OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

[Mapman]

Granny5500,
I am talking about this first picture. Somebody in the white shirt, now look behing the passenger side door. Is that not the top portion of a person in a green shirt. Head rises above door, now in the second picture you see nothing. What is that between the passenger side doors?

It looks like the guy in the green shirt so there must be two different guys. And the white vehicle does look different. The dark areas that look like stripes on the lower part of the doors, and even the grill looks a little different. That orange thing on the roof seems to be on the vehicle in the video and at the well site. If the video date defaulted to 1/1/2000 when it was installed, maybe the true date is two months and seven days after it was fired up. Didn't some relative have it installed while they were living with the Jamisons?

 

[OkieGranny]

Okay, here's everything from, uh, let's call it Camera 1:

From the Disappeared episode:

http://youtu.be/TOkHqsCOjns

 

[TooCurious]

Ok, so lets say he just changed shirts....did he change shoes too? Look close at the feet, you can see white on the first pic and you can't see any on the second pic.

 

[OkieGranny]

And here's everything from Camera 2:

From the Disappeared episode:

http://youtu.be/TOkHqsCOjns

 

[OkieGranny]

Ok, so lets say he just changed shirts....did he change shoes too? Look close at the feet, you can see white on the first pic and you can't see any on the second pic.

I thought so at first, but when I started looking at the other pics, there's a white piece of trash or something on the ground and it looks like he either stepped on it or near it, and that's what made me think his shoes looked different.

 

[SmoothOperator]

MOO but all of the still shots from "Camera 1" clear up any doubt I had about the truck in the video not matching with the truck abandoned on the mtn..

Thanks OkieGranny for posting those stills..they definitely cleared up that issue for me..

 

[OkieGranny]

Here's side-by-sides of the front end of the truck. I only see one fog light in the video still; it looks like something white hanging off the hood and draped across that chrome bar thingy around the fog lights. Like a towel maybe? Or a t-shirt? And there's mud along the lower edges of the doors, probably from their first trip to the mountain the day before.

Side view. Front and back passenger side doors open, tinted windows, bed liner.

Was it ever determined whether the hood on the truck was ajar when it was found, or did LE open it?

 

[salgtrn]

Also, I noticed in the video that the only thing I saw Sherilynn load into the vehicle (and appeared to be putting in the passenger side floorboard) that looked like a briefcase or satchel looked like the blue cooler that was in the passenger side floorboard in the evidence pictures. Anyone else notice this??

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

There were several locations for the hits, and the distance between the two most widely separated clues is about 75 yards. This would seem to suggest that the remains were there long enough to decompose enough to be located by a HRD and to lose integrity either by decomposition and/or by animals. This would seem to rule out a quick execution immediately followed by dragging the bodies to a vehicle to transport elsewhere.

Multiple and scattered HRD hits aren't necessarily due to scattered remains; it has to do with the dispersal of the scent and where it lingers or doesn't linger. I refer again to MTRTA Manager's posts in the Brandon Swanson case:

"These are areas where certified Human Remains Detection dogs displayed behavior consistent with interest in human remains. We have over 500 points of interest in this case [<-----note: this is just for one missing person!], which is a staggering amount. Why so many? The constant, driving winds in the area have moved scent great distances and caused the scent picture to be quite confusing."

This S&R person also mentioned in another post that scent can "pool" in low-lying areas because it doesn't get blown around as much.

So, that's how that works. I had no idea until I read that thread, it was fascinating.

Also, as I understand it, HRD dogs are able to detect the residual scent of a dead human body very soon after death -- long before what we think of as "decomposition" would occur.

P.S. Dogs are amazing. I am in awe of these animals and the folks who train them.

 

[Dallen]

Honestly, I just don't see different shoes on the man. Different shirt, yes. Different shoes? No.

 

[OkieGranny]

Side-by-side of the passenger side doors. The back door was standing open until 2:18:22, and then it was closed from 2:20:47 through the rest of the pics.

 

[Dallen]

Okay, here's everything from, uh, let's call it Camera 1:

From the Disappeared episode:

http://youtu.be/TOkHqsCOjns

Maybe I'm imagining things now, but does it look like a person standing back on the right side of the storage container, down by the street? Or is that just part of the tree?

ETA: maybe it's a mailbox....then the tree is in the way....??

 

[TooCurious]

OkGranny, thanks for posting all that. It cleared up a lot for me. Stepping on that piece of trash is why it looks like that. Camera 1 helped a lot.

It is kinda curious though that there is a 2:25 second gap where the door closes and the presumed "mass" disappears, and it is the only lengthy gap of time.

