GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #8

[CKay]

News reporters are at funeral home where SS's visitation is today.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119680&page=20

 

[Cazzie]

News reporters are at funeral home where SS's visitation is today.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119680&page=20

There is only one good thing about them being there, and that is if they give verbal and textual info about the benefits and donation funds.

 

[Cazzie]

Thanks for posting the link to the realtor's ad. This gives us a good idea of how easy it would have been for MH to conceal what was happening. If the deputy came to the front door and looked in the one window that's on the front porch........he may not see anything out of order. I think what happened may have happened downstairs on the lower level which would be somewhat concealed from view if anyone was looking on the main level where the kitchen, dining, and living room are.

I don't think so.

Based on GB's uncle's comments, I think like someone previously posted, that the ambushes happened in the hallway, and they were taken to the bathroom. Slight variation, he subdued them and put them in separate bedrooms.

I'm putting out another appeal for no one to post the photo of the bathroom...it's just too gruesome (even the realtor photo of the bathroom before TH/GB bought the home). Thank you in advance.

 

[Leila]

Hi Leila, interesting information. I know this is slightly off topic, but do you know why firefighters would have fought extra hard to save houses that were insured? It seems like the opposite would be true - after all, if a family's house was insured, they'd be given money from the insurance company to rebuild/renovate, whereas many families that were uninsured would have probably ended up homeless, with no money to fix their fire ravaged home. Again, sorry for the O/T, just very curious!

Fire marks are older than I thought. This is from the link below:

In 1735 the first fire brigade was formed, and in 1752 the first American fire insurance company was formed. In America, the fire brigades knew that the insurance company, whose mark was on a building, would reward the fire brigade which successfully put out the fire. And if two or more brigades showed up to put out the fire, many times fights broke out among the firemen, with bloody noses and black eyes attesting to their claim that their brigade, and their brigade alone, was the one which put out the fire.

So it was a matter of a fire brigade hoping to be rewarded with a bonus from the insurance company for putting out the fire with as little damage as possible.

http://www.oldandsold.com/articles02/article1064.shtml

With as many in-home emergencies and crime that we see today, perhaps someone could expand on the use of "fire marks" by having homeowners place some sort of readily identifiable mark on their home giving first responders permission to enter a home.

 

[CKay]

Concerning fire at 481 King Beach this morning:

http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local/10/11/23/porch-fire-burns-at-apple-valley-home

"A single hoseline was used to fight the fire, which Durbin said involved only items burning on the porch. Firefighters were clear of the scene by 12:30 this morning."

Well, think that may put that to rest: candles? memorial items? ... probably.

 

[CKay]

Thanks for posting the link to the realtor's ad. This gives us a good idea of how easy it would have been for MH to conceal what was happening. If the deputy came to the front door and looked in the one window that's on the front porch........he may not see anything out of order. I think what happened may have happened downstairs on the lower level which would be somewhat concealed from view if anyone was looking on the main level where the kitchen, dining, and living room are.

And we don't know what types of curtains TH put up, since we are only looking at the ones that were up when the house was for sale.

You can see the stairs leading down to the basement in a few of those pictures (near the patio window). Probably not able to see down there at all from the outside.

 

[Cazzie]

yep. He "processed" them in the bathroom, and carried the bags down the indoor stairs to the car or truck in the garage.

He's lucky that I can't be on the jury.

 

[Leila]

I honestly don't believe that MH broke into that home. First of all, Sheriff Barber said:

QUESTION: Was this a home invasion?

BARBER: No, I don't believe so.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/15/cnr.07.html

Secondly, if there had been any sign of a break-in, the officer doing the well-checks should have noticed something amiss. Even an open window.

Third, if MH had opened a window to get in before anyone came home, would he really have closed it again? Wouldn't one of the four people arriving home notice it? Would MH leave blood behind, but bother to close the window when he was done?

From the same presser linked above:

QUESTION: Where did she first see this man Matthew Hoffman?

BARBER: Inside the house.

QUESTION: Inside the house? And, at the time, she was with her mom and her brother?

BARBER: Everyone was at home.

Note how evasive Barber's answer is. He didn't say what condition TH was in or when Hoffman arrived.

This is strictly speculation, but I think that either TH had met him before and let him in, or he talked his way into the house while she was still alone. I imagine them sitting either in the kitchen or the living room, having a few beers and chatting. Maybe he told her he knew SS and it's possible that he actually did.

(I had another paragraph here theorizing about what happened next, but thought better of it.)

Question: If the house was about to be foreclosed, does that mean it was listed for sale anywhere? Could MH have pretended to be interested in buying the house? Just a thought.

