OH OH - Roberta 'Bobby' Snider, 70, Hartville, 4 Jan 2018 *Guilty*

[flute4peace]

Am I the only one who thought perhaps he is in the hospital because of an attempted suicide? Whether he played a part in the death of his wife or it was a natural death, he might be feeling a huge amount of guilt right now for tossing her body over a bridge. :moo:

I think it's plausible. Or even just a collapse due to the weight of the situation, especially if there's a cognitive component.

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[JazzTune]

Amen to that. I have an elderly relative whose depression and anxiety got completely out of hand last year - she wouldn’t do anything, she cried all day every day, wasn’t sleeping and was suicidal. Her daughter never could get her admitted to a psych unit. It was ridiculous.

I'm so sorry and sad to read this. I worked on an adult inpatient, locked psychiatric unit of a regular hospital for the last 15 years of my nursing career. Was Charge Nurse for the last 7.

I believe this would not have happened at our hospital unless our unit was completely full.

We had a separate Intake Assessment group whose only job was to evaluate all potential patients for admission. They assessed them in the ER, or as walk-ins at their office 24/7.

Whenever anyone told our Intake Assessment nurse they were suicidal and could not contract for safety outside the hospital, ( which meant they could not say they could protect themselves from self-harm, ) they were admitted to our unit.

Danger to self or others was the criteria for admission.

The only way the situation you described could have happened with us, would have been if your elderly relative, herself was completely lucid and then denied she was suicidal at the time of assessment.

People did that sometimes. They made suicidal threats to their families, but changed their minds when they were brought in for assessment.

It sounds like she did meet admission criteria though, and I'm so sorry they weren't able to get her the help she needed. Sounds terrible for both of them.

Not an easy road, and I really hope both of them are doing better now...

 

[JazzTune]

Thanks for the kind words, JazzTune. I just felt sarcasm was out of place in such a serious matter. Of course no one thinks that a hospital is like a retail transaction or a hotel. We have had suspects in the past right here at WS who checked themselves into the hospital to delay facing the music. I am almost 68 yrs. old with Medicare and very good supplemental insurance. I guarantee you I could go into the hospital this very night were I so inclined.

I want Bobby/Roberta found. She deserves better than this. Phillip was apparently in good enough health to make a long round-trip drive and even heave his wife over a railing into a river. I find it curious he needs hospitalization now. MOO

I'm very much okay with someone not agreeing with me. That doesn't matter. I just don't like sarcasm in a serious matter or being talked down to.

Been here at WS along time and love you all!

MOO

Thank you, and very well-said! I'm still hoping it was more a situation of misconstruing than anything else, but your feelings are very understandable nevertheless.

You have much to offer, and I hope you stick around and share your insight...

 

[watergirl62]

Thanks for the kind words, JazzTune. I just felt sarcasm was out of place in such a serious matter. Of course no one thinks that a hospital is like a retail transaction or a hotel. We have had suspects in the past right here at WS who checked themselves into the hospital to delay facing the music. I am almost 68 yrs. old with Medicare and very good supplemental insurance. I guarantee you I could go into the hospital this very night were I so inclined.

I want Bobby/Roberta found. She deserves better than this. Phillip was apparently in good enough health to make a long round-trip drive and even heave his wife over a railing into a river. I find it curious he needs hospitalization now. MOO

I'm very much okay with someone not agreeing with me. That doesn't matter. I just don't like sarcasm in a serious matter or being talked down to.

Been here at WS along time and love you all!

MOO

I just started reading this thread, but it's nice to see you posting LaLaw! I always liked to read your take on things, it's been a while. [emoji112]

Poor woman, what an awful scenario to end ones life with, headlines and all. I suppose the beauty in the tragedy here is that it is such a bizarro story that it caught so many people's attention. I hope someone finds her soon.

Where are you, Roberta?

 

[Philigumbo]

With his wife deceased, the long trip he made with his deceased wife decomposing in his truck, throwing his wife of 53 years off a bridge, and the ensuing investigation, along with his age, I would not be surprised if this man was hospitalized with a STROKE. I’m sorry, but what the h-e-double hockey sticks was he thinking? The obituary just adds to the craziness, like it was all just normality. I have all empathy for Bobbie’s family trying to sort through this mess while also trying to grieve her death.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Am I the only one who thought perhaps he is in the hospital because of an attempted suicide? Whether he played a part in the death of his wife or it was a natural death, he might be feeling a huge amount of guilt right now for tossing her body over a bridge. :moo:

It reminds me of the woman prison guard who helped the NY inmates escape. She got cold feet the night of the escape and went to the ER with a panic attack. She was admitted and kept overnight for observation.

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[JaneEyre]

I'm so sorry and sad to read this. I worked on an adult inpatient, locked psychiatric unit of a regular hospital for the last 15 years of my nursing career. Was Charge Nurse for the last 7.

