OH OH - William 'Bill' Comeans, 14, Columbus, 7 Jan 1980 - #1

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This information is related to Post #176 by GoingByMyGut. The car that BC reported after his first attack was a Ford Falcon or similiar in an aquamarine color. Ford made Falcons from 1960 to 1970. There were no 1971 Falcons.

1960 – Saltana Turquoise
1961 – Aquamarine, Starlight Blue (light sky blue), Garden Turquoise
1962 – Ming Green (darker turquoise), Viking Blue(grey/blue)
1963 – Ming Green, Viking Blue, Dynasty Green (teal)
1964 – Skylight blue (sky blue)
1965 – Dynasty Green, Twilight Turquoise (slightly darker), Tropical Turquoise (lighter),
Medium Turquoise,
1966 – Tahoe Turquoise (medium)
1967 – Frost Turquoise, Brittany Blue (grey/blue), Clearwater Aqua (lighter, greener)
1968 - Gulfstream Aqua (little darker than Clearwater), Sea-foam Green, Brittany Blue
1969 – Silver Jade (teal or turquoise), Aztec Aqua (lighter aquamarine), Gulfstream
Aqua, Brittany Blue
1970 – Acapulco Blue (dark teal), Anti-Establish Mint (grey/green), Young Turquoise
(darker), Grabber Green (med. teal)

This may be pointless research if there are no car registration records or stolen car reports from 1979 available anymore. I'm also looking at other car makes/models that are similiar to a Ford Falcon. We have to assume that BC was telling the truth about this car. Maybe people who went to school with BC might remember this vehicle. Or his friends and family might recall seeing it. It's a long shot.

SOURCE:
http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?manuf=Ford&model=Falcon&con=mo&page=1&rows=50
 
Last night I read four additional articles I can’t link to here, but here’s the info if you are interested:

  • Young Duo Compiled Lengthy Crime Record, Columbus Dispatch, 9/12/80
  • Dad of Accused Boy Charged in Dispute Over Estate's Money, Columbus Citizen-Journal, 9/26/80
  • Testimony Heard From Hitchhiker, Columbus Dispatch, 10/21/80
  • Focus of Case Shifts to Defendant, 16, Columbus Dispatch, 12/2/80

What I See as Highlights of the Reporting:

  • These reports put the date of the EB murder/spree of four thefts at 9/10/80, not 9/11/80 as I said in my last post.

  • Acc. to the media, Capehart & Trudell both had records prior to the 9/10/80 EB murder/theft spree (which, btw, they committed in EB’s stolen car [I am guessing they found the key in her apartment, so this probably didn’t require hot-wiring or other technical skills — mb more a crime of opportunity]).

Trudell’s previous offenses:
  • 5/24/79, receiving stolen property — found guilty, with case held open for six months to see if Trudell could follow rules at home and school and stop skipping school
  • 7/7/79, juvenile count of aggravated burglary — guilty, six mos. probation
  • 9/1/79, petit theft — guilty, probation extended to 6/15/80
  • 3/7/80, petit theft & criminal trespassing — guilty of trespassing, one month of house arrest
  • 4/30/80, breaking & entering — guilty, committed temporarily to Ohio Youth Commission

Capehart’s previous offenses:
  • 10/29/79, grand theft, breaking & entering — guilty of complicity to grand theft, probation until age 18 (b'day: 6/1/80)
  • 5/8/80, grant theft auto (stole a car and drove it to FL) & violating probation — guilty, 30 days in jail

  • Trudell’s father may have been the son’s “role model” in elder abuse, as one of the above articles is about a civil suit filed against the father for allegedly embezzling $10,000 from an elderly couple (the father’s business appears to have been providing Medicaid assistance to the elderly — oh brother).

  • According to a hitchhiker who is painted as a respectable member of a Columbus community, Capehart & Trudell gave him a ride hours after killing EB — in her car — and told him what they had just done.

  • Location: Three of the four robberies Capehart & Trudell committed after murdering EB were outside BC’s neighborhood (on the other side of 270), but one place they robbed was just a few blocks from Westland HS. Also, EB lived on Beacon Hill Road between Topsfield Road and Schoolhouse Lane, which is just blocks from both Prairie-Lincoln Elementary School and the BC home.

