OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #36 *Arrests*

[Pam2964]

A key part linking them to the silencer was leaving part or parts of it at least one scene. Why bother with the casings if you are going to leave some other part? And here we were convinced this was the work of a mastermind!

I am beginning to understand why they needed to lock up their mobile homes.

 

[cds0902]

Why exactly would 4 accused mass murderers plan for months in advance to include hacking computers, phones, security systems, and having counter surveillance in place against the victims be stupid enough to keep a homemade silencer built by them and used in the murders?

From the indictments stating the defendants bought items to make the silencer(s) we can assume that they built them. That means they knew how to put them together and in turn would know how to dismantle the silencers.

Honestly how ignorant could they be? To travel 8,000 miles round trip to Alaska and back through no mans land, yet keep a silencer that they built. I can’t wrap my mind around it. I don’t have the mindset of a murderer (Thank God) but I do have common sense and common sense would say take the silencer apart and get rid of each piece across thousands of miles of desolate country while en route to Alaska.

The Wagner’s are IGNORANT -thankfully.

JMHO

They definitely were not as meticulous after the act as they were before!! Perhaps adrenaline clouded their actions.

 

[rsd1200]

I’m going to try to say this without breaking TOS. Mods, please delete if I don’t get it right and accept my apology in advance.

There is a public social media share with a very interesting comment. It’s on the most popular social media sight that most of us have.

To find it, follow these steps. There’s is a person who’s been named in the VRT suspicious death as a suspect (JK). It’s not him but the post is located on an account with the same first name as his however it has the word “and” attached to his first name (no space). After typing that name combined with the word “and” , proceed to type space and type the word that is the opposite of devil. Followed by the last name of the famous Coco Chanel, minus the L Chane(L) and add a Y. This post is a public share of a news article surrounding this case with some interesting perspective on a borrowed truck the night of the murders.

I believe I've seen the one you speak of. If it's the same one I've seen, I do not believe for a second, it is the drawing of "sketch artist". However, based on that post, about that vehicle, and that night of the murders, I've a feeling that the W's spread the love around, in attempting to throw off suspicion. It's also quite possible that JM's vehicle was not the only that had a tracker on it at some point. JM just happened to find his, and by removing it, could have made it appear that he too had a "bug buster", hence his arrest for tampering, and visit to the Grand Jury.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Why do all the other murderers and criminals get caught? It's usually something stupid like this. It could have been a trophy of sorts, kinda like the hunting trophies on their walls at Peterson. One of them may have kept it, as a trophy, and the others may not have even known they did.

Then again, if they needed one to put their plot into motion, to kill the Sheriff and two others, they already had one available. It's very possible the CI ran across it, or overheard where it was, and told LE.

For future use....never thought of that. Interesting.

 

[rsd1200]

I am wondering if the "part" left behind was the "stuffing material" inside the silencer chamber to muffle the sound. My son made a silencer for his paint ball rifle when he was 13 or 14... and made it quite easily with materials in the garage, so they're not difficult to make. (I didn't know what he was making.) When he tested it, some of the steel wool fibers came out of the barrel due to the pressure and landed on the ground where it was very visible. He wanted to patent the silencer to sell to other paint-ballers and get rich overnight. When I saw what he had made, I had a conniption. It never occurred to him that what he had made was illegal.
BTW... we didn't hang onto this "invention" like the Wagners did. It came apart just as easily as it went together and went out in the trash. The same day it was used, too.

You can own a silencer, but there are certain steps to complete, to owning one legally. I'm sure that the Ws did not follow rule of law, in obtaining/building theirs. I agree though, when you shoot, buts of what I call "fluff" will come off of them. They probably never thought about that being able to be traced, nor that anyone would know about the silencer that was kept, to trace it back to.

While the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) primarily uses the words firearm muffler or silencer, I prefer the term suppressor. Suppressors are legal for Ohio residents to own but not legal for hunting use.

Note: they became legal for hunting use in 2015.

Suppressors are tightly controlled through the BATFE. Anyone wishing to possess a suppressor in Ohio must first obtain the signature of the county sheriff or controlling law enforcement officer approving the application. Next the application is sent to the BATFE for the federal background check. There is a tax fee of $200. Typically it takes several months for the process to be completed. Each application is specific to one suppressor. Want to buy another suppressor? The process, and the $200 fee, must be completed for each suppressor.

Introduction to Firearm Suppressors | Buckeye Firearms Association

 

[RickshawFan]

They might let one plea out, to get the dirt on the rest, but I think that they will want this taken to trial, unless the family agrees to a plea. I don't see the pleading out though. I think they'll fight it til the bitter end.