MOO

Does anyone know what the weather was like on November 10th? After seeing the pictures of the inside of the home, I wonder if it was warm enough to have that back sliding glass door open - the sliding glass door off the kitchen area - at the top of the stairs leading down to the lower level.

If that sliding glass door was open, even a little, MH could have simply walked in. He may have caught Tina by surprise, appearing at that sliding back door with some sort of an excuse as to why he had stopped by, and just walked in without being invited. Taking control of the situation.

 

[CKay]

yep. He "processed" them in the bathroom, and carried the bags down the indoor stairs to the car or truck in the garage.

He's lucky that I can't be on the jury.

Yep, looks like garage was accessed through basement.

And I think I'd get disqualified if called to jury duty, even though it's a possibility.

 

[CKay]

Does anyone know what the weather was like on November 10th? After seeing the pictures of the inside of the home, I wonder if it was warm enough to have that back sliding glass door open - the sliding glass door off the kitchen area - at the top of the stairs leading down to the lower level.

If that sliding glass door was open, even a little, MH could have simply walked in. He may have caught Tina by surprise, appearing at that sliding back door with some sort of an excuse as to why he had stopped by, and just walked in without being invited. Taking control of the situation.

Discussed on the last page or before, but yep it was warm that day. 60s.

 

[Mustang Sally]

That's exactly what the defense attorney is doing. When his case goes to the GJ, the GJ can also consider other charges as well for indictment.

When he is indicted on the other charges, there will be another formal hearing in Common Pleas Court where he makes a plea to the additional charges.

How it goes from there depends on how he pleads to the charges.

If a decision is made to go on trial for those charges, the defense attorney would most likely waive the right to a speedy trail and try to have the trial as later as they possibly can.

What this means that if the right to speedy trial is waived, it may not be until late 2011 or early 2012 at the earliest before he stands trial.

This is so true! In my area we are still waiting on a trial for Serial Killer Gary Michael Hilton. He decapatied and killed my friend Cheryl Hodges Dunlap in December 2007. "Part of her body" was found by hunters 2 weeks after she was reported missing! The buzzards flying overhead lead them to where he had dumped her body in a National Forrest. We still do not know how, exactly when and where he captured her. Her car was left on the side of the road 1/2 mile from where I live!

He then confessed to decapating and killing Meredith Hope Emerson on Jan. 1, 2008, near Atlanta, Georgia.

"Accused killer Gary Michael Hilton is once again at the center of some courtroom controversy.

Hilton - who is accused of kidnapping and killing Cheryl Dunlap in 2007 - is scheduled to undergo some mental health tests down in Gainesville and that request is raising eyebrows.

The state attorney questions the necessity of the trip and the security concerns it raises.

Gary Michael Hilton is scheduled to stand trial in January. His attorneys now want the judge to grant permission for Hilton to be transported to Gainesville for some tests saying they must explore all the possibilities as they ready for trial."

http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/Hilton_Trial_Could_be_Delayed_Again_104361813.html

Cheryl's death had a profound affect on my sence of security....much like the people of Mt. Vernon/Howard are currently feeling! These senseless murders have reminded me to be more aware of my surroundings, to keep my doors/windows locked and to set my home alarm! (My DH works out of town from Sunday to Thursday and I live in an isolated area much like TH's home!) I remind myself look closely at others while working out at the gym, shopping at the mall or going to the grocery store. Hopefully there are no Gary Michael Hilton or Michael Hoffman types hanging out in my little world!

Rest In Peace.....Tina Herrman, Kody Maynard, Stephanie Sprang & Cheryl Hodges Dunlap....You All are True Angels of God!

My thoughts and prayers go out to Sarah Maynard and all the families!

 

[Cazzie]

Thank you, Mustang, and I am sorry for the loss of your dear friend.

I believe that Good will overpower Evil.

when....When...WHEN?!?!?

 

[Leila]

What do you all think of this? As I was driving around today thinking about this sad case. Working thru all the things that we know about.

What do you all think of the way they found Sarah was from her. Rumors or what ever said she ran to her room and locked the door.

Do you think she some how took her phone with her. Had it some place he didn't see?
And the powers to be GPS her by her phone. As long as it was on they could ping her. I'm sure they all had phones she was the only one able to get hers out. I think I read some where that they knew she was where she was and was hoping to find another one of them with her?

I originally thought perhaps Sarah had her cell phone on her person when she arrived home from school. A lot of kids carry their cell phone in their pocket.

But, in thinking about it, I would think LE would have found Sarah a lot sooner if it was a matter of pinging her cell phone. I'm sure that within the first hour after LE arrived at the house on Thursday morning, they had the cell phone numbers of all four and were pinging them.