  • Some description of Capehart & Trudell may give potential answers to questions we would ask about any deranged crime partnership, such as the relationship between the partners. For example, in spite of their ages (with Capehart being the older of the two), Capehart’s lawyer painted Trudell as the leader and Capehart as “non-violent ... a classic example of a follower.” The same man called Trudell a psychopath. Of course, that’s Capehart’s lawyer talking, so who knows ...

  • Capehart was allowed to plead out to voluntary manslaughter (it seems there wasn’t much physical evidence against him). For that he got a maximum 15-75 years in the Ohio State Reformatory at Mansfield (closed since 1990). In terms of the content of these articles, Trudell was awaiting a decision on whether he’d be tried as an adult. But the headlines in the other articles I’ve requested suggest he was found guilty (e.g., “Judge West calls for applause at trial of Gary Lee Trudell”), but I’ll know for sure once I get them. And as KatCo said upthread, "Trudell is serving a life sentence will parole coming up in 2018."

A Possible Relationship to the BC Case?

FWIW, Trudell -- as described by Capehart’s lawyer -- fits the profile the BC case suggests to me -- someone both local and psychopathic. To me, that makes it tempting to zero in on them, but it isn’t enough. Here’s what I see as problematic:

  • Priors: The offenses on the two boys' records prior to the EB murder don’t overlap. In fact, where “complicity” is noted for Capehart in October 1979, the accounts do not say “with whom.” Did their partnership even predate Sept. 1980? To me, this is a viable search option: For starters, consult court records for the 10/79 offense. I would also see if Westland kept their individual disciplinary records.

  • Car theft: Since car theft is in the duo’s crime vocabulary in 1980 (perhaps a skill Capehart brought to the table, given his solo performance in May 1980), might they have done it before? Could the aqua car used for the second attack on BC have been stolen by them from elsewhere and later dropped off outside the neighborhood, without anyone knowing who took it? Another viable search option: Reported stolen cars. Pure speculation, but not outside the realm of possibility.

  • The hitchhiker: IMO, bragging to the hitchhiker about their crimes pretty much blows a hole through any motive that these two pursued BC because BC saw something.

  • BC's Description: Considering BC’s age of 14, did Capehart & Trudell, aged 16 and 18, have enough physical presence for BC to refer to them as “men”? (If in fact "men" was BC’s word choice and not LE’s or the media’s.)

  • MO: I still feel this pair is more reckless than the crimes against BC suggest. They committed the robberies with witnesses and told a hitchhiker they murdered EB! Would they have been capable of the stealth and persistence that the BC crimes suggest? A family tweet today says the knife found at the site of the third attack and BC’s later death was a “butcher knife.” Given what Capehart and/or Trudell did decisively with Trudell’s hunting knife one year later, wouldn’t they have used it if they wanted to kill BC?

  • By September 1979, the time of BC’s first attack, Capehart & Trudell appear to be “making a living” by stealing, and Trudell at least was having truancy issues (I wonder if Capehart was still enrolled, graduated, or dropped out of Westland ...). Were they still enough a part of Westland school culture to know BC? To care about a 14-YO? I still don’t see a specific, logical connection or motive here. That said, Trudell was actually charged with a crime on 9/1/79, and not knowing whether he’d be found guilty or what sentencing would bring, he could have reverted temporarily to “good behavior” by attending school (where we know he didn’t entertain himself with the 3 Rs). Pure speculation, but possible.

  • One thing seems certain: If there is a link to this pair, or even to one of them, testing the evidentiary DNA should prove it.

I'm curious as to what the rest of you think about this pair. Is there anything here? How attractive do you think these two are as possible suspects? Have you eliminated them in your mind? Or are you still open to them?
Highly probable IMO, that these 2 were involved. My gut keeps lurching when I hear their names. For anyone that hasn't read Bobs blog on this tragedy, I highly recommend it. It's posted in the beginning of this thread. Warning, bring tissue! :(
 
And for any one out there that may have some undisclosed info on this case? I beg of you to come forward!! I PLEAD with your softer side. Having been the victim of a double homicide, I CANNOT stress enough how much closure and comfort comes with these cases being solved. Please embrace your heart, embrace this wonderful family, so that they can have some comfort. I promise, you won't be sorry. Blessings to you!
 
This information is related to Post #176 by GoingByMyGut. The car that BC reported after his first attack was a Ford Falcon or similiar in an aquamarine color. Ford made Falcons from 1960 to 1970. There were no 1971 Falcons.

