Ohio puts 200-pound third-grader in foster care

[Chewy]

Why do you need to drink when you're thirsty? Hunger cues exist for a reason. While they can end up "misfiring" due to medical conditions, medication, or conditioning (such as under/over eating for an extended period of time), they are intended to give the person a signal that their body needs more fuel. Cravings, too, when the body is in optimum condition, give you signs that you need more iron, certain vitamins, fat, etc. While it may be necessary to realign your body's signals and ignore hunger cues if you are recovering from an eating disorder or some type of medication, in general, it's not a long term solution.

Things like feeling sleepy, thirst, or hunger are natural, important functions for the body. Ignoring your body or trying to make it bend to your will is never a good thing.

And also, just a personal anecdote - I had a friend whose mother was very health and size conscious. Neither my friend nor her sister were overweight, but they were never allowed seconds, even on days when they had extra physical activity, such as dance or playing outdoors. Portions were in proper line with their age and size, but they were strictly regimented. Guess who both developed eating disorders? My friend went through a very long stretch of restricted calories, ignoring her hunger cues. Her sister went nuts upon leaving the house, eating anything and everything far too often, because she was finally able to feel full. Of course, she went beyond satiation to feeling full to the point of discomfort, and it had an effect.

Telling a child to ignore their body's natural hunger pains is basically teaching a child disordered thinking with regards to food.

First of all you can dehydrate and die from lack of water so that is an extreme.

I don't have a regimented eating thing, that woman sounds like a nut job. But the point of food isn't to satisfy hunger.

It's the other way around. Food is supposed to be used to help the body thrive and run. Half the foods we eat have nothing to do with that. When we eat lasagna it isn't to fuel our body, it's because it tastes good.

So we need to educate our kids about healthy portions. I'm a bit taken aback that you would roll out the extreme arguments.

Being hungry can also be a sign of thirst. So a child can recognize it and drink water. The child can also eat a small snack. A handful of carrots or pop corn.

That is healthy. Eating until hunger pangs go away is not healthy. That is why so many people are obese in the first place. It actually takes a while for the brain to register fullness, so most people over eat because of this.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Oh, I agree that it seems, anyway, that the parents dropped the ball on this one, at least, based on what we know. But what if he was getting food from friends, or buying it after school with lunch or allowance money?

I just seems to me that if everyone is doing what they should be doing (parents, child) in terms of eating healthy foods in appropriate portion sizes and/or caloric guidelines, AND the child has no metabolic issue; AND the child has no underlying emotional issue that is not being treated, AND the child is active enough, THEN he shouldn't be morbidly obese, it simply cannot happen.

That's what makes me think we're not getting the whole story. There's something missing.

Exactly. Third graders do not end up 200 lbs naturally. This isn't a case where a child is even a little overweight. The average height of an eight year old is only 45 inches. That's only a little taller than a barstool. Two hundred pounds - and only coming up to the average person's waist. That's not a little bit overweight!

Either the child has a metabolic disorder, a mental disorder, or the parent is ignoring medical advice. Removal from the home will quickly show whether the mom is telling the truth. While I would have issues with CPS taking little Johnny away for being 50 lbs overweight - there is something very, very wrong in this situation. Third graders do not have the disposable income to buy themselves enough food to pack on that much weight if there was an emotional component. Doctors have been involved for over a year. It is unlikely that they haven't tested for metabolic disorders.

Two hundred pounds is far, far over the line for being overweight, even for a muscular, athletic child. Given the host of medical problems the child's obesity is causing and will cause, an intervention was absolutely necessary. It will become apparent very quickly whether mom was telling the truth or not. The sheer amount of calories needed to simply sustain that weight, outside of metabolic/medical causes is astronomical.

 

[Steely Dan]

BBM

I disagree. It's really as simple as eat less & move around more. It's not rocket science.

Unfortunately, this is just NOT the case with many/most of these children. The problems are more complex than that. While a severely restricted diet and increased exercise will reduce weight.....it will NEVER remove or erase the causes that contribute to the behavioral response to overeat.

It is not SIMPLE in the case of an obese child.....just as we can not say to an anorexic person "its really as simple as eating MORE and moving LESS" and your problems will all be over. That would never "fix" the emotional, social, medical, or psychological factors that lead to either anorexia or obesity. It isn't simple.....if it was simple......everyone would be thin and fit.

jmo

I agree with both of you. Linda's right in that the vast majority of cases of obesity are treatable through diet and exercise. However, Raeann is also correct in that those rules don't apply to everyone. There are several metabolic disorders or diseases that can be responsible. JMO

Bottom line...the child's parents had 18 months to get on board, make their child's health a priority. EIGHTEEN MONTHS !!! They had help and support ...just like the vast majority of abused & neglected foster children...the parents FAILED.

