopsy, victims had bags on their hands, YET, the ME is taking them off and describing the nails, etc. Shouldn't CSI have gone over the bodies for trace evidence and clipped the nails all the way down, etc, BEFORE the autopsy? Why for the love of all that is good would they still have bags on their hands when CSI should have done their jobs before.

I'm starting up again. LOL

IMO, whoever the "powers that be" are, they KNEW they weren't gonna solve this, and just maybe, they didn't have all those "hundreds" of people on the case, and just maybe, they didn't care that much after all.
So, with this much time passing by - supposed investigative work, lab analysis, manpower, etc. and the best they come up with is the Wagners. SMDH

I'm shootin this dead horse.

IMO, this whole investigation has been one giant STALL TACTIC! If they can't get it solved , then send somebody in who can! And did anyone see one of Mr. Dewines election campaign spots, that said "I care about LIFE in Ohio? Enough said.

 

[Betty P]

This is what I mean Betty, so much was said and reported, but know we are to consider it "rumor" or not true. It appears to me that LE/BCI are trying to get someone/s in the families to talk by holding back what is important to them. The kids, properties, homes/trailers and personal effects. Again another reason to believe "family" was in these murders. And some video's and media reports are just gone.

Yes, their tactics haven't worked. They've arrested many, questioned and issued SWs for all and have probably pulled many in to testify before grand juries (where the law requires they answer questions or face arrest and jail time). One can only imagine what the surviving family members have been put through in the last 2 years. JMO, if there was something they knew, they would have told it by now.

I wonder if it would be possible for the families to sue in court to get new investigators on the case, to force LE to share more information about the murders. If everyone had a fund raiser for them, they could even hire their own private investigator to look into the massacre.

Other than Sheriff Reader, does BCI have anyone working on the case anymore?

 

[Dudly]

LM, good ole LM saying in almost a bragging way , that "they" had to send in those (dumb implied) LE back in to DR's 3 times before they found CRjr. I guess he most have followed or went with JM that morning , because how did he know about what was going on at Dana's and where everyone was found? Maybe those cell phones everyone carry's. I have "heard" that CRjr's room was the one in front as you walk in it was to the right. Making it a possibility for him to maybe run out of the house, as they were taking care of HMR and Dana. Just a thought. And the tooth ache thing, I just don't buy that one. Drive all the way there, spend time with HMR and then turn around and go back home. No , Just No.
I don't believe any of the excuses that were given (LE, Media) about that night. Which to me means, Mer**** Gill***, Kendra R and her bf, Jake Wagner, Chel*** Rob*****, all made up their stories. The Manleys, LM, BJM, JM, and their spouses and friends all know something about what went down that night/morning. CM I have heard was with them and an EMS or had worked as one in the past, did not go in and check for survivors? To me someone in the medical field that came upon that situation and did nothing is ridiculious! And the victims being family, makes it even more so. JMO

I've wondered how he knew that about CRjr, also. Made me wonder what else he knew. I also believe JM saw more than his wife says he saw. I think LM and JM were both inside several scenes. As far as the "should have been there" stories, I can say I was supposed to be there that night. They all got interviewed by the news media for saying that. No Rhodens are around to say it wasn't true...

 

[Betty P]

LM, good ole LM saying in almost a bragging way , that "they" had to send in those (dumb implied) LE back in to DR's 3 times before they found CRjr. I guess he most have followed or went with JM that morning , because how did he know about what was going on at Dana's and where everyone was found? Maybe those cell phones everyone carry's. I have "heard" that CRjr's room was the one in front as you walk in it was to the right. Making it a possibility for him to maybe run out of the house, as they were taking care of HMR and Dana. Just a thought. And the tooth ache thing, I just don't buy that one. Drive all the way there, spend time with HMR and then turn around and go back home. No , Just No.
I don't believe any of the excuses that were given (LE, Media) about that night. Which to me means, Mer**** Gill***, Kendra R and her bf, Jake Wagner, Chel*** Rob*****, all made up their stories. The Manleys, LM, BJM, JM, and their spouses and friends all know something about what went down that night/morning. CM I have heard was with them and an EMS or had worked as one in the past, did not go in and check for survivors? To me someone in the medical field that came upon that situation and did nothing is ridiculious! And the victims being family, makes it even more so. JMO

I don't think LM went in DR's trailer. LE arrived very quickly, they would have seen him. Recall from the timeline, JM flagged down one of the cars that was responding to BJM's 911 call. As BJM was standing in the doorway of DR's house, he could probably hear the sirens of the cars coming up UHR.