My Dad was a teenager and a car buff during the 60's. He looked at the picture and thought that it was a Falcon from '62-'65. There may not have been many still on the road by 1979. I wish I had access to car registrations for '79. Even if I had to go through them by hand, it might be worth a look. :please:
 
Highly probable IMO, that these 2 were involved. My gut keeps lurching when I hear their names. For anyone that hasn't read Bobs blog on this tragedy, I highly recommend it. It's posted in the beginning of this thread. Warning, bring tissue! :(

These two people would be an excellent starting point. If nothing else, they should be eliminated if possible. Since neither of them has been named as a POI, how much can we post about them? Did LE ever named any POI in this case?

Has anyone talked to the cold case detective handling BC's case?
 
This information is related to Post #176 by GoingByMyGut. The car that BC reported after his first attack was a Ford Falcon or similiar in an aquamarine color. Ford made Falcons from 1960 to 1970. There were no 1971 Falcons.

1960 – Saltana Turquoise
1961 – Aquamarine, Starlight Blue (light sky blue), Garden Turquoise
1962 – Ming Green (darker turquoise), Viking Blue(grey/blue)
1963 – Ming Green, Viking Blue, Dynasty Green (teal)
1964 – Skylight blue (sky blue)
1965 – Dynasty Green, Twilight Turquoise (slightly darker), Tropical Turquoise (lighter),
Medium Turquoise,
1966 – Tahoe Turquoise (medium)
1967 – Frost Turquoise, Brittany Blue (grey/blue), Clearwater Aqua (lighter, greener)
1968 - Gulfstream Aqua (little darker than Clearwater), Sea-foam Green, Brittany Blue
1969 – Silver Jade (teal or turquoise), Aztec Aqua (lighter aquamarine), Gulfstream
Aqua, Brittany Blue
1970 – Acapulco Blue (dark teal), Anti-Establish Mint (grey/green), Young Turquoise
(darker), Grabber Green (med. teal)

This may be pointless research if there are no car registration records or stolen car reports from 1979 available anymore. I'm also looking at other car makes/models that are similiar to a Ford Falcon. We have to assume that BC was telling the truth about this car. Maybe people who went to school with BC might remember this vehicle. Or his friends and family might recall seeing it. It's a long shot.

SOURCE:
http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?manuf=Ford&model=Falcon&con=mo&page=1&rows=50

Been trying to post this for an hour ... WS is moving so slowly for me!

Thanks for doing that, RainyAlaska! I guess that shows just how many versions of "light blue" there really are ...

BBM1: I've been banging my head against a wall trying to find something on this too. :banghead:

I have found nothing useful about specific stolen cars on the Internet except some articles on some that were recovered after several decades, and a database that doesn't go back nearly far enough.

Of course, for there to be records, the "theft" had to be more than a joyride and the owner had to file a report ... (I am thinking here of what I said above about Capehart and Trudell).

BBM2: Good idea. I was thinking that too bc the family tweet said "along the lines of." Dodge Dart? Plymouth Valient? The car is a Playmobil version of itself ... a 60s middle-America family sedan.

I wonder if there are any WS VIs with auto theft expertise? We need a resource that narrows in on the Columbus area as well as the date -- but the date range is narrow -- a few days before and after the second attack.
 
These two people would be an excellent starting point. If nothing else, they should be eliminated if possible. Since neither of them has been named as a POI, how much can we post about them? Did LE ever named any POI in this case?

Has anyone talked to the cold case detective handling BC's case?

I agree re the need to eliminate them.

Black BBM: Uh-oh. I better check. I assumed that as convicted felons, one of whom is still incarcerated, they were fair game. I will check.

Red BBM: I assume these things are in the family's hands and will let them answer you. I'm guessing you saw upthread that they are expecting a new cc detective to begin working on the case shortly. My sense is that more often than not, the case was dismissed as suicide, but KatCo did say in Post 237 that she believes Trudell was questioned: "To my knowledge he has been questioned regarding Bill's murder. However, I'm not sure how extensively."
 
One of them is still incarcerated but the other one lives nearby. I was able to find an address. The age is correct so it probably is him. Hopefully the new cold case detective will talk to this person.

I've also been looking for Westland High School yearbooks online. It might be worthwhile looking through '76-'80 books for that car. It would be great to talk to some people who went to school at the same time.

Sorry that WS has been so slow for you. That's so frustrating.
 
Both posts TBM:
Since neither of them has been named as a POI, how much can we post about them?

Uh-oh. I better check. I assumed that as convicted felons, one of whom is still incarcerated, they were fair game. I will check.