I believe this would not have happened at our hospital unless our unit was completely full.

We had a separate Intake Assessment group whose only job was to evaluate all potential patients for admission. They assessed them in the ER, or as walk-ins at their office 24/7.

Whenever anyone told our Intake Assessment nurse they were suicidal and could not contract for safety outside the hospital, ( which meant they could not say they could protect themselves from self-harm, ) they were admitted to our unit.

Danger to self or others was the criteria for admission.

The only way the situation you described could have happened with us, would have been if your elderly relative, herself was completely lucid and then denied she was suicidal at the time of assessment.

People did that sometimes. They made suicidal threats to their families, but changed their minds when they were brought in for assessment.

It sounds like she did meet admission criteria though, and I'm so sorry they weren't able to get her the help she needed. Sounds terrible for both of them.

Not an easy road, and I really hope both of them are doing better now...

Where I am in the country, there is not enough space to admit adults anywhere for suicidal behavior. My mother worked in the medical field and almost every time they tried to get an adult in, there was never enough space.

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[meanmaryjean]

I thought meanmaryjean was saying, you can't get someone else admitted to a hospital.because you think they should be checked out if that person doesn't agree. But I might be wrong.

That is exactly what I meant. Thank you.

 

[always reading]

Where I am in the country, there is not enough space to admit adults anywhere for suicidal behavior. My mother worked in the medical field and almost every time they tried to get an adult in, there was never enough space.

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Fortunately we have several places. The hospital I work in has a whole floor for mental health. I live in a large city though. I think that might make a difference.

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[JaneEyre]

Fortunately we have several places. The hospital I work in has a whole floor for mental health. I live in a large city though. I think that might make a difference.

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I've had experience with this for in two areas of the country and I also have friends in the northeast who struggle to get their adolescent son admitted when he turns violent. In one case, the man was walking around naked, had a psychotic break. He had to be taken in a car with child locks so he could not jump out. Psychiatrist said it was a psychotic break. Yet he was sent home in this condition rather than being admitted. Scary for the person having to watch him.

From what I have read and seen, the majority of the country has an issue with space and resources for people to be admitted for psych and behavioral issues. If your area isn't constantly under-resourced in this area, then that is an exception and you are lucky.

Further, in my area, despite being a hub of 4 cities that make up a metropolitan area, there is a long wait to see an actual psychiatrist (3-4 months). We also do not have a single neurologist in the area that specializes in dementia evaluation. I had to drive my family member elsewhere, and the earliest I could get her evaluated was 2-3 months out.

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[JazzTune]

Where I am in the country, there is not enough space to admit adults anywhere for suicidal behavior. My mother worked in the medical field and almost every time they tried to get an adult in, there was never enough space.

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Fortunately we have several places. The hospital I work in has a whole floor for mental health. I live in a large city though. I think that might make a difference.

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I believe this is a correct assessment. Availability of space is such a big factor. I live in a large urban city also, yet more psychiatric treatment units continue to close their doors. There are only a small handful remaining in our area. Therefore, our patients came from all over the state.

The financial incentive is not there for hospitals to keep them open. Treatment is not cheap, and getting authorization for that treatment from the majority of insurance companies was like pulling teeth for our Intake Assessment Team.

No matter how severe the patient's psychiatric presentation, the Assessment Team felt fortunate to even get a couple days approved. They even had to fight for authorization for those being transferred to us from ICU in the main hospital.

Patients barely awake after major overdoses requiring ventilator support, were fortunate to get approval for longer than a day or so.

Our hospital policy was to admit anyone who presented as a danger to self or others, regardless of their ability to pay. With or without insurance approval. Being a large hospital, they 'ate' the cost.

Many hospitals and communities cannot afford to do that. So unfortunately, the trend continues of fewer and fewer psychiatric beds available.

A huge dilemma with no easy solutions.

As for this case, I agree Philip could very well be in the hospital after making a suicidal threat or attempt. He could also be hospitalized for medical reasons.

Regardless, I do believe it is connected to the fact, in one way or the other, that Roberta is missing...


JMO

 

[Doghairrules]

I'm so sorry and sad to read this. I worked on an adult inpatient, locked psychiatric unit of a regular hospital for the last 15 years of my nursing career. Was Charge Nurse for the last 7.

I believe this would not have happened at our hospital unless our unit was completely full.

We had a separate Intake Assessment group whose only job was to evaluate all potential patients for admission. They assessed them in the ER, or as walk-ins at their office 24/7.

Whenever anyone told our Intake Assessment nurse they were suicidal and could not contract for safety outside the hospital, ( which meant they could not say they could protect themselves from self-harm, ) they were admitted to our unit.

Danger to self or others was the criteria for admission.

The only way the situation you described could have happened with us, would have been if your elderly relative, herself was completely lucid and then denied she was suicidal at the time of assessment.

