OH OH - William 'Bill' Comeans, 14, Columbus, 7 Jan 1980 - #1

[SisterWolf]

It's not that I don't think 'monetary rewards' don't happen in cases, I'm not naive or "limited" in my thinking. I'm well aware of cases where sexual predators have given their victims money. I have thought about it, and I don't think a 'monetary reward' fits in this case, not with the notes and attacks. Why would a perp threaten Bill and "warn" him with notes, attack him, etc, whilst at the same time or previously financially rewarding him? Those two points are both ways of gaining control over a victim and scaring them into compliance. Both are very different to each other, and both unlikely to have come from the same perp. One is passive, one is aggressive. We know the perp IS aggressive from the threats (notes) and attacks, so the passive monetary rewards just don't fit the perps MO in my opinion. What else do we know about the perp/perps? We know he/they stick to the same method and don't change methods (strangulation), even when they fail. So IMO it's highly unlikely that the perp/perps would start off giving monetary rewards and then change their method to something completely different and aggressive like threatening notes and attacks. I don't see two methods which are both so different psychologically and behaviourally, existing in the same perp for the same crime. It's like you're getting confused due to the potentially HUGE suspect pool (and keeping an open mind about who the perp/s might be) and you're attributing two very different MO's to the one perp. It doesn't fit. That's my opinion from a profiling POV.

I think it's a good thing we're disagreeing on something. It'll make us both think more and question more. It's not always a bad thing to play the devil's advocate.

 

[Methodical]

It's not that I don't think 'monetary rewards' don't happen in cases, I'm not naive or "limited" in my thinking. I'm well aware of cases where sexual predators have given their victims money. I have thought about it, and I don't think a 'monetary reward' fits in this case, not with the notes and attacks. Why would a perp threaten Bill and "warn" him with notes, attack him, etc, whilst at the same time or previously financially rewarding him? Those two points are both ways of gaining control over a victim and scaring them into compliance. Both are very different to each other, and both unlikely to have come from the same perp. One is passive, one is aggressive. We know the perp IS aggressive from the threats (notes) and attacks, so the passive monetary rewards just don't fit the perps MO in my opinion. What else do we know about the perp/perps? We know he/they stick to the same method and don't change methods (strangulation), even when they fail. So IMO it's highly unlikely that the perp/perps would start off giving monetary rewards and then change their method to something completely different and aggressive like threatening notes and attacks. I don't see two methods which are both so different psychologically, existing in the same perp for the same crime. It's like you're getting confused due to the potentially HUGE suspect pool (and keeping an open mind about who the perp/s might be) and you're attributing two very different MO's to the one perp. It doesn't fit. That's my opinion from a profiling POV.

I think it's a good thing we're disagreeing on something. It'll make us both think more and question more. It's not always a bad thing to play the devil's advocate.

SW,
I'm also glad you have brought this up and expressed your viewpoints and insights, in disagreement. It does make both sides think more on this topic. I'm not the best (far from it actually) in putting to words the information/insights that are in my head. But I'll try.

You are very correct, monetary aspect and violence aspect are total opposites in nature and in profile. I couldn't agree more. However, I think you are also using the same time frame in this case, for both opposing MO's. Let me throw this out there... sometimes/many times things evolve over time.

Take for instance a time frame 2 years prior to Bill's first attack. It's not beyond possibility that this monetary aspect could have been a reality in the early pre-stages and initial contact with whoever players are involved. Also initial involvement may have started with someone who actually didn't have a "hands-on" role in the physical attacks or murder of Bill. Who knows,, it may have started a year or two prior with an older player, say 35 yrs old or more, in a more passive control way. Then that person, much later, enlisted the help/involvement of student age criminal players, who naturally would have far less "passive" methods in profile. To date, there is far more things in this case that break all rules and just "don't make sense". Therefore, I feel nothing is beyond the realm of possibilities, even if on the surface, they seem to not match up.

Also, I forgot to address an earlier aspect of disagreement, relative to you not seeing how common partying/drug use by older (25-35) neighbors could be relevant to Bill's murder or case. Let me give you a hypothetical, which is within realm of actual motives for murder.
Let's say Bill was at the wrong place at the wrong time, and happened to see something, or have first hand insider knowledge of something sooo bad and jeopardizing to another person's (a person of utmost power/authority/stature) life, in regard to possible potential criminal conviction, long or life prison sentencing, or the end of a very powerful career, IF that person's act was ever exposed.
For example, what if Bill saw an LE Sgt, or a mayor, or a very wealthy husband & multi-million $$ corporation CEO do something soo seriously illegal, immoral, or felonious that it would end up being a "world ending & life altering" punishment if he, or his act, was ever exposed.
People have been know to kill people over FAR less life-jeopardizing things.