I reread TOS and don't see anything specifically against what I did in my two posts on them, but I will check with a mod to be sure.
 
One of them is still incarcerated but the other one lives nearby. I was able to find an address. The age is correct so it probably is him. Hopefully the new cold case detective will talk to this person.

I've also been looking for Westland High School yearbooks online. It might be worthwhile looking through '76-'80 books for that car. It would be great to talk to some people who went to school at the same time.

Sorry that WS has been so slow for you. That's so frustrating.

BBM1: Yes. Here's a link to his offender page.

BBM2: Right there with you. Though it's unclear to me how forthcoming either of them would be in an interview. I'm sure neither would want to incriminate himself.

BBM3: You might have better luck checking the elementary school pages. I read today that GT was expelled in eighth grade. To me, that says he caused serious harm in school. Often, kids like this are NOT allowed back. Even if he was in the district, he might have been sent to what's called an "alternative" high school -- which is for kids with crime/violence/delinquency problems. You've probably heard of them. I was just about to look up the name of the one in this district. Wherever they went to HS, I would hope LE would try to get their hands on their school records, as it might provide more insight into who they were at that time. JMO

BBM4: Thanks :)
 
Hello all. I recently joined WS and this is my very first posting. I was led to WS by another veteran member, looking into an unrelated case. When I saw & read the Bill Comeans story I felt a special draw to this case and to help on the very impressive present team of sleuthers. I also have abundant admiration for Bill (who couldn't!) and the pain his family has endured, tho I live far from Columbus, OH and have never met them. My heart goes out to each member of his family.

I've spent the better part of the past 3 days reviewing all the posts/info, to date. I'm very impressed with the sleuthers and agree with a vast majority of your analysis, insights, and direction. I may have missed some info along the 270 posts, tho I tried not to.

GBMG,, I agree on pursuing GT & RSC as POI's. There are too many significant "links" to discard. I'm not saying it should be sole focus, but simply one direction of investigation.

Onto my insights & analysis from the info thus far...
Note this is "my take" (ie. opinion, of which most is derived from past experience). I am awaiting response from mods to see if I even require profile verification. BTW, I am not related or connected to this case in any form, and other than vaguely remembering hearing about Bill's death on media many years ago, I had known nothing of the details.

1. This case is very solvable. Even given the very limited info from family & news reports, I'm quite appalled at what I consider serious mishandling & misjudgements by LE right from the onset. For me, it was almost to the point where I thought "this would only make sense if LE was purposely trying to cover up for someone they knew, related or influential." In any case, some of the mishandling sickened me, and I believe LE has not changed their mindset on this case still today.

2. I fully believe Bill knew his attackers/killers. I have virtually zero doubt on this. I believe the polygraph results showing "deceptive" were not due to him lying about being attacked, but were merely a result of him not opening up and divulging the true identity of his "later to be" murderers.
It is still a mystery as to what it was that allowed the attackers such overwhelming control and power over Bill for him not to divulge their names, or any info as to why they were after him.

3. I do not believe there was ever any car or motor vehicle involved, at all.
Here are the reasons I say this:
  • I believe the aqua/green car was part of Bill's steadfast attempt to not reveal who were the true attackers. It does not go "in sync" with his claim to have seen the vehicle, yet not the occupants who exited/entered it during attack #2.
  • Tho I'm not privy to how the polygraph examiner questioned Bill, being as the results reportedly showed "deception", it is quite possible this was one of the main questions, leading to a deceptive answer. As a kid, when I wanted to give false info to mislead police or parents about a vehicle, I would also pick a weird/random color.
  • My main reason... the very close proximity of all 3 attacks, and especially the last one ending Bill's life, the use of a car runs completely opposite of my views and experience that IF they had gotten Bill into any car, they surely would not have only driven only a block or two away to kill him, and take high risk in parking the car at the RR track/Park St death scene location. That location appears to be within short eyesight of at least 2 residences and it appears to me even a parked vehicle would really "stand out". The perpetrators would make full benefit of any vehicle by restraining Bill, then drive to a far more secluded and much "safer" place to attack or kill him. In a close packed neighborhood, coupled with being "satisfied" to leave the crime scene nearly within eyesight of the abduction, a vehicle is a hindrance for going unnoticed, rather than an asset (especially a aqua car). It is also far less noticeable for the perps to be just "walking the edge of the street", especially at dinnertime or dusk/dark.
  • I believe too many pieces point to at least one of the attackers/murderers living or staying within direct eyesight of the Comeans residence. I am not ruling out at least one of them staying, or knowing/visiting someone fairly frequently that might live on the opposite (west) side of Maple Dr. In the 3rd fatal attack, it appeared more than just a "lucky chance" that they would catch Bill in the brief moments he was out in front of his house.