That's what bothers me too. After 18 months of no improvement and being checked out by doctors you'd have to think that the parents are doing something wrong. Some parents don't know how to say no to their kids. If this kid improves under foster care then the state was right. If there is no improvement then the state made a very serious error that will have lasting negative effects on the child. JMO

A 2007 study of lean versus morbidly obese subjects demonstrated a link between rapid gastric emptying of solid foods in the morbidly obese, leading to an increased caloric intake due to a lack of feeling full.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17476878

BACKGROUND: It has been suggested that obesity is associated with an altered rate of gastric emptying. The objective of the present study was to determine whether the rates of solid and semi-solid gastric emptying differ between morbidly obese patients and lean subjects.

CONCLUSION: The present study demonstrated a significantly enhanced gastric emptying of the solid meal test in morbidly obese patients when compared to lean subjects. This finding is compatible with the hypothesis that rapid gastric emptying in morbidly obese subjects increases caloric intake due to a more rapid loss of satiety.

Thanks, that's very interesting.

This part gets a little graphic and gross so proceed at your own risk.

About 12 years ago I went to a specialist who gave me some little white pill looking things to swallow. They were actually plastic coated magnetic things of some sort and I came back the next day and he gave me an X-Ray.

He found that things were moving through my intestinal tract about twice as fast as they should be. I had evacuated about half of these things when a normal person wouldn't have evacuated any in that time.

He diagnosed me with IBS and told me to take immodium every day. I take two immodium in the morning and two at night. Things still move very quickly through my body but it has made my stool a lot firmer under normal circumstances.

Most people get firmer stool from eating salad but for me it shoots through me and makes my stool softer. I still eat salad because it's not so severe that it causes pain or serious problems it's just something weird with my body.

I also have bowel movements three times a day or more on average.

 

[oh_gal]

Is there a dietician or nutritionist in the house??? We need a panel here to answer questions!

 

[Chewy]

http://www.wikihow.com/Eat-Properly

 

[AnaTeresa]

First of all you can dehydrate and die from lack of water so that is an extreme.


I don't have a regimented eating thing, that woman sounds like a nut job. But the point of food isn't to satisfy hunger.


It's the other way around. Food is supposed to be used to help the body trive and run. Half the foods we eat have nothing to do with that. When we eat lasagna it isn't to fuel our body, it's because it tastes good.


So we need to educate our kids about healthy portions. I'm a bit taken aback that you would roll out the extreme arguments.

Being hungry can also be a sign of thirst. So a child can recognize it and drink water. The child can also eat a small snack. A handful of carrots or pop corn.

That is healthy. Eating until hunger pangs go away is not healthy. That is why so many people are obese in the first place. It actually takes a while for the brain to register fullness, so most people over eat because of this.

You can also die from lack of food. Feeling thirsty generally indicates dehydration. Feeling hunger generally indicates needing food, provided everything is running smoothly. Hunger = needing food to thrive and run. (Again, provided your body is running right).

It's important to educate about healthy portions, yes. But above thread, you posted:

Even though I get where you are coming from, I have to wonder why it isn't simple to teach someone that THIS is a portion size and even if you are still hungry you have to stop eating.

It is certainly regimented to eat the mandated portion size and stop, even if you are still hungry. My friend's mother wasn't really a "nut job" - she thought she was helping her girls. She wanted them to be healthy. She didn't want them to be fat. She certainly didn't starve them, as she followed the proper, proscribed portions. However, teaching yourself to ignore your body's cues ("this is a portion size and even if you are still hungry you have to stop eating"), is just one step on the slippery-slope to disordered eating. It's not extreme to note that there are ramifications to restrictive eating.

 

[oh_gal]

http://www.wikihow.com/Eat-Properly

That had a lot of helpful info in it, thanks!

One little tidbit I would add (if anyone is trying to lose weight and/or eat less)...eat with your "non-dominant" hand. If you're right handed, eat with your left hand, and vice-versa.

 

[Chewy]

Sorry not to be a pain but science doesn't agree with you. The wiki link up there points out that it takes about 20 minutes for the brain to register fullness.

The stomach is only as big as a fist, I don't care how hungry you are, it is unhealthy to stretch out the stomach by eating too much on a regular basis because you feel hungry.

Your friend's mom is probably an unusual case. Mindful eaters are in general healthy eaters.

 

[krimekat]

Well, heck - I weighed 120 lbs in 7th grade & was the biggest kid in class (granted there were only 11 of us) . . . but it is the same size I am today !