Just some expanded possibilities for thought. As there are actual murder case files, where this exact motive and scenario actually has occurred.

 

[SisterWolf]

SW,
I'm also glad you have brought this up and expressed your viewpoints and insights, in disagreement. It does make both sides think more on this topic. I'm not the best (far from it actually) in putting to words the information/insights that are in my head. But I'll try.

You are very correct, monetary aspect and violence aspect are total opposites in nature and in profile. I couldn't agree more. However, I think you are also using the same time frame in this case, for both opposing MO's. Let me throw this out there... sometimes/many times things evolve over time.

Take for instance a time frame 2 years prior to Bill's first attack. It's not beyond possibility that this monetary aspect could have been a reality in the early pre-stages and initial contact with whoever players are involved. Also initial involvement may have started with someone who actually didn't have a "hands-on" role in the physical attacks or murder of Bill. Who knows,, it may have started a year or two prior with an older player, say 35 yrs old or more, in a more passive control way. Then that person, much later, enlisted the help/involvement of student age criminal players, who naturally would have far less "passive" methods in profile. To date, there is far more things in this case that break all rules and just "don't make sense". Therefore, I feel nothing is beyond the realm of possibilities, even if on the surface, they seem to not match up.

Also, I forgot to address an earlier aspect of disagreement, relative to you not seeing how common partying/drug use by older (25-35) neighbors could be relevant to Bill's murder or case. Let me give you a hypothetical, which is within realm of actual motives for murder.
Let's say Bill was at the wrong place at the wrong time, and happened to see something, or have first hand insider knowledge of something sooo bad and jeopardizing to another person's (a person of utmost power/authority/stature) life, in regard to possible potential criminal conviction, long or life prison sentencing, or the end of a very powerful career, IF that person's act was ever exposed.
For example, what if Bill saw an LE Sgt, or a mayor, or a very wealthy husband & multi-million $$ corporation CEO do something soo seriously illegal, immoral, or felonious that it would end up being a "world ending & life altering" punishment if he, or his act, was ever exposed.
People have been know to kill people over FAR less life-jeopardizing things.

Just some expanded possibilities for thought. As there are actual murder case files, where this exact motive and scenario actually has occurred.

I completely agree with you that what you've stated here could be the case and is entirely possible and has happened before, however that's not at all what I was referring to or referencing. That's very different to a bunch of older kids getting high, Bill witnessing them getting high, them killing Bill for knowing they get high? Do drugs? No, that's way too much overkill. I don't think High School Kids have enough of a career or reputation to deem that a severe threat. Severe enough to murder someone to keep it hidden.

 

[SisterWolf]

Just lost the majority of my post *sigh* Will aim to re-write it and clarify my thoughts.

 

[KatCo]

I want to express my thanks for everyone taking their time to brainstorm, research, ponder, and share with us. I believe there is a time for everything. Perhaps it's taken 34 years for this new DNA testing to come about because it's taken that long for the DNA of whomever it belongs to, to get in the system. Maybe 20 years ago if it were tested, we'd have no matches. I have been called 'annoyingly optimistic' and I believe the answers to Bill's murder will come. I was 9 when Bill was murdered, so I have spent most of my life wondering why, praying for answers, hoping for something. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason to Bill's attacks and there will never be an excuse for why he was murdered. I know nothing will bring back my brother, and any answers we will be given won't make things ok. But the life of a my brother was taken and the life of our family altered forever... even in to the next generation. Someone is responsible for Bill's death and that person needs be held accountable. I will be glad when we can all stop the discussion and move on... to the next cold case.

 

[Methodical]

I completely agree with you that what you've stated here could be the case and is entirely possible and has happened before, however that's not at all what I was referring to or referencing. That's very different to a bunch of older kids getting high, Bill witnessing them getting high, them killing Bill for knowing they get high? Do drugs? No, that's way too much overkill. I don't think High School Kids have enough of a career or reputation to deem that a severe threat. Severe enough to murder someone to keep it hidden.

If the situ is limited to your scenario (teen or older kids doing drugs, getting high, even buying/selling small quantities of drugs) then yes, it is very unlikely this scenario in itself would be anything close to a motive for murder.