4. What really jumps out at me is... and this is very heavy food for thought...
Since it is obvious the perps wanted to kill Bill from the onset, and not merely hurt him, and they seemed to grow more desperate/determined even after the 2 failed attempts at killing him, WHY did they still stick with strangulation as the method?? Surely a baseball bat, steel pipe, multiple stabbing, etc would have instantly & easily accomplished their "ultimate goal". Yet they chose to repeat a "failed" method, twice.
On all 3 attacks, it is crystal clear that the perps fully intended to kill Bill. I believe they "thought" they did sufficient strangulation on the 1st attack, that there would be no way Bill could have survived. Bill was meant to be dead on that 1st attack. Far too serious of an effort to be considered anything close to "bullying" tactics.

5. I believe at least one of the perps was a true psychopath, and possessed a "fixation" on wanting to physically feel the death with his own two hands. The murder/death had to be felt by every sensory nerve in the killer in order to (I very sadly say) fully "quench his thirst" in any satisfying way in his warped mind. A knife or steel pipe would not be anything that would accomplish that feeling. It had to be much more "personal".

The length of time it takes to physically strangle a person to the point of death is much much longer than a perpetrator would expect. It also requires greater strength than expected. The use of ligature "tools", such as a rope or scarf may reduce the effort/strength needed, but it would not reduce the time needed.

Perhaps I'm going above & beyond here, (and I regret having the family seeing all these ugly blunt realities) but I surmise that the attacker(s) did realize perhaps too much of this thrill a bit prematurely in the strangulation, therefore although they "thought" Bill had expired, they rejoiced and let loose a bit too soon to ensure certain death. It is possible, due to the very "public" location of attack #2, some traffic or passerby might have scared them off prematurely.

I strongly suspect at least one of the attackers has a history of extreme abuse of any animals/pets, including gruesome methods to their deaths.

6. The subject of "never a sign of any struggle by Bill".
First, I would respectfully disagree with the hypothesis that this would surely indicate he was attacked from behind or surprised. I would agree with this hypothesis IF Bill had been attacked and instantly disabled with a knife, bat, pipe, or blunt object from behind. But not on any strangulation case.
IMO and experience, there would have been instant opportunity and ability for Bill to have given much resistance, even to two perps, the moment any contact was made. Certainly he would be most likely up against a loosing and very short battle, but a significant amount of resistance/fight over brief moments are almost always the rule, rather than the exception, in these cases. Nonetheless, this is very baffling.

7. (Pertains to #6) The diazepam (valium) discovered in Bill's "autopsy".
The reason I quoted "autopsy" is that I am not sure, by info thus far, if Bill had a complete autopsy or if the coroner performed a partial autopsy (actually a medical exam) of just the main areas of injury? Also, it appears clear this exam/autopsy was not performed swiftly after Bill's death.

In a Jan 17, 1980 news article, Det. Rich stated "Final determination of the case is pending until an autopsy is issued, probably in two weeks".
This news report comes 10 days after BC's death, yet what does the Detective mean by "issue" an autopsy? He has yet to order it be done? Did I read correct that it not until months later that the autopsy results were completed/released? If so, why this huge delay?
(It seems as tho LE was influencing the coroner's actions/results from the onset, the opposite of the order it should be).

Important questions for family (respectfully, when time permits):
1. When was the autopsy actually performed, and to what extent? What was the level of valium in his blood? Could they determine its level at time of death?
2. The precise location of Bill after his fatal attack? I have your hand-marked map showing #3 (where Bill was found), but not precise enough. Where in relation to the outside apex of the curve, at Park St & Buena Vista Ave, was he located? Was it east of the east edge line of Buena Vista, or a bit west of that, more in the open?
3. So far, I've only heard Bill went 2 doors down to get you from the birthday party, that fateful night. Was it 2 houses down north or south of your home (important in some respects)?

To all: I apologize for the long length, and most likely not the best in formatting. Please feel free to give me any constructive criticism or pointers. There is so many more questions and info to be communicated on this very unusual case, as time permits.
 
