OK OK - Girl Scout Murders, Lori Farmer, 8, Michelle Guse, 9, Doris Milner, 10, 1977

[Leomoon80]

Can anyone do the impossible? I've tried but cannot find lists for camp counselors anywhere. I have been researching this case for a long time and I truly believe that these two cases are connected . https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...g-1963&usg=AFQjCNEdZ0N9a3OZh9HAYfJWmhKrhImo6w
Due to the fact that in OK DW's shoes appeared on steps during investigation. In CO. it seems no one heard anything even though the victim put up a serious fight??

I don't know if it helps or not, but I kept some notes from long ago (I thought from this forum) , and CarlaSue Wilhite was the counselor who went to take the shower at 6A.M. and saw the one body. The other two little girls were zipped in their sleeping bags

Here testimony is here:
http://girlscoutmurders.com/ORIENTATION.html

 

[MaryG12]

OK I did a little bit of further research:

The GS Council that owned Camp Scott (Magic Empire Council) is still in existence in Tulsa (has anyone tried contacting them for info?).

Also - am trying to step completely outside of what we know about this case thus far - maybe someone in the OK area can investigate Tulsa city records and find out if Magic Empire Council had any kind of financial or otherwise issues with Camp Scott in the preceding years before these murders took place.

 

[MaryG12]

Re: Carla Sue Wilhite:

http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/PEOPLE.html

Carla Wilhite - Counselor at Camp Scott in the Kiowa Unit. She heard animal like sounds in the woods directly outside the Kiowa unit camping area, Carla is the first to have discovered the bodies a little after 6 AM on June 13th, 1977. She later became a police officer.

Later on:

http://unm.academia.edu/CarlaWilhite/CurriculumVitae

I wonder what made her change careers.....

 

[jon70]

Thanks for the replies. I will try to contact or find on web.

 

[Betty P]

I don't know if it helps or not, but I kept some notes from long ago (I thought from this forum) , and CarlaSue Wilhite was the counselor who went to take the shower at 6A.M. and saw the one body. The other two little girls were zipped in their sleeping bags

Here testimony is here:
http://girlscoutmurders.com/ORIENTATION.html

There was a 14 year gap between these Girl Scout camp murders. IIRC, the counselors at the OK camp were in their late teens. They would have been pre schoolers at the time of the CO murders.

As for Carol Wilhite, wasn't she the counselor whose eyeglasses were stolen by the killer that night? IIRC they were later found where Gene Leroy Hart was captured.

 

[Simply Caustic]

The book is really worth searching out. I read it when new then found a couple more copies during my NE OK years -- sold one, one lost in moves, and still have another. If I can find it I could loan it. And if anyone visits the area and likes to thrift, keep your eyes open -- nice to pay $1.99 for it.

Hi Godot! I knew I would see you on this thread - we posted back on the Jamison's thread, years back, and your knowledge about OK was extensive.

May I ask what leads many here to think that Gene Hart was legitimately innocent of this crime? I realize there wasn't quite enough evidence to convict, and I understand that he was found not guilty by a jury. However, the DNA - 1 in 100,000, was it? My memory isn't the best - and him having the eyeglasses from the camp counselor, plus prior brutal rape charges...it's suggestive to me of guilt, but maybe I'm missing some
Info. Thanks all!


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[wfgodot]

Hi Godot! I knew I would see you on this thread - we posted back on the Jamison's thread, years back, and your knowledge about OK was extensive.

May I ask what leads many here to think that Gene Hart was legitimately innocent of this crime? I realize there wasn't quite enough evidence to convict, and I understand that he was found not guilty by a jury. However, the DNA - 1 in 100,000, was it? My memory isn't the best - and him having the eyeglasses from the camp counselor, plus prior brutal rape charges...it's suggestive to me of guilt, but maybe I'm missing some
Info. Thanks all!

Intuition.

(Plus, see #149 above.)

 

[wfgodot]

Not sure if this (from the Daily Oklahoman, 06.25.08) has been linked here:

Was a female involved in 1977 Girl Scout slayings?

 

[Simply Caustic]

Not sure if this (from the Daily Oklahoman, 06.25.08) has been linked here:

Was a female involved in 1977 Girl Scout slayings?

Never saw this one before! Thank you!

I wasn't born when this happened, have never been to OK - but this case touches me deeply.


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[MelmothTheLost]

Yes, Hart's semen was DNA matched to that found inside the 3 girls.
You can find the updated info on You Tube on " Someone Cry For The Children", which was produced by the Discovery channel and aired sometime in the late 80s. DNA testing had advanced to the point that they could definitely say that Hart was the attacker.