A few years ago a tubby boy who went to school with my nephews (small agri-community in southern IL) -- he had an asthma attack on the bus & DIED! No one knew about his condition UNTIL the parents tried to sue the school district. They had no cause & the school district found that they did SINCE the family did not disclose his condition . . .

Again, why is our gov't THIS MUCH in our lives & still not taking care of us (facetiously spoken) !

I have no children so it's hard for me to think that those who do cannot or will not take care of their babies - just too dang SAD

 

[AnaTeresa]

Sorry not to be a pain but science doesn't agree with you. The wiki link up there points out that it takes about 20 minutes for the brain to register fullness.

The stomach is only as big as a fist, I don't care how hungry you are, it is unhealthy to stretch out the stomach by eating too much on a regular basis because you feel hungry.

Your friend's mom is probably an unusual case. Mindful eaters are in general healthy eaters.

I think we're talking past each other a bit. Based on your comment upthread, you said that after eating a proscribed portion, you must stop eating, even if you are hungry.

My counter to that was that hunger cues are there for a reason. It's one thing to eat slowly, pause for a while, or have a glass of water to see if you are still hungry. I'm not advocating shoveling food in until you feel bloated, by any means.

Now, you're advocating pretty much the same thing - water, celery, waiting, etc. I'm not sure if that's what you meant before and it was just worded in a way that wasn't clear, but I think we're actually not far from saying the same thing, just in different ways.

However, the manner in which parents teach their children about food is what determines whether a child is a mindful eater or develops disordered thinking about food. It's not "mindful" to teach children that their body's natural cues cannot be trusted.

 

[Steely Dan]

If I knew then what I know now life wouldn't have been so stressful. When my little butter ball was young (8-10) he was a chubby wubby no matter how little he ate. Looking back at piccies now I have a hard time believing he was so round on the diet he lived on. Not 100% healthy, but also not full of hormones and preservatives either. We never went the journal route, but we did watch his intake closely. I was certain he'd be a 300 pound teen if he kept up the weight gain.

I really believe genetics have a play in how our children grow. Looking back at pics of DH, he was also a butter ball during the same time. But both DH and DS have grown up to be tall and lean. So go figure.

My opinion is if you're child is eating healthy, consuming the appropriate number of calories, and getting enough exercise - don't stress about it. Chances are he/she is gonna grow into a tall lean teenager and have some pretty darn good eating habits! Of course I'm no doctor, just speaking from my experience.

MOO

Mel

ETA piccie. Pretty much the same diet at 5th grade and 9th grade -- just now he eats a whole lot more and is about 3 foot taller!

View attachment 19878

I'm going strictly from memory on this so forgive me for not having a link. I recall Dr. Dean Edell saying that putting kids on diets is a bad thing. Parents should let their kids grow into their own bodies.

This is an extreme case but if a kid is only 20 pounds over weight it may just be the way it should be.

Sorry not to be a pain but science doesn't agree with you. The wiki link up there points out that it takes about 20 minutes for the brain to register fullness.

The stomach is only as big as a fist, I don't care how hungry you are, it is unhealthy to stretch out the stomach by eating too much on a regular basis because you feel hungry.

Your friend's mom is probably an unusual case. Mindful eaters are in general healthy eaters.

Up until the time I was about 30 I could eat anything and I'd never gain an ounce. When I was a kid and a teenager I was very active. Through the college years I was less active but around 30 my metabolism slowed down a lot and I began to gain weight. My stomach had probably been stretched because I needed to keep up with my metabolism when I was younger and when I ate the same amount to feel right it was too much.

Before I hit about 30 I could sit down and watch the old Letterman show at 12:30 while consuming an entire pint of Ben and Jerry's and never gain an ounce. Burgers, fries, chicken wings and a lot of other unhealthy foods never made me gain any weight. Ahhhh, those were the days.

At one point I lost a lot of weight by limiting myself to 1,000 calories a day, but I became lazy with counting calories and gained it back and I'm now overweight.

 

[Chewy]

Sounds like most of us. I'm overweight as well. But it is because I eat too much like you just described. There is no reason for an 8 year old to weigh 200 pounds unless there is a medical problem and if there is his parents should have gotten him the attention he needed.

 

[oh_gal]

I'm going strictly from memory on this so forgive me for not having a link. I recall Dr. Dean Edell saying that putting kids on diets is a bad thing. Parents should let their kids grow into their own bodies.

This is an extreme case but if a kid is only 20 pounds over weight it may just be the way it should be.