People did that sometimes. They made suicidal threats to their families, but changed their minds when they were brought in for assessment.

It sounds like she did meet admission criteria though, and I'm so sorry they weren't able to get her the help she needed. Sounds terrible for both of them.

Not an easy road, and I really hope both of them are doing better now...

Yep she denied it. So I was speaking specifically to the issue of being admitted by a family member.

And thanks for your kind words. She is somewhat better but now thinks she is dying of cancer and no one will admit it to her. It’s a sad life and no life at all for her daughter.

 

[JazzTune]

I've had experience with this for in two areas of the country and I also have friends in the northeast who struggle to get their adolescent son admitted when he turns violent. In one case, the man was walking around naked, had a psychotic break. He had to be taken in a car with child locks so he could not jump out. Psychiatrist said it was a psychotic break. Yet he was sent home in this condition rather than being admitted. Scary for the person having to watch him.

From what I have read and seen, the majority of the country has an issue with space and resources for people to be admitted for psych and behavioral issues. If your area isn't constantly under-resourced in this area, then that is an exception and you are lucky.

Further, in my area, despite being a hub of 4 cities that make up a metropolitan area, there is a long wait to see an actual psychiatrist (3-4 months). We also do not have a single neurologist in the area that specializes in dementia evaluation. I had to drive my family member elsewhere, and the earliest I could get her evaluated was 2-3 months out.

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So sorry to read this. Awful what you went through to get help for your relative. Your post is a horrible indictment of psychiatric health care for both adults and adolescents.

Hope your friend's son is better too. I truly empathize with his caretakers during a psychotic break. They are terrifying to witness and manage, even for experienced psychiatric staff. Can't imagine his parents' feelings when he was sent back home!

In my opinion, he should have been kept under observation, even in an ER if necessary, until an adolescent bed was available.

However, the availability of treatment beds for troubled youth and adolescents is even more dismal than adults. I believe it is rising to the level of public health crisis in many cities and communities.

We as a society will continue to bear the brunt of these decisions made by health care administrators and insurance companies, who are increasingly motivated by the financial incentive, or lack thereof.

I realize they have to make money to stay in business, but it seems the ones most easily cut off, are our most fragile and helpless...


JMO

 

[JazzTune]

Yep she denied it. So I was speaking specifically to the issue of being admitted by a family member.

And thanks for your kind words. She is somewhat better but now thinks she is dying of cancer and no one will admit it to her. It’s a sad life and no life at all for her daughter.

Thank you for clarifying. I understand now. You're right too. Family members are not legally allowed to make that judgement. As long as she was rational enough to pass minimal orientation screening, she would be considered competent to state whether she was suicidal or not.

Delusions don't 'count' if they are not considered to pose a risk to her safety.

Getting an MIW, ( Mental Inquest Warrant ) for involuntary hospitalization can be an option for families but is not easy to obtain.

These situations are really hard on families, and I'm so sorry for your relative and her daughter. What a nightmare!

All of this does make me wonder if Philip was in the throes of a psychiatric crisis during all of this.

Maybe I'm just wanting to believe that no one in their right mind could do this to their wife of over 50 years...


JMO

 

[2Hope4]

JMO, but this man doesn't have dementia. I don't know what he did, or when he did it, but his stories aren't worth telling. "IF" someone had dementia, they wouldn't have been able to drive to another state, and back home. Many get lost in their own neighborhood. They typically like familiar, and are afraid of changes, or anything outside of their comfort zone.

I would hope if I ever were gone, my kids would want to know where I was, and stop at nothing until they got answers. I was talking with my sister about this case a few minutes ago, I cannot imagine either parent being gone, and believing the stories we've heard. As Mom would say "That don't bare telling!"

 

[Philigumbo]

Still sounds like a story a drunk person would tell. If he ran over her accidentally, and was drinking....I just feel like if she died naturally, he wouldn’t have put her in the river.

 

[Enchanting_eyes]

The BBM of your post reminds me of what happened to a neighbor of ours about 8 years ago. She had terminal cancer and was a precious lovely woman. She left our subdivision, and traveled by vehicle to a bridge nearby. She pulled her car off the shoulder of the road, and then walked on to the bridge, and climbed up on the concrete railing, and jumped off. It was close to Christmas when it happened. She was in her early 70s. There were fishermen on the other side of the lake that saw her go in. Immediately 911 was called and they searched for her body for weeks. They never found her but did find some of her clothing about 30 miles away from where she went in. The lake she jumped in flows into the Flint River and that is where some of her clothing was found.

IMO

I was just reading this thread. I grew up near the Flint River in GA. Way down in GA, near Alabama and Florida. So if it's around that area, small world seeing someone else near there on here. Sorry for being way off topic.

