OK - Boy, 9, Stabbed to Death by Girl, 12, in Custody, Tulsa, Jan 2023

[mickey2942]

I have worked with kids who had behavioral disorders. And they are scary. A 2nd grader who draws pictures of him stabbing someone, in this case, it was me, standing over me with a knife dripping blood.

These kids are not just "imaginative". It isn't normal. I wonder how much weird stuff the 12 year old did before, and it was just "shrugged" off.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

IMO- The girl would have been struggling with significant symptoms for awhile to be put on medication. So things weren't okay in the first place.

The NY Post article says one of the ADHD medications.

Mom of 12-year-old who fatally stabbed brother stands by her daughter despite horrific attack

The children’s heartbroken mother, April Lyda, stated that the “pair loved each other and always got along until the very end.”

nypost.com

Then her mother said she self-harmed.

What was the medication supposed to help with, and how did the medication affect her mental and emotional state?

You have to wonder if this would have happened had she never taken it.

Also I think she would have had trauma from witnessing the alcoholism/animal abuse in 2017 (same link). Who knows how that affected her.

And were there were any other incidents that traumatized her?

 

[MsMarple]

IMO- The girl would have been struggling with significant symptoms for awhile to be put on medication. So things weren't okay in the first place.

The NY Post article says one of the ADHD medications.

Mom of 12-year-old who fatally stabbed brother stands by her daughter despite horrific attack

The children’s heartbroken mother, April Lyda, stated that the “pair loved each other and always got along until the very end.”

nypost.com

Then her mother said she self-harmed.

What was the medication supposed to help with, and how did the medication affect her mental and emotional state?

You have to wonder if this would have happened had she never taken it.

Also I think she would have had trauma from witnessing the alcoholism/animal abuse in 2017 (same link). Who knows how that affected her.

And were there were any other incidents that traumatized her?

Yeah there seems to be some conflicting information. In the online fundraiser quoted in your link the mother implied the girl only acted out when on the ADHD med but in the News Nation video link upthread she said the doctor recommended the girl go back on the medication because she was having trouble.

Also, the mother talked about the girl’s support “team” which makes me wonder if a lawsuit is in play. Or maybe it’s typical in the state’s juvenile system to appoint teams to work individually with young offenders so JMO.

What disturbs me is the mother explaining about the non bio father figure who treated the girl “like his own.” The same man who tortured and killed her cat? That’s messed up IMO and I suspect there’s a bigger picture here.

In any case I can’t begin to imagine the nightmare this mother is living. It sounds like she was struggling to provide for her family and was In over her head trying to deal with her children’s problems. I hope she and her daughter both get the help they need.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

What disturbs me is the mother explaining about the non bio father figure who treated the girl “like his own.” The same man who tortured and killed her cat? That’s messed up IMO and I suspect there’s a bigger picture here.

RSBM.
I completely agree.

 

[MissMalowe]

I read the daily mail article about the dad/stepdad and the cat & kitten incident but am confused....this was HER cat (the arrested12 year old?) He did this in the home and was arrested for it (so mom, 12 year old daughter or son told police? Or someone else in the house or?) Then mom still allowed 9 year old son to spend time with him (probably legally has to since he's the dad) but also continued to allow the daughter to hang around him after this too?

Certainly I must be misunderstanding something or have this info confused?

If not, my how one can change their tune quickly, at the expense of children.

 

[Hoosgirl]

It wasn't her cat. I don't believe she was at his home at the time. My guess not. But still very disturbing.

"Zander's father is 39-year-old Levi Lyda. In 2017 - when Zander was four and the girl was six - he tortured and killed a pet cat that belonged to another of his daughters in Missouri."

 

[Hoosgirl]

Found another article from the time of the incident:

Lyda is accused of beating his daughter’s kitten to death last month while alone at his ex-wife’s home on Robin Drive in St. Charles. His ex-wife found drops of blood in the house and then found the kitten lifeless in the back yard, police said.

St. Charles man accused of killing daughter’s kitten

ST. CHARLES, Mo. – A St. Charles man is accused of torturing his daughter’s kitten. The county prosecutor has increased the charge in the case. Levi Lyda, 33, is now charged with felony anima…

www.google.com

 

[AngTxGal]

Yeah there seems to be some conflicting information. In the online fundraiser quoted in your link the mother implied the girl only acted out when on the ADHD med but in the News Nation video link upthread she said the doctor recommended the girl go back on the medication because she was having trouble.