But that's not to say Bill's actual scenario was also limited to this type of "far less risk" drug scenario. We also don't know with any certainty, in the least, if Bill's murderers were high school age or much much older. Not at this point. We are also not certain, at all, if there were no highly powerful ppl, as I described, in his life, daily travels, or his case. So I don not see where we can simply discard any possible scenario, or any possible age group, or any possible level of drug or criminal activity.

 

[Methodical]

I want to express my thanks for everyone taking their time to brainstorm, research, ponder, and share with us. I believe there is a time for everything. Perhaps it's taken 34 years for this new DNA testing to come about because it's taken that long for the DNA of whomever it belongs to, to get in the system. Maybe 20 years ago if it were tested, we'd have no matches. I have been called 'annoyingly optimistic' and I believe the answers to Bill's murder will come. I was 9 when Bill was murdered, so I have spent most of my life wondering why, praying for answers, hoping for something. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason to Bill's attacks and there will never be an excuse for why he was murdered. I know nothing will bring back my brother, and any answers we will be given won't make things ok. But the life of a my brother was taken and the life of our family altered forever... even in to the next generation. Someone is responsible for Bill's death and that person needs be held accountable. I will be glad when we can all stop the discussion and move on... to the next cold case.

Very well stated Kat and I share every single one of your thoughts. I can't begin to tell you how sorry I am for your family's loss. Such a monumental (still an insufficient word & understatement) loss to such a great "gift to everyone he crossed paths with in life" person, such as Bill. I never knew Bill, however I feel that I do know Bill, thanks to you and Bob.

 

[SisterWolf]

If the situ is limited to your scenario (teen or older kids doing drugs, getting high, even buying/selling small quantities of drugs) then yes, it is very unlikely this scenario in itself would be anything close to a motive for murder.

But that's not to say Bill's actual scenario was also limited to this type of "far less risk" drug scenario. We also don't know with any certainty, in the least, if Bill's murderers were high school age or much much older. Not at this point. We are also not certain, at all, if there were no highly powerful ppl, as I described, in his life, daily travels, or his case. So I don not see where we can simply discard any possible scenario, or any possible age group, or any possible level of drug or criminal activity.

Sorry, that was probably my fault for the confusion - I should have quoted the original poster of the comment I was responding to and deeming 'unlikely'.

This is the big conundrum though - this case is SO open that we virtually can't rule anything out because most things we can think of could be a possibility. Where is that likely to get us though? I'm trying hard to think of and find things we definitely CAN rule out. I'm not saying we should discard the situ you stated above completely, we should just look at the likelihood of it in comparison to a scenario which might appear to look a lot stronger, or hold more weight, depending on where our sleuthing goes.

 

[katydid23]

SW,
I'm also glad you have brought this up and expressed your viewpoints and insights, in disagreement. It does make both sides think more on this topic. I'm not the best (far from it actually) in putting to words the information/insights that are in my head. But I'll try.

You are very correct, monetary aspect and violence aspect are total opposites in nature and in profile. I couldn't agree more. However, I think you are also using the same time frame in this case, for both opposing MO's. Let me throw this out there... sometimes/many times things evolve over time.

Take for instance a time frame 2 years prior to Bill's first attack. It's not beyond possibility that this monetary aspect could have been a reality in the early pre-stages and initial contact with whoever players are involved. Also initial involvement may have started with someone who actually didn't have a "hands-on" role in the physical attacks or murder of Bill. Who knows,, it may have started a year or two prior with an older player, say 35 yrs old or more, in a more passive control way. Then that person, much later, enlisted the help/involvement of student age criminal players, who naturally would have far less "passive" methods in profile. To date, there is far more things in this case that break all rules and just "don't make sense". Therefore, I feel nothing is beyond the realm of possibilities, even if on the surface, they seem to not match up.

Also, I forgot to address an earlier aspect of disagreement, relative to you not seeing how common partying/drug use by older (25-35) neighbors could be relevant to Bill's murder or case. Let me give you a hypothetical, which is within realm of actual motives for murder.
Let's say Bill was at the wrong place at the wrong time, and happened to see something, or have first hand insider knowledge of something sooo bad and jeopardizing to another person's (a person of utmost power/authority/stature) life, in regard to possible potential criminal conviction, long or life prison sentencing, or the end of a very powerful career, IF that person's act was ever exposed.
For example, what if Bill saw an LE Sgt, or a mayor, or a very wealthy husband & multi-million $$ corporation CEO do something soo seriously illegal, immoral, or felonious that it would end up being a "world ending & life altering" punishment if he, or his act, was ever exposed.
People have been know to kill people over FAR less life-jeopardizing things.