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

I'm beginning to think it's possible that the Jamisons were killed on the mountain that day and their bodies left there, and then someone came back on the 12th, checked the voicemail on Bobby's phone to see if anyone was looking for them yet, and moved the bodies to the location where they were eventually found.

And maybe that person(s) drove four-wheeler(s) that first day, but drove a truck on the 12th, because it would be tough to transport three bodies on a four-wheeler, plus the bodies would be very visible to anyone who saw them driving by. But you could throw bodies in the bed of a truck and drive down the road without anyone being the wiser, especially if they were covered by a tarp or something.

That sounds quite plausible to me.

On the prairiechicken blog, it says the bodies were found 70 feet up a steep incline. This makes me wonder if someone threw them down that incline from the top. Curious if there is a road or a trail at the top?

 

[SmoothOperator]

Hard to tell how much room there was from the one photo we have of the truck in situ:

A four-wheeler could maneuver around that site a lot more easily than a full-sized vehicle. If the Jamisons' truck did block the full width of the roadway, then someone in another truck meeting them head on would have to drive several hundred feet in reverse down a curving, muddy road before he could turn around.

I'm beginning to think it's possible that the Jamisons were killed on the mountain that day and their bodies left there, and then someone came back on the 12th, checked the voicemail on Bobby's phone to see if anyone was looking for them yet, and moved the bodies to the location where they were eventually found.

And maybe that person(s) drove four-wheeler(s) that first day, but drove a truck on the 12th, because it would be tough to transport three bodies on a four-wheeler, plus the bodies would be very visible to anyone who saw them driving by. But you could throw bodies in the bed of a truck and drive down the road without anyone being the wiser, especially if they were covered by a tarp or something.

I'm just thinking out loud here. I hadn't seriously considered this scenario before.



Maybe the Jamisons thought they were seeing a friendly face, until it was too late.

Above portion BBM for focus..

IMO I could definitely see this as a legitimate, plausible possibility..jmo.

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

Side-by-side of the passenger side doors. The back door was standing open until 2:18:22, and then it was closed from 2:20:47 through the rest of the pics.

This is what I saw from the first -- that it was just the back passenger door being open versus shut. I think folks were seeing the dark window of the open back door, and the downward camera angle made it appear to "rise above" the open front passenger door. OkieGranny, thank you for posting the images in sequence; it's crystal clear now.

I agree that the man in the olive shirt seems to have on darker/looser jeans than the man in the white shirt. But they have a similar stoop to their shoulders and hair the same length. I think both are Bobby. Maybe he just changed his pants with his shirt.

 

[TooCurious]

I think they edited out the trip to the truck that showed the briefcase/satchel so they could conceal tye description.

 

[OkieGranny]

I read several news reports on the Mcstay case and LE said it will take 23 days to get the test back and that is without putting a rush on it. I thought by Friday, I would like to think they would wrap this up before the Holidays

You're not from around here, are you? :floorlaugh:

Seriously though, our state ME's office has been an ongoing embarrassment for many years.

Deteriorating Oklahoma Medical Examiner facility leaves more than 1,000 families waiting for answers

Oklahoma State Medical Examiner's Office: Timeline of Turmoil

Medical Examiner's Office Fails Accreditation

Positive ID in this case may take a while. Of the six sets of remains pulled from two cars found in Foss Lake on September 17, only one of the missing persons is no longer listed on NamUs. The profiles of the other five are still active.

 

[SmoothOperator]

You're not from around here, are you? :floorlaugh:

Seriously though, our state ME's office has been an ongoing embarrassment for many years.

Deteriorating Oklahoma Medical Examiner facility leaves more than 1,000 families waiting for answers

Oklahoma State Medical Examiner's Office: Timeline of Turmoil

Medical Examiner's Office Fails Accreditation

Positive ID in this case may take a while. Of the six sets of remains pulled from two cars found in Foss Lake on September 17, only one of the missing persons is no longer listed on NamUs. The profiles of the other five are still active.

Good Gawd, Granny.. You would think that the ME's office would atleast put their very best foot forward for such a high media case as was the Foss lake discovery..

To hear that 5 still remain unidentified on NAMUS is just, WoW!

Hey, but in looking at the way this ME office operates.. well, at least it definitely appears as tho, they are not prejudice or partial in any way whatsoever..

 

[OkieGranny]

That sounds quite plausible to me.

On the prairiechicken blog, it says the bodies were found 70 feet up a steep incline. This makes me wonder if someone threw them down that incline from the top. Curious if there is a road or a trail at the top?

The irony of that blog post is that it's based on one of my most embarrassing FAIL posts here on WS.

Looking at the location that was indicated yesterday on a topographical map, there doesn't seem to be much of a slope. It's a relatively flat area.