OK OK - Pauline Amsel, 14, Durant, 11 Nov 1914

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Syl,

I was just reading an article that told of many addresses being changed after murders happened in a home. I would guess that is to throw off curiousity seekers who come to town just to see the house.

In some cases, the street names were actually changed and houses renumbered.
 
Welcome to the forum Melody!

My first reaction is that maybe Pauline was sleeping on the porch to meet her boyfriend and her father caught them and killed her.

Maybe the boyfriend was the intruder?
 
Sdeb, I think your theory, or something very similar to it, is very possible. I just don't think a stranger wandered into the house, found the daughter, and committed such a crime. Of course, anything is possible, but an intruder just doesn't "feel" right for this one.
 
Melody Amsel-Arieli said:
My thanks to all of you for your ideas and speculations. I did not find a coroner's report, a police report, or a death certificate. Relatives on both sides of the family had no pictures of Pauline. Though I located a few group photos in her high school year book, the girls were unidentified.
Through much thought and study, I have come to the conclusion that, considering the nature of the crime--near decapitation with a straight razor, Pauline's murder may have actually been an act of passion. Might this explain how and why no official records were made (kept) ?

It is hard to wrap one's mind around this possibility-- especially in light of the next day's newspaper report, with Jake's explanations and suppositions.

What really happened that night? Did someone in this well-respected and influential family, owners of a successful business, succumb to unspeakable, endurable rage?

Melody Amsel-Arieli
Click to expand...

According to a post by Richard above, Pauline walked to her parent's bedroom, said she was sick and then went to her own bedroom where she died. I don't know the distances between these rooms, but if someone has been nearly decapitated, I don't think they're going to be walking around much?

Is this just a case of misinformation (not directed at you Richard, I've seen that account elsewhere, you were just "providing") or an inconsistency in the story?

PS Good to see you here Melody. Pauline's story is certainly interesting and it's great to get info from someone close to it and researching it so closely.
 
From "Pauline's room" to the back screened porch was the width of:.....a hall way leading to attic stairs: a stairway leading to downstairs, a bedroom about 10-12 feet wide and a bathroom about 5 feet wide.... maybe totaling about 23-25+ feet. The main hall way led down the center of the upstair and ended at the center of the sleeping porch.. Yes, 25 feet is a long way to walk in her condition....and it would probably have been at least 3 more feet to any position her bed could have been in...in that room.

If her parent's were where mine were.....a bigger BR with fireplace and bathroom, their door was directly across the hall way from her door. These 2 bedroom doors were facing each other, not staggered, so it was easy to see (or hear?) someone by your own door.

Did 14 year old girls really get involved to this extent with boys in 1914? I can only imagine it was someone at the store...where else would she be around a boy of another faith very much if she went to a girls school?

Syl
 
AND, , there were 2 steps at the backend of the hallway onto that upstairs sleeping porch!

Syl
 
Syl said:
From "Pauline's room" to the back screened porch was the width of:.....a hall way leading to attic stairs: a stairway leading to downstairs, a bedroom about 10-12 feet wide and a bathroom about 5 feet wide.... maybe totaling about 23-25+ feet. The main hall way led down the center of the upstair and ended at the center of the sleeping porch.. Yes, 25 feet is a long way to walk in her condition....and it would probably have been at least 3 more feet to any position her bed could have been in...in that room.

If her parent's were where mine were.....a bigger BR with fireplace and bathroom, their door was directly across the hall way from her door. These 2 bedroom doors were facing each other, not staggered, so it was easy to see (or hear?) someone by your own door.

Did 14 year old girls really get involved to this extent with boys in 1914? I can only imagine it was someone at the store...where else would she be around a boy of another faith very much if she went to a girls school?

Syl
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Syl. I think all kinds of things happened back then. I found an article from 1924 about a Reverend of a local church who reportedly eloped with a 14-year-old school girl. So I think there are a few different possibilities here.
 
there were like 2 steps up to get into the long hallway....then, the 23-25 feet to her bedroom door. Just doesn't seem possible she could do that.

In answer to someone's comment, the sleeping porches were at the back West...just about 3 car widths from the alley. "Pauline's room" was at the front East. (if you have seen the pic of the house it would be the upper left, second floor.....parent's upper right second floor.) But, who will ever know anything for sure............

Also, the only entrance to that upstairs porch was the long hallway....no outside stairs or other doors to it..

I had told Melody that it was a good place for a Romeo and Juliet scene...looking down to the back yard. I use to stand up there and watch for cars, people on the sidewalk and family members to drive to the garage..
 
LisainWV said:
According to a post by Richard above, Pauline walked to her parent's bedroom, said she was sick and then went to her own bedroom where she died. I don't know the distances between these rooms, but if someone has been nearly decapitated, I don't think they're going to be walking around much?

Is this just a case of misinformation (not directed at you Richard, I've seen that account elsewhere, you were just "providing") or an inconsistency in the story?

PS Good to see you here Melody. Pauline's story is certainly interesting and it's great to get info from someone close to it and researching it so closely.
Click to expand...
I was wondering about that too. Also, someplace it was mentioned "razor cut" to the neck. Why wouldn't the mystery man just use the knife he had w/him? And he used a gun while struggling w/Mr. Amsel, & then had time to pull a small knife?
http://www.durantdemocrat.com/articles/2006/01/21/news/news8.txt
According to the article, the Amsels were awakened by the screams of their daughter who was on the sleeping porch. Mr. Amsel got up to see what was the matter and a scuffle began with the intruder who pulled an automatic pistol and fired it into the floor, telling Mr. Amsel to let him go.
The pistol jammed and the intruder then began to stab Mr. Amsel with a small knife. The scuffle continued for several minutes before the intruder broke free, ran out of the house and down an alley.
 
Do we have nothing but newspaper reports of Mr. Amsel's account? Or, have I missed something?
 
The deep couldn't have been as deep as "near decapitation" if she was able to not only walk down the hall, but then live another 30 minutes before dying. How long can you live once you get a severed artery?
 
Wow, this is an interesting case. I have lots of questions.....

Is it possible that the killer shot in the bedroom, but missed Pauline? If the parents were asleep, then they might have been jarred by it but not awakened.

Is it possible that Pauline was running AWAY from her killer? Her injuries were states as from the throat to the back of the neck on the right side. If she were running away, it may not have been deep and would have been a sharp cut from the pulling itself.

Is it possible that Pauline ran past her father as he ran to the sleeping porch and into her parents' room? Perhaps she ran to the sleeping porch and couldn't get away. A shallow cut could not have