Just some expanded possibilities for thought. As there are actual murder case files, where this exact motive and scenario actually has occurred.

BBM

This is a very interesting scenario. I just yesterday asked my brother about his days as a paper boy. He was 13 and 14 when he had his route. I asked him if he could think of anything that would get a paperboy into trouble with his customers. He laughed and said a lot of things could. And he went on to tell me that he learned a lot of uncomfortable things about some of the neighborhood families. For example, he once stumbled upon a drunk man sleeping it off in his car in the driveway. And he saw some 'domestic' situations, like parents swatting their kids a bit hard. But one significant incident was that he saw his friend's father, leaving his neighbor's house early one morning. And a single mom lived there. He was married and lived next door. It was just before sunrise and my brother felt awkward seeing him leave the house, and pretended not to notice.

So it is quite possible that a paperboy could stumble into a very awkward secret.

 

[zoomom]

SW,
I'm also glad you have brought this up and expressed your viewpoints and insights, in disagreement. It does make both sides think more on this topic. I'm not the best (far from it actually) in putting to words the information/insights that are in my head. But I'll try.

You are very correct, monetary aspect and violence aspect are total opposites in nature and in profile. I couldn't agree more. However, I think you are also using the same time frame in this case, for both opposing MO's. Let me throw this out there... sometimes/many times things evolve over time.

Take for instance a time frame 2 years prior to Bill's first attack. It's not beyond possibility that this monetary aspect could have been a reality in the early pre-stages and initial contact with whoever players are involved. Also initial involvement may have started with someone who actually didn't have a "hands-on" role in the physical attacks or murder of Bill. Who knows,, it may have started a year or two prior with an older player, say 35 yrs old or more, in a more passive control way. Then that person, much later, enlisted the help/involvement of student age criminal players, who naturally would have far less "passive" methods in profile. To date, there is far more things in this case that break all rules and just "don't make sense". Therefore, I feel nothing is beyond the realm of possibilities, even if on the surface, they seem to not match up.

Also, I forgot to address an earlier aspect of disagreement, relative to you not seeing how common partying/drug use by older (25-35) neighbors could be relevant to Bill's murder or case. Let me give you a hypothetical, which is within realm of actual motives for murder.
Let's say Bill was at the wrong place at the wrong time, and happened to see something, or have first hand insider knowledge of something sooo bad and jeopardizing to another person's (a person of utmost power/authority/stature) life, in regard to possible potential criminal conviction, long or life prison sentencing, or the end of a very powerful career, IF that person's act was ever exposed.
For example, what if Bill saw an LE Sgt, or a mayor, or a very wealthy husband & multi-million $$ corporation CEO do something soo seriously illegal, immoral, or felonious that it would end up being a "world ending & life altering" punishment if he, or his act, was ever exposed.
People have been know to kill people over FAR less life-jeopardizing things.

Just some expanded possibilities for thought. As there are actual murder case files, where this exact motive and scenario actually has occurred.

THIS is what I was talking about! your post (556?) What if, Bill, in his heart of hearts, wanted to belong to something really, really badly? And just needed to keep quiet about what he knew? What if he saw something/heard something/thought he knew something, and it was imperative that he not mention it?? To keep the peace?

 

[SisterWolf]

THIS is what I was talking about! your post (556?) What if, Bill, in his heart of hearts, wanted to belong to something really, really badly? And just needed to keep quiet about what he knew? What if he saw something/heard something/thought he knew something, and it was imperative that he not mention it?? To keep the peace?

But he didn't mention it. He didn't mention anything. So how would they know he was going to tell everyone this "secret"? Why would they assume that he would? And yet, they killed him. So, am I understanding your point as being they had to be assured there were no risks or no future risks of Bill telling anyone, and that's why they killed him?

 

[zoomom]

But he didn't mention it. He didn't mention anything. So how would they know he was going to tell everyone this "secret"? Why would they assume that he would? And yet, they killed him. So, am I understanding your point as being they had to be assured there were no risks or no future risks of Bill telling anyone, and that's why they killed him?

That's what I'm wondering.

 

[zoomom]

That, or pure evil sadism.