 

[JazzTune]

JMO, but this man doesn't have dementia. I don't know what he did, or when he did it, but his stories aren't worth telling. "IF" someone had dementia, they wouldn't have been able to drive to another state, and back home. Many get lost in their own neighborhood. They typically like familiar, and are afraid of changes, or anything outside of their comfort zone.

I would hope if I ever were gone, my kids would want to know where I was, and stop at nothing until they got answers. I was talking with my sister about this case a few minutes ago, I cannot imagine either parent being gone, and believing the stories we've heard. As Mom would say "That don't bare telling!"

Still sounds like a story a drunk person would tell. If he ran over her accidentally, and was drinking....I just feel like if she died naturally, he wouldn’t have put her in the river.

Both of your posts make so much sense, and you may be right.

But there's much more to psychiatric impairment than just dementia, and I find myself leaning more and more toward that possibility.

Could he have been on prescription medications and got the doses all mixed up?

This happened quite often with elderly patients on our unit. They didn't have dementia but they just weren't sharp enough to keep their medications straight.

They often came in with a shoebox full of prescription meds! Anyone would have trouble keeping up with that many medications, much less an elderly person, especially if they had impaired vision and trouble reading the labels.

These people ended up taking extra doses of one med, omitting doses of another, and really had no idea what they were doing. Yet they were still oriented. They knew who they were, where they were, and even why they were there.

They'd tell us point blank. "I can't keep these dang pills straight." They even realized they were in grave danger from mixing up their meds so badly.

So many other things too can affect their mental functioning. Poor sleep to the point of going without sleep for days. Was he up with Roberta at all hours if she was that sick herself? Poor nutrition, was he eating?

There's also a disorder we saw called Brief Psychotic Disorder. Here is a link that describes it if anyone wants to read about it.

https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/mental-health-brief-psychotic-disorder#1

It's not Schizophrenia. It's basically a short term psychosis that can result from a reaction to major stress, such as a death of a spouse. It can cause hallucinations and delusions, but fortunately, is not permanent.

I'm not giving Philip a mental illness pass yet; there's so much we don't know. But for the time being, I am leaning that way myself, and just throwing it out there for consideration, at least.

In case he is dealing with any of this, I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt...


JMO

 

[Philigumbo]

Both of your posts make so much sense, and you may be right.

But there's much more to psychiatric impairment than just dementia, and I find myself leaning more and more toward that possibility.

Could he have been on prescription medications and got the doses all mixed up?

This happened quite often with elderly patients on our unit. They didn't have dementia but they just weren't sharp enough to keep their medications straight.

They often came in with a shoebox full of prescription meds! Anyone would have trouble keeping up with that many medications, much less an elderly person, especially if they had impaired vision and trouble reading the labels.

These people ended up taking extra doses of one med, omitting doses of another, and really had no idea what they were doing. Yet they were still oriented. They knew who they were, where they were, and even why they were there.

They'd tell us point blank. "I can't keep these dang pills straight." They even realized they were in grave danger from mixing up their meds so badly.

So many other things too can affect their mental functioning. Poor sleep to the point of going without sleep for days. Was he up with Roberta at all hours if she was that sick herself? Poor nutrition, was he eating?

There's also a disorder we saw called Brief Psychotic Disorder. Here is a link that describes it if anyone wants to read about it.

https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/mental-health-brief-psychotic-disorder#1

It's not Schizophrenia. It's basically a short term psychosis that can result from a reaction to major stress, such as a death of a spouse. It can cause hallucinations and delusions, but fortunately, is not permanent.

I'm not giving Philip a mental illness pass yet; there's so much we don't know. But for the time being, I am leaning that way myself, and just throwing it out there for consideration, at least.

In case he is dealing with any of this, I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt...


JMO

I understand where you are coming from. Once had an elderly patient brought, dry, extremely hypotensive, fainting. She was taking Lasix and furosemide, same drug, one brand name, one generic. Polypharmacy is a big problem. I’ll wait out, with you, though, to see if there was a mental break of some kind. I respect your insight. But I’ll doubt we will ever hear for sure.

 

[Steelslady]

I just pray that she died on her own, of either a natural cause or illness, if she had one. The family hasn't stated one way or the other if there was any known terminal medical issues going on, so I don't know what to make of it.

It is possible a medication overdose or under dose or mixed dosages could have affected his actions, but I have a hard time believing that if this was the case, he'd have been able to drive back and forth to Graceland, get a hotel room, buy garbage bags, toss her body in the river, clean the truck, get gas and food- with medication issues. It's honestly a bit far fetched to me that it would be a dosage issue, unless he had a mental health issue and wasn't taking his medications for a couple of weeks- then we might have a lithium imbalance or something of the sort.

I don't know what else to add- I can't help but think of this lady and hoping and praying that he didn't toss her over the bridge alive that morning out of anger or whatever have you.