Also, the mother talked about the girl’s support “team” which makes me wonder if a lawsuit is in play. Or maybe it’s typical in the state’s juvenile system to appoint teams to work individually with young offenders so JMO.

What disturbs me is the mother explaining about the non bio father figure who treated the girl “like his own.” The same man who tortured and killed her cat? That’s messed up IMO and I suspect there’s a bigger picture here.

In any case I can’t begin to imagine the nightmare this mother is living. It sounds like she was struggling to provide for her family and was In over her head trying to deal with her children’s problems. I hope she and her daughter both get the help they need.

What a tragic situation, my heart is broken for the little boy, preteen girl, her parents and other family members. This is a life altering situation for all involved.

This case also has possible impacts that are wide and deep…
If the mom is blaming murder on ADHD meds, and this is possible, we have an huge issue boiling up here!

ADHD is a learning disability and also a mental illness- quite common for kids to be in school having been diagnosed

- the number of kids identified as ADHD is quite high- about 6 million kids states range with estimates 9-16% of kids between ages of 12-17 yrs
- of those kids identified, most are on meds- 75%
- about half of kids identified as ADHD also have another issue- behavior issue, anxiety, depression, among others
- these kids are in school with peers, supervised by a teacher

CDC- ADHD stats 2016-2019

The release of this footage will put this case in the public eye.
We need accurate information regarding the med and state of her on and off it!
<modsnip - opinion stated as fact>

JMO

 

[Breezie]

Girl who stabbed brother had been on ADHD medication for years

April Lyda appeared on Chris Cuomo's NewsNation show last night to share why she thinks her daughter, who DailyMail.com is not naming, snapped.

www.dailymail.co.uk

She also revealed that two weeks before the attack, the girl told some of her friends that she had 'thoughts' about stabbing him, but none of them spoke up.

Because she was under the age of 13, she will not be charged as an adult. In Oklahoma, prosecutors can charge anyone 13 and over as an adult if they deem it appropriate.

In this case, the girl will be processed through juvenile court.

All of the records of her case are sealed.

At a maximum, she will be required to spend a few years in custody at a juvenile facility

 

[Palisades]

Girl who stabbed brother had been on ADHD medication for years

April Lyda appeared on Chris Cuomo's NewsNation show last night to share why she thinks her daughter, who DailyMail.com is not naming, snapped.

www.dailymail.co.uk

She also revealed that two weeks before the attack, the girl told some of her friends that she had 'thoughts' about stabbing him, but none of them spoke up.

Because she was under the age of 13, she will not be charged as an adult. In Oklahoma, prosecutors can charge anyone 13 and over as an adult if they deem it appropriate.

In this case, the girl will be processed through juvenile court.

All of the records of her case are sealed.

At a maximum, she will be required to spend a few years in custody at a juvenile facility

So much to unpack here.

First the mothers statement on the says her daughter did not have mental health. ADHD is a mental health issue.

Second this article makes the medication/ homeschooling / public schooling timeline unclear. In one place the mother claims the girl was on meds for 5 years, went off of it to homeschool. The it is stated when the girl went back to school her grades slipped and she was put back on the meds for doctors because her grades were slipping. Then the mother says going back on the medication was to blame because the girl was fine off of it.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Do you stop ADHD meds cold-turkey, or do doctors ask you to taper off? I am really asking because I know you have to taper off some types of medication.

I do believe the wrong medication or withdrawal from medication can cause or contribute to the symptoms her daughter had.
I see her as a victim, too.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Do you stop ADHD meds cold-turkey, or do doctors ask you to taper off? I am really asking because I know you have to taper off some types of medication.

I do believe the wrong medication or withdrawal from medication can cause or contribute to the symptoms her daughter had.
I see her as a victim, too.

I cannot speak for other types but I know with Vyvanse you can just come off them cold turkey. The medication does not stay in the system and only lasts for 6-8 hours and then that's it, its gone from your body. This is why some doctors tell people they can take the weekends off from meds (as there is no work or school that you need to be focussing on).
But then this raises an issue for me. The meds don't stay in your system after it has worn off, so how could the meds be to blame if she had taken her off them (again) a few weeks before the stabbing?
Like I said I am not sure how other adhd meds work, but I know that Vyvanse and ones like it can be stopped cold turkey.

 

[TravelingBug]

This is why some doctors tell people they can take the weekends off from meds (as there is no work or school that you need to be focussing on).

I know a long time ago when I was teaching and Ritalin was by far the most prescribed ADHD med, that similarly, many kids didn't take it over weekends or holidays.

 

[cocomod]

I brought up Adderall early on. IF she was taking Adderall and went off cold turkey, it could have caused a number of issues. One other situation would be IF she took the Adderall behind her mom's back.

Here is an article about Adderall:

Is Stopping Adderall Cold Turkey Safe? | Amethyst Recovery

Learn why stopping Adderall cold turkey is not safe, how to safely stop taking Adderall, and what happens when you do.

www.amethystrecovery.org

When you stop taking Adderall, especially if you stop cold turkey, you’re likely going to experience withdrawal symptoms. Stopping Adderall cold turkey can cause excessive sleep, dysphoria, and psychomotor issues that could be dangerous in some situations. It also increases the risk of cardiac arrest, seizures, and psychosis for those with an addiction.

 

[Breezie]

Mom of 12-year-old 'brother killer' seen visiting troubled daughter

DailyMail.com previously revealed that the girl grew up surrounded by felons, drug addicts and white supremacists.

Her father is a convicted felon who is currently in jail and has ties to the white supremacist gang Universal Aryan Brotherhood.

Her stepfather was arrested in 2017 for torturing a cat to death and her mother battled drug addiction, shooting up several times a day, until she learned she was pregnant with the now suspected brother killer.

But Mitchell is adamant that the family's background is not to blame.

'I blame her ADHD medicine,' she says. 'And I'm going to sue the drug company and the doctor who prescribed it to my daughter.'

Mitchell explained her daughter was diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder shortly before she turned seven.

'Her ADHD wasn't really bad, but she couldn't focus at school,' Mitchell said.

She took low daily amounts of Intuniv for five years.

'She started having visions and hallucinations,' Mitchell said. 'She would tell me she was seeing ghosts.'

 

[MsMarple]

Mom of 12-year-old 'brother killer' seen visiting troubled daughter

DailyMail.com previously revealed that the girl grew up surrounded by felons, drug addicts and white supremacists.

Her father is a convicted felon who is currently in jail and has ties to the white supremacist gang Universal Aryan Brotherhood.

Her stepfather was arrested in 2017 for torturing a cat to death and her mother battled drug addiction, shooting up several times a day, until she learned she was pregnant with the now suspected brother killer.

But Mitchell is adamant that the family's background is not to blame.

'I blame her ADHD medicine,' she says. 'And I'm going to sue the drug company and the doctor who prescribed it to my daughter.'

Mitchell explained her daughter was diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder shortly before she turned seven.

'Her ADHD wasn't really bad, but she couldn't focus at school,' Mitchell said.

She took low daily amounts of Intuniv for five years.

'She started having visions and hallucinations,' Mitchell said. 'She would tell me she was seeing ghosts.'

Yeah, I suspected she may have already contacted a lawyer when she talked about her daughter's "team" working with her.

So the drug has been named - Intuniv. Side effects seem to mostly be low blood pressure and sleepiness although the link lists additional effects. I viewed several sites and didn't find any side effects that describe what the mother reported but it's not unusual for drug companies to downplay serious psychological effects.

I finally found a source that talks about hallucinations and depression:

Intuniv (guanfacine): Side Effects, Uses, Dosage, Interactions, Warnings

Intuniv is a prescription medicine used to treat the symptoms of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). Learn side effects, dosage, drug interactions, warnings, patient labeling, reviews, and more.

www.rxlist.com

So someone must have reported a patient experiencing hallucinations and depression. No way to tell how many reports were submitted.

How much of the girl's behavior is due to her environment vs the drug? And why on earth would a doctor recommend putting her back on a med that made her hallucinate ghosts? There are other meds to try. I think we're missing some information. MOO

 

[Sarahlou]

It makes more sense after reading that article about the horrible environment she grew up in, as to why this girl turned out like she did. I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

[MsMarple]

It makes more sense after reading that article about the horrible environment she grew up in, as to why this girl turned out like she did. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Agreed. It looks like the odds were stacked against her even before she started the medication.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Intuniv is a non-stimulant ADHD medication. I think is one of the newer generation adhd medications.
That is curious to me, but I haven't really looked into it.
On a side note: I did once have to make an official side effect 'report' for medication and it was a finicky process.
and seemingly to those involved, revolved around some yellow card. (2005 UK)