Unless they plead guilty in return for LWOP, taking the DP off the table. This is a pretty common solution, AFAIK, that saves a huge amount of $$$ and heartache. This is what's happened in the Colorado case of the man who killed his wife and 2 daughters and then threw the kids in oil storage tanks. Chris Watts: guilty and LWOP.
However, the W's may be so arrogant they think they can get away with the murder, even at trial.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

So true. I remember thinking, as the days went by 2.5 years ago, that the killers must have eliminated any evidence that very same day. I thought that the killers would have had someplace already prepared like a deep fire pit already dug out where they burned it all and then covered it with earth... that nothing would ever be found. I looked at the area by Google Earth and thought... "Forget it. There's miles and miles of nothing but woods and any evidence was gone within hours of the murders. Anybody would do that first."
But, I wasn't thinking of all the electronic gadgets, shoes, etc. that left such a great trail. However, Governor DeWine did say the silencer was pivotal to the case so I'm glad someone was unable to give up the fancy silencer he made 'all by himself, too!'... or was just plain too lazy and overconfident. Even in the movies, they should have learned; the gun is the first thing to ditch and the clothing next and when you don't ditch the gun; it comes back.

I kind of have a theory about that silencer. I think it was overlooked when they were disposing of evidence. A silencer would not have been a big item so it would have been easy to overlook. After all killing 8 people in one night took some work. And even if the W's are psychopaths they still had to have been affected by what they did. They were probably excited, riding an adrenaline high. In that state it would have been very easy to overlook a small silencer.

Another theory I have is Billy kept it to sell. Remember what the neighbor said about him? That Billy was always trying to sell him something. Maybe after all the money and work he put into the silencer he thought he could sell it at a later date and get some money out of it.

Keep in mind the W's probably did not know LE could match up the materials of a silencer. (I did not know they could.) After all a silencer is not like the barrel of a gun in which casings can be matched to the rifling of that barrel. The inside of the silencer would not leave any marks on the casing or shell of a bullet that was fired through it. Besides they used shell catchers and probably did not think LE had any shells or casings to match it to. Also in the dark the W's may not have been able to see some of the "fluff" or stuffing come out of the silencer when the gun was fired. I am even willing to bet that forensics recovered that bit of silencer material from inside one or more of the bullet wounds in the victims. If so there was no way the W's could have known LE had that. So they probably thought it was safe to keep the silencers. And maybe even wait a couple of years and sell one to a neighbor who instantly turned it over to LE.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

I am beginning to understand why they needed to lock up their mobile homes.

I know it was odd, but it was the safest way to keep everything intact. I think there is something they may feel that they want to physically show a jury, in those trailers. If they'd left them, arson could've been a real possibility.

 

[rsd1200]

Unless they plead guilty in return for LWOP, taking the DP off the table. This is a pretty common solution, AFAIK, that saves a huge amount of $$$ and heartache. This is what's happened in the Colorado case of the man who killed his wife and 2 daughters and then threw the kids in oil storage tanks. Chris Watts: guilty and LWOP.
However, the W's may be so arrogant they think they can get away with the murder, even at trial.

I think the Ws will fight it tooth and toenail. If anyone breaks, I think it will be a son, JW is my guess. Possibly mom though, to ask to remove the DP from her son's cases. One parent may take the brunt of the charges, saying it was my idea, I'm the trigger man, to get the DP off the table for the others, too. I just don't see pleas happening for all four, but, I could be wrong. If I were family, I'd want to watch them sweat on the stand, unless I felt they didn't have enough to convict them at a trial. I think the Ws highly underestimated, their local LED, BCI, and anyone else working this case. It ain't over til it's over, but just from the indictments, it looks like they have a pretty good case against them.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

A key part linking them to the silencer was leaving part or parts of it at least one scene. Why bother with the casings if you are going to leave some other part? And here we were convinced this was the work of a mastermind!

I think the part they left was "fluff" or stuffing that flew out when the bullet went through it. I think that is what Reader said. That "fluff" may have been recovered from the bullet wounds in the victims. So therefore the W's would not have seen it or know they left anything behind.

Once LE recovered the silencer all they had to do was forensically match the materials.

Billy may have not known about the "fluff" and sold the silencer to someone. Since LE had been asking for people to come forward with any dealing they had with the W's if Billy did sell it to someone they would have probably turned it over to LE ASAP.