LM probably came up there right away and was there when LE was searching the home. Since everyone else they had found that morning had been shot in their sleep (I'm pretty sure BJM called JM and told him what she found at CR1 & FR's trailers), LM (and everyone else) probably assumed the same about CR2. It was early morning, 4 other people have been found dead inside their trailers, one dead person is found inside DR's, its logical. When LE kept coming out saying they couldn't find him, I'm sure LM was frustrated and told them to keep looking. Where else would he be at 7 am? No inside knowledge, just logic and reasoning.

No doubt emotions were running high that morning among the family members and LM was very upset. He and others long had a mistrust of some LE in the community and for good reason. There was a pretty long history of corruption in the Pike County SD. And any time you have bad police, it's usually the poorest folks in the community who get picked on the most. As LM said to the news media "they've been covering stuff up here for years". He's been determined to make sure they don't cover up the death of his daughter and grandkids, I can understand why he gets emotional about that.

If family members were involved, LE has had 2 years to find enough evidence to arrest them. They're poor people with no power or money, LE has no reason to protect them. If they could have arrested them, the would have. They're young people, not criminal geniuses, experienced at killing 8 people.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Yes, their tactics haven't worked. They've arrested many, questioned and issued SWs for all and have probably pulled many in to testify before grand juries (where the law requires they answer questions or face arrest and jail time). One can only imagine what the surviving family members have been put through in the last 2 years. JMO, if there was something they knew, they would have told it by now.

I wonder if it would be possible for the families to sue in court to get new investigators on the case, to force LE to share more information about the murders. If everyone had a fund raiser for them, they could even hire their own private investigator to look into the massacre.

Other than Sheriff Reader, does BCI have anyone working on the case anymore?

Betty P, you hit the nail on the head. This is kinda what I was trying to say - in a round about way. I apologize for being rude to you in my comment.
Just coming out and boom! Naming specifically the Wagners. I don't doubt there's some connection, but, what happened to all their "sophisticated" stuff they were bantering about. I mean I understand what they were saying, but, after 2 years THAT'S what they came up with?? I'm pretty positive the locals knew that almost from the get go. It seemed like they (LE) didn't have any real urgency in solving this. I mean 8 people slaughtered. Even the autopsies - no urgency. Business as usual. That's another thing I was trying to say. IDK
I'm not so sure about some the M family - maybe even other R's. But, they are all still family members in this terrible tragedy.

 

[RichP]

[/B]

Did I even insinuate the nails should be clipped at the crime scene? So, they covered the hands with paper bags, covered the corpse or keep it in the body bag, do whatever they'd do, put the bodies in refrigeration - not "sterile" I presume - and start the next day (23rd at 9:22 am) with the body "cool to the touch from refrigeration".
They also started CRsr. external on one day (24th), put him away and the next day (25th) at the crack of....oh errr, at 8:36 am. continued the external and did the internal.

I understand how things work and what's done. I know why a paper bag is placed on the hands. Never mind. My horse is beaten to death and shot.

In the autopsy, victims had bags on their hands, YET, the ME is taking them off and describing the nails, etc. Shouldn't CSI have gone over the bodies for trace evidence and clipped the nails all the way down, etc, BEFORE the autopsy? Why for the love of all that is good would they still have bags on their hands when CSI should have done their jobs before.

That statement sure seems to me that you did. CSI [crime scene investigators] look at things and take evidence of all sorts at the crime scene. Then the body is released to the ME.

Before the first autopsy cut is made the ME does a visual inspection of body including nail scrapings. Don't know where you get the idea that the ME taking bags off somehow compromises the evidence.

 

[pearl]

I don't think anything is taken from a deceased body until the autopsy is being performed. ME scraps or clips nails during the autopsy procedure. Also, I think, anything that is put into a deceased's body is left there for the ME to remove and document.