Hello all. I recently joined WS and this is my very first posting. I was led to WS by another veteran member, looking into an unrelated case. When I saw & read the Bill Comeans story I felt a special draw to this case and to help on the very impressive present team of sleuthers. I also have abundant admiration for Bill (who couldn't!) and the pain his family has endured, tho I live far from Columbus, OH and have never met them. My heart goes out to each member of his family.

A warm welcome to you Methodical. Your post was amazing!!!

Think I have to read it through a second or third time to be sure I didn't miss anything. Thanks for your insight. I agree with you on just about everything. Excellent points and well thought out theories.

Welcome to WS and thanks again for your post. :seeya:
 
Welcome to Websleuths, Methodical! We're happy to have you on board!

:welcome:

:wagon:
 
Wow Methodical! Just wow! Your moniker suits you well!
Welcome, you are an incredible addition to the sleuthing team! :)
 
Original post TBM:
Hello all. I recently joined WS and this is my very first posting. I was led to WS by another veteran member, looking into an unrelated case. When I saw & read the Bill Comeans story I felt a special draw to this case and to help on the very impressive present team of sleuthers. I also have abundant admiration for Bill (who couldn't!) and the pain his family has endured, tho I live far from Columbus, OH and have never met them. My heart goes out to each member of his family.

I've spent the better part of the past 3 days reviewing all the posts/info, to date. I'm very impressed with the sleuthers and agree with a vast majority of your analysis, insights, and direction. I may have missed some info along the 270 posts, tho I tried not to.

GBMG,, I agree on pursuing GT & RSC as POI's. There are too many significant "links" to discard. I'm not saying it should be sole focus, but simply one direction of investigation.

Onto my insights & analysis from the info thus far...
Note this is "my take" (ie. opinion, of which most is derived from past experience). I am awaiting response from mods to see if I even require profile verification. BTW, I am not related or connected to this case in any form, and other than vaguely remembering hearing about Bill's death on media many years ago, I had known nothing of the details.

...

To all: I apologize for the long length, and most likely not the best in formatting. Please feel free to give me any constructive criticism or pointers. There is so many more questions and info to be communicated on this very unusual case, as time permits.

Hello, Methodical :seeya:

I also enjoyed your post. Your strong point of view made me question what I believe at this point and got me thinking more deeply than I already was about the details of this case. Thank you!

BBM1: Is that because you bring some related professional experience to the table?

BBM2: No worries on that score -- you are in good company here :)

That said, I think I'm going to reply to different chunks at a time to make responding more managable.
 
Quick question, GBMG...
Surely BBM = Bold By Me, but what does the TBM in "Original Post TBM" mean?
I have a guess, but rather wait for a confirmed answer.

As to your BBM1... I'm still awaiting response from my email yesterday to wsverify staff, but simply a former LEO.
 
Methodical,

I had the very same thought about the car. Especially on the night of the birthday party. There is no way they parked their car on that street and grabbed him from his front yard, imo. And I totally agree that the perp most likely had a very close vantage point. Quite possibly on the same street.
 
Original post TBM:
4. What really jumps out at me is... and this is very heavy food for thought... Since it is obvious the perps wanted to kill Bill from the onset, and not merely hurt him, and they seemed to grow more desperate/determined even after the 2 failed attempts at killing him, WHY did they still stick with strangulation as the method?? Surely a baseball bat, steel pipe, multiple stabbing, etc would have instantly & easily accomplished their "ultimate goal". Yet they chose to repeat a "failed" method, twice.
On all 3 attacks, it is crystal clear that the perps fully intended to kill Bill. I believe they "thought" they did sufficient strangulation on the 1st attack, that there would be no way Bill could have survived. Bill was meant to be dead on that 1st attack. Far too serious of an effort to be considered anything close to "bullying" tactics.

5. I believe at least one of the perps was a true psychopath, and possessed a "fixation" on wanting to physically feel the death with his own two hands. The murder/death had to be felt by every sensory nerve in the killer in order to (I very sadly say) fully "quench his thirst" in any satisfying way in his warped mind. A knife or steel pipe would not be anything that would accomplish that feeling. It had to be much more "personal".

The length of time it takes to physically strangle a person to the point of death is much much longer than a perpetrator would expect. It also requires greater strength than expected. The use of ligature "tools", such as a rope or scarf may reduce the effort/strength needed, but it would not reduce the time needed.