Up until the time I was about 30 I could eat anything and I'd never gain an ounce. When I was a kid and a teenager I was very active. Through the college years I was less active but around 30 my metabolism slowed down a lot and I began to gain weight. My stomach had probably been stretched because I needed to keep up with my metabolism when I was younger and when I ate the same amount to feel right it was too much.

Before I hit about 30 I could sit down and watch the old Letterman show at 12:30 while consuming an entire pint of Ben and Jerry's and never gain an ounce. Burgers, fries, chicken wings and a lot of other unhealthy foods never made me gain any weight. Ahhhh, those were the days.

At one point I lost a lot of weight by limiting myself to 1,000 calories a day, but I became lazy with counting calories and gained it back and I'm now overweight.

And we love you, just the way you are. :blowkiss:

 

[krimekat]

So...you would sacrifice the life of a child?

These people had 1 1/2 years to show an improvement; the parents attended nutrition/healthy eating classes; nothing worked. Are we supposed to just stand by, and watch a child die rather than have government officials step in? Maybe the parents have some type of learning disability (being totally serious here)...and maybe they just don't "get it." Shouldn't someone help them? Their family, friends, church, and doctor weren't having any luck, if they were trying to help.

Saving a child's life is "over the top"? Would it be "over the top" if it were a child you loved and cared about? Or would you do anything necessary to save them?

you would sacrifice the life of a child? No

This should have nothing to do with us but with that family, specifically !

And yes, I would do anything I could & have in the example of my nephew who as a freshman in HS was 280 lbs at 5'6". We exercised, I showed him how to eat ('cause his mother/my sister doesn't) & he is now 6'6" 212 lbs as a freshman in college.

I believe the gov't has better things to do than weigh children . . .

I suspect he is in public school . . .where is their culpability?

 

[oh_gal]

you would sacrifice the life of a child? No

This should have nothing to do with us but with that family, specifically !

And yes, I would do anything I could & have in the example of my nephew who as a freshman in HS was 280 lbs. We exercised, I should him how to eat ('cause his mother/my sister doesn't) & he is now 6'6" 212 lbs.

I believe the gov't has better things to do than weigh children

Then who should help this family, if they cannot help themselves, and their family, friends, church, doctor and social services were unable to have an impact?

 

[krimekat]

<<Respectfully Snipped>>

I also have bowel movements three times a day or more on average.

Lucky you!!!

 

[krimekat]

Then who should help this family, if they cannot help themselves, and their family, friends, church, doctor and social services were unable to have an impact?

Should NOT be our collective problem . . . geez!

Gov't is not the solution to our problems, gov't is our problem . . .

 

[Steely Dan]

Lucky you!!!

It does explain why I'm so full of it. :crazy:

 

[mywarmbluefleece]

I can understand removing a severely obese child from parents who refuse to cooperate with a doctor's treatment plan.

Not every overeating child gets this big. There is something WRONG, more than an overly indulgent parent. Just as reasonable as removing a diabetic child whose parents refuse to provide insulin and proper diet.

Anyone remember Jessica, the four hundred pound little one? She must be a teenager by now. I don't think she was removed forcibly, but she was sent into residential treatment for her obesity. I saw a YouTube of her recently. She's very delayed. She has obvious emotional and mental problems which you can't help but assume tie into how a four year old child could weigh 400 pounds. She was not just an over indulged child, she had/has a severe disability.

That said, I seriously doubt the child welfare system is going to go about snatching children with high BSA's. They can't even manage to protect much the children being beaten and raped and locked in cages. I'm not worried this will get out of control.

I do have concerns about too much government intrusion into private lives, as well.

There is a condition where the part of the brain that controls appetite is damaged. It also causes intellectual disabilities. I wonder if Jessica had that. It's a horrible syndrome- I've had students with it. All they can think about is food because they never feel full. It's called Prader Willi Syndrome. I'm not suggesting any of these kids do, but I wonder if they've been tested.

 

[oh_gal]

Should NOT be our collective problem . . . geez!

Gov't is not the solution to our problems, gov't is our problem . . .

I understand what you are saying. I really do.
It does not answer the question, though. There is no one left to help these people...except for the government to step in.

Government agencies stepping in and giving us a hand are nothing new.
We have (to name just a very few):

United States Department of Agriculture
Dept. of Education
Depart. of Energy

and for our protection:

The Department of Defense
The Department of Homeland Security

for our Veterans:
Department of Veterans Affairs

So....I really don't understand why them stepping in and giving this family a hand is an issue.

Are there problems within any of these departments? Of course there are....as there are in any large corporation, private or public. But they also do their share of good.