Once it was known where Sarah was, I don't think LE would waste any time in rescuing her. So, whatever it was that alerted LE to her location, it happened sometime early Sunday morning. The SWAT team went into MH's house shortly before 8:00am. LE works fast, and I suspect they were acting on information they had received within the hour.

My 17-year-old grandson has a cell phone and the bus driver makes all the kids on the bus turn their cell phone off while they're riding the bus.

Maybe this was the case with Sarah. Maybe her cell phone was in her pocket and off when she got off the bus on Wednesday. She had no time to turn it on. But, somehow on that Sunday morning, even though she was bound and gagged, she managed to loosen her constraints and turn the phone on.........maybe even managed to hit 911.

 

[SailorMoon]

One thing we know is that the DQ lady crawled through a window in the back didn't she? So if she did - MH could have easily done the same. Looks like a nice house. I figure the kids flipped on the tv as soon as they got home and started looking for something to eat. If they got that far... --

My kids do that anyway. My son watches some ESPN usually then heads to the XBox. Daughter would watch tv and get on her laptop. Makes me sad that what should have been such a normal day turned into a living nightmare.

 

[Leila]

And we don't know what types of curtains TH put up, since we are only looking at the ones that were up when the house was for sale.

You can see the stairs leading down to the basement in a few of those pictures (near the patio window). Probably not able to see down there at all from the outside.

I would bet that there's access to the garage from that lower level too. It may be that SS's Jeep was placed in the garage as it was used to transport the bodies.

 

[Cazzie]

I would bet that there's access to the garage from that lower level too. It may be that SS's Jeep was placed in the garage as it was used to transport the bodies.

JMO, but the home is a single level home, with indoor stairs leading down to the garage. Home is built on a small hill/elevation.

So yes to the last sentence of your post.

This is how he was able to carry bodies to a vehicle without being seen by anyone.

And he, IMO, premeditated this by stalking the location and the normal comings and goings of this dear family and Stephanie, too.

Put me on the jury, please!

 

[SmoothOperator]

One thing we know is that the DQ lady crawled through a window in the back didn't she? So if she did - MH could have easily done the same. Looks like a nice house. I figure the kids flipped on the tv as soon as they got home and started looking for something to eat. If they got that far... --

My kids do that anyway. My son watches some ESPN usually then heads to the XBox. Daughter would watch tv and get on her laptop. Makes me sad that what should have been such a normal day turned into a living nightmare.

Yes, thank you, sailormoon..I have said this repeatedly...THERE WAS A WINDOW OPEN THAT VAL ENTERED THE HOUSE THRU.. I havve said that this too could be the way that MH entered the home and to LE would appear to have signs of forced entry..

I got the impression that Val knew of this window as a way in..I have neighbors that leave a certain window ALWAYS UNLOCKED, so that they can always enter if they dont have keys, locked in car, etc..{which believe me I have told them they are crazy for doing}

It seems this was the case with Val knowing she could enter that back window...If Val knew about this so could MH as he wAS WATCHING THEM FOR SOME TIME...he could have easily seen the kids or Tina entering this window one time when they were locked out..

I don't know why this is not being looked at as his main entry point more than likely??? Seems obvious to me..it fits with no forced entry as well..

Because personally I am not buying MH and Tina and SS having a few beers together.. Plz this was a stranger.. a stranger that had been watching them and he was there for a reason..and I do not believe there were pleasantries taking place whenever he entered the home...KWIM?

 

[MCDRAW]

one entry in the log said he was standing at the window. I was hoping that there are NO trees in sight.

No I hope there are trees, trees that he can only see and never be able to climb again. I hope they are far away so he can barely see them but where he can only dream of being free. I think the lack of freedom would be a death sentence to me.

 

[Cazzie]

This heinous crime has changed me forever. I've never followed a heinous crime before...they always showed up on the news after the fact...but this one, I was "in on" from the first report of these dear ones going missing. And I cared enough to follow all the reports.

I now understand how early on Sheriff Barbar called Sarah his hero. Of course he couldn't release many details back then.

Bravo to the local LE and all the other LE agencies that took part in bringing this abominable monster down.

 

[CKay]

JMO, but the home is a single level home, with indoor stairs leading down to the garage. Home is built on a small hill/elevation.

So yes to the last sentence of your post.

This is how he was able to carry bodies to a vehicle without being seen by anyone.

And he, IMO, premeditated this by stalking the location and the normal comings and goings of this dear family and Stephanie, too.

Put me on the jury, please!

There is a basement. I think I saw that on the county records also, but one of the pictures is of the basement (I'm pretty sure). The one with grey carpet and flourescent (?) light. You can see part of a small window that is at ceiling level.

Well, reading the realtor's description again, it looks like basement was converted in: "Lower level family room, bedroom/den & 1/2 bath/laundry"