Perhaps I'm going above & beyond here, (and I regret having the family seeing all these ugly blunt realities) but I surmise that the attacker(s) did realize perhaps too much of this thrill a bit prematurely in the strangulation, therefore although they "thought" Bill had expired, they rejoiced and let loose a bit too soon to ensure certain death. It is possible, due to the very "public" location of attack #2, some traffic or passerby might have scared them off prematurely.

I strongly suspect at least one of the attackers has a history of extreme abuse of any animals/pets, including gruesome methods to their deaths.

Hi again, Methodical. :)

The point of view you describe above is similar to where my gut has taken me through much of this thread. Right away I saw the "attacks" as attempted murder, and the method of attack/attempted murder as "up close and personal." At times, I've pushed the psychopath angle. So what I'm about to say doesn't mean I disagree. I'm going to poke holes in some of the above thoughts, but I'm playing devil's advocate with myself as much as I am with you! I still see this scenario as plausible, but right now I'm trying to push myself to see other possibilities.

It's the things that don't fit that make me waffle. Yes, "WHY did they still stick with strangulation as the method??" (BBM1). Why did they "repeat a "failed" method, twice" (BBM2)? These questions actually become MORE perplexing to me when I think of at least one of the assailants being a pyschopath. If that person "has a history of extreme abuse of any animals/pets, including gruesome methods to their deaths" (BBM5), he would know what death looks like and would be less likely to mistake unconsciousness for death. If he wanted "to physically feel the death with his own two hands" (BBM4), he would have been less likely to walk away before he was sure he saw it, less likely to get that thrill from "sufficient strangulation" (BBM3).

I think the reason the vailum was found in Bill's blood after the fourth attack is a potential hingepoint in this case. If Bill was drugged by his assailants, then their motivation to cause harm rachets up a notch in my book. By the same token, if Bill was prescribed the valium, that picture weakens a bit for me.

For example: WHAT IF the reason the attacks were UNsuccessful two out of three times was because the assailants wanted to scare Bill, but NOT kill him? What if the third time, they accidentally tied his scarf too tight, and the knot they put in it prevented it from loosening while Bill lay there unconscious? Could his actual death have been intimidation gone awry? If the attackers did not administer the valium, I think this is a credible bullying angle.

My point is that one way to read the strangulations that didn't kill Bill is to view them as failures, but what are some other ways? These perps left Bill alive THREE times. Maybe the reason this seems so incredible, so unlikely, is that we're reading it wrong. These two attackers were powerful enough to overpower him three times, but couldn't successfully kill him before leaving the scene on the third try? I'm not saying I believe, one way or the other, I'm just saying, let's keep an open mind.

In an earlier post, I suggested a sick sexual motive which would still bring a very deviant perpetrator into play. But I wonder if there are other possible scenarios? Something we don't see yet?

You could be right. The potential for a pyschopathic killer is all there, IMO. That could be the way it was. But until we get some verification on some facts, I think I have to say my own POV is "technically" undecided. :)
 
Quick question, GBMG...
Surely BBM = Bold By Me, but what does the TBM in "Original Post TBM" mean?
I have a guess, but rather wait for a confirmed answer.

As to your BBM1... I'm still awaiting response from my email yesterday to wsverify staff, but simply a former LEO.

Sorry :) "trimmed by me"
 
WHY did they still stick with strangulation as the method??" (BBM1). Why did they "repeat a "failed" method, twice" (BBM2)?

Simple answer: He/They liked it. That's my gut answer. It's hands on. The power provided some sort of thrill.

If that person "has a history of extreme abuse of any animals/pets, including gruesome methods to their deaths" (BBM5), he would know what death looks like and would be less likely to mistake unconsciousness for death. If he wanted "to physically feel the death with his own two hands" (BBM4), he would have been less likely to walk away before he was sure he saw it, less likely to get that thrill from "sufficient strangulation" (BBM3).

Going, you may be correct, but a human being is different from an animal. Remember for a psychopath it may also be the "power". I think the killer(s) is/are new to murder. They may not have realized how long was needed for strangulation. Sorry to be so blunt.

I'm also puzzled by the two failed attempts. You don't often see that with murder cases. I too still see this as having a sexual component. But psychopaths often get pleasure in a variety of ways. The control and feelings of power would also excite him/them. However, you could be correct in that there are other motivating factors that we're just not aware of or we just haven't pinpointed yet. This is a very strange murder case. Thanks Going for your input. I think we're all on the right track. There are a lot of questions which need to be answered.
 
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