 

[katydid23]

But he didn't mention it. He didn't mention anything. So how would they know he was going to tell everyone this "secret"? Why would they assume that he would? And yet, they killed him. So, am I understanding your point as being they had to be assured there were no risks or no future risks of Bill telling anyone, and that's why they killed him?

As an example, purely hypothetical, let's say Bill is on his paper route. And he happens to witness 2 teen boys having sexual contact of some sort, together. Or maybe a teen and a grown man. Or with a younger child.

Perhaps these people notice that they were seen. So they wait for him on his route another day, and threaten him, and tell him he better forget what he saw.Or else.

Maybe they were not convinced he was going to keep quiet. So they tried to get rid of him, but failed. idk But something along those lines.

 

[katydid23]

This kind of reminds me of the 'babysitter' killer in Michigan. A series of deaths attributed perhaps to a child molester ring.

 

[Methodical]

Sorry, that was probably my fault for the confusion - I should have quoted the original poster of the comment I was responding to and deeming 'unlikely'.

This is the big conundrum though - this case is SO open that we virtually can't rule anything out because most things we can think of could be a possibility. Where is that likely to get us though? I'm trying hard to think of and find things we definitely CAN rule out. I'm not saying we should discard the situ you stated above completely, we should just look at the likelihood of it in comparison to a scenario which might appear to look a lot stronger, or hold more weight, depending on where our sleuthing goes.

BBM: I have been battling the exact same wide swing of things/aspects that just are hard to comprehend "adding up" or making any true direction or sense. The problem so far has been the lack of "the complete story/details", which leaves us with many many small snippets of info, which ends up being mainly just "food for pure speculation". As we all know, pure speculation can go on for 1000 years and will result in being no closer to the solving of a crime or murder.

I 100% agree that we need to get sufficient quality info in order to be able to take a specific direction in this case. If not a specific direction, at least the ability to "safely" discard certain "previously thought of" possibilities.
This will require more info and details for each segment of this case. I have total confidence, that with time needed for the family to document these details/info and missing pieces, that we will be able to focus our efforts better, in the near future.

I fully realize the overwhelming task that faces Bob & Kat, in the act of remembering as many details as possible, considering a very long time has passed since back then. I am patient in the time needed for them to do this huge task. In the meantime, snippets of detailed info, and questions answered, coming in on a daily/weekly basis will also help greatly to get to that point where we can use far less speculation, and far more "informed" correct direction.

 

[zoomom]

Im thinking more along the line of....Main Dude (perhaps an idol figure) is caught, with Bill seeing/ or knowing something. Main dude's henchmen (teenagers or older), decide Bill must be threatened into silence (not dead). Teen henchmen over react, kill Bill, (why would they expose them selves 3 times!) and now everyone needs to keep their traps shut.


I'm only trying to help - not hurt.

 

[katydid23]

Im thinking more along the line of....Main Dude (perhaps an idol figure) is caught, with Bill seeing/ or knowing something. Main dude's henchmen (teenagers or older), decide Bill must be threatened into silence (not dead). Teen henchmen over react, kill Bill, (why would they expose them selves 3 times!) and now everyone needs to keep their traps shut.


I'm only trying to help - not hurt.

A very possible scenario ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Methodical]

Your reply to ZooMom quoted below:

But he didn't mention it. He didn't mention anything. So how would they know he was going to tell everyone this "secret"? Why would they assume that he would? And yet, they killed him. So, am I understanding your point as being they had to be assured there were no risks or no future risks of Bill telling anyone, and that's why they killed him?

This all originated from my post, so I'll respond also.
I think the *risk* of something being exposed by any person that is deemed not 100% trustworthy of keeping a life long secret, is often times a HUGE motivator in permanently silencing that chance, depending on the severity of the implications should "whatever secret/person" be exposed.

The fact that Bill never mentioned it or exposed it has no bearing on the perceived trustworthiness that Bill would *continue* to keep that information private. If Bill had exposed that "possible" secret, then the motive to kill him may not have gone away, but simply changed from "to prevent exposure" to... "sheer payback/retaliation".

 

[Tulessa]

Awake again! This case is so solvable, and I feel the answer is right in front of our noses. Take a look at the cold cases that have been attributed to WS members. Take a good look! The ones with the green *Match* in the title, were family members (deceased) that were reunited with their families by WS peeps. I have so much faith, and so much love in our members here, :blowkiss:
http://websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=488