JMO

 

[Dudly]

I don't think he took her by force. I almost think he already had her. We kept a grandchild, for a few days, when a new one was born, so that Mom could get settled. It is said he brought S to the hospital to see K. The only one they were fighting over about not coming, publicly, anyway, was CG. HMR was adamant that he not come.

Going in and just taking S could have caused a major disruption in their plans that night. What if HMR had called LE? Too big of a chance. I think he'd been Mr. Nice Guy, and she'd allowed him around because of S. You can see from their public FBs, at least public in the beginning, that he had her often. We try to get along sometimes for our children's sake. No one knew what they were plotting.

I don't think he took her by force but made her think she had no choice.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I believe I've seen the one you speak of. If it's the same one I've seen, I do not believe for a second, it is the drawing of "sketch artist". However, based on that post, about that vehicle, and that night of the murders, I've a feeling that the W's spread the love around, in attempting to throw off suspicion. It's also quite possible that JM's vehicle was not the only that had a tracker on it at some point. JM just happened to find his, and by removing it, could have made it appear that he too had a "bug buster", hence his arrest for tampering, and visit to the Grand Jury.

I’ve seen that “sketch” as well. Not anything I put credit in. What I’m trying to relay is the new owners of the vehicle used by the W’s that was sold to said new owners after the murders. I accidentally gave the wrong info anyways cause I’m frazzled today.

What I should have said is there’s a public share from last Wednesday. Type in the nickname that Angela’s Wagner’s first name sometimes could be, second part is like Fort Bragg minus the Fort, last and third name is like Chanel, delete the L and type a Y.

 

[Dudly]

A key part linking them to the silencer was leaving part or parts of it at least one scene. Why bother with the casings if you are going to leave some other part? And here we were convinced this was the work of a mastermind!

Small amounts of the sound dampening material comes out with the bullet on some homemade silencers. That material was found at the scenes.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I’ve seen that “sketch” as well. Not anything I put credit in. What I’m trying to relay is the new owners of the vehicle used by the W’s that was sold to said new owners after the murders. I accidentally gave the wrong info anyways cause I’m frazzled today.

What I should have said is there’s a public share from last Wednesday. Type in the nickname that Angela’s Wagner’s first name sometimes could be, second part is like Fort Bragg minus the Fort, last and third name is like Chanel, delete the L and type a Y.

AW’s post selling the vehicle 6 months after the murders.

Angela Wagner

 

[PlainJane1]

Unless they plead guilty in return for LWOP, taking the DP off the table. This is a pretty common solution, AFAIK, that saves a huge amount of $$$ and heartache. This is what's happened in the Colorado case of the man who killed his wife and 2 daughters and then threw the kids in oil storage tanks. Chris Watts: guilty and LWOP.
However, the W's may be so arrogant they think they can get away with the murder, even at trial.

My parents were good friends with another couple for many years. A few years ago, their former son-in-law broke into their home, murdered both of them, stole money and jewelry and then set the house on fire. There was so much evidence on this man but the Ohio prosecutor talked the family into accepting a plea deal in lieu of the DP. His reasoning was that even though it was obvious that this man committed the murders, he said you never could tell what a jury would do and didn’t want to risk it. I hope this doesn’t happen in this case.

I’m not a big believer in the death penalty, but in this case, I think they should do their time watching the calendar get closer to an execution date.

 

[rsd1200]

AW’s post selling the vehicle 6 months after the murders.

Angela Wagner

Puts it on FB SALES, on the INTERNET, AND THEN, leaves it UP after she sold it! What an imbecile.

 

[almond]

AW’s post selling the vehicle 6 months after the murders.

Angela Wagner

I've seen the vehicle on SM also and oddly enough it does look like the one in the drawing.

 

[almond]

AW’s post selling the vehicle 6 months after the murders.

Angela Wagner

Have you seen a photo of items taken from it by the FBI? That's interesting stuff, no idea what's true though. moo

 

[Deleted member 158085]

One thing that crossed my mind the other day was that there is a possibility that because the county is so sparsely populated some posters on here from the area may be called for jury duty in the trial.

If so, would it be necessary that they disclose their presence on WebSleuths since opinions and theories have been thrown around on here for 2 1/2 years?

What does everyone think?

I would think so. And hey, I’ll pocket that idea for future use in getting out of jury duty!

 

[rsd1200]

I've seen the vehicle on SM also and oddly enough it does look like the one in the drawing.

It does!!! There was even a sketch of someone in the vehicle in one of the drawings wasn't there? I just don't think the drawing is by a "sketch artist", at least not the kind I've in mind.