DNA testing did not exist at all until the mid 1980s. It was developed as a forensic technique by Professor Sir Alec Jeffreys of the University of Leicester in the UK and was first used in a criminal case to secure the conviction of Colin Pitchfork for two rape-murders in 1988. In 1989 it was still very much cutting edge technology and required substantial samples to obtain a result.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Jeffreys

 

[MaryG12]

Not sure if this (from the Daily Oklahoman, 06.25.08) has been linked here:

Was a female involved in 1977 Girl Scout slayings?

Nice to know I am not the only one who thinks the suspect might be "on the inside."

I don't believe Hart did it from what I have read, it sounds like he seemed a likely suspect in order to cover up for someone else. Or as they say, he was "framed" for the murders.

 

[MaryG12]

And like I said a few posts back - maybe find out what made CW change careers from LE to occupational therapy.

Ideally, to find out the names of all the camp counselors and whoever else was on campgrounds at the time the GS murders happened and do DNA on them too...

 

[wfgodot]

Nice to know I am not the only one who thinks the suspect might be "on the inside."

I don't believe Hart did it from what I have read, it sounds like he seemed a likely suspect in order to cover up for someone else. Or as they say, he was "framed" for the murders.

Hart was the nearest likely Indian, in their opinion. In Oklahoma, that was good enough in 1977.

(Remember the first image released in the murders of Taylor and Skyla? It was good enough in 2008 as well.)

 

[MaryG12]

Hart was the nearest likely Indian, in their opinion. In Oklahoma, that was good enough in 1977.

(Remember the first image released in the murders of Taylor and Skyla? It was good enough in 2008 as well.)

That may be, I think despite the fact the GS murders happened in '77 and Hart was acquitted, now is the time to explore other options, potential suspects, motives, etc.


Being a GS during that decade and into the early 1980's myself, I would like to see justice for these 3 little girls.

 

[Betty P]

Hart was the nearest likely Indian, in their opinion. In Oklahoma, that was good enough in 1977.

(Remember the first image released in the murders of Taylor and Skyla? It was good enough in 2008 as well.)

So, who was living in the nearby cave, who stole the items used at the crime scene from the local farmer? Are you saying that person was a friend of one of the camp counselors who helped them kill the girls that night?

 

[wfgodot]

So, who was living in the nearby cave, who stole the items used at the crime scene from the local farmer? Are you saying that person was a friend of one of the camp counselors who helped them kill the girls that night?

I truly don't know. I do know Hart was found not guilty.

 

[HoneyWest]

And like I said a few posts back - maybe find out what made CW change careers from LE to occupational therapy.

Ideally, to find out the names of all the camp counselors and whoever else was on campgrounds at the time the GS murders happened and do DNA on them too...

CW is on twitter and facebook. Why don't you ask her privately?

Have you read through the discussion board Oklahoma 1977 Girl Scout Murders on Yuku? I urge you to do so. CW posted many times in a thread around page 7 and might answer many of your questions. Also remember, these women are not suspects or persons of interest, so sleuthing not allowed. Nobody at the Magic Empire Council is going to hand over a list of names of every counselor at the camp, nor will you get a list of names of the girls who were camping in the Kiowa unit that night. PTSD is very real for a lot of these women now. Some never speak of what happened, but still read discussion boards...

 

[Betty P]

CW is on twitter and facebook. Why don't you ask her privately?

Have you read through the discussion board Oklahoma 1977 Girl Scout Murders on Yuku? I urge you to do so. CW posted many times in a thread around page 7 and might answer many of your questions. Also remember, these women are not suspects or persons of interest, so sleuthing not allowed. Nobody at the Magic Empire Council is going to hand over a list of names of every counselor at the camp, nor will you get a list of names of the girls who were camping in the Kiowa unit that night. PTSD is very real for a lot of these women now. Some never speak of what happened, but still read discussion boards...

Thanks for your comment. From what I've read, these women have suffered quite a bit. They've done all they can to help resolve these murders and find the killer(s) responsible. The odds of it being one of them are pretty miniscule.

 

[jon70]

I have not recieved any reply from the Tulsa, OK girl scouts for a list of counselors, will send another request within week if no reply before then.

 

[reintarnation]

I have not recieved any reply from the Tulsa, OK girl scouts for a list of counselors, will send another request within week if no reply before then.

Thanks, jon70!

And thanks to everyone else on this board. I love how active it has been. 40 year anniversary coming up...

Been awhile since I took a deep dive on this case, but it looks like I have a lot of reading to do thanks to everyone's contributions. So many resources...we gotta be able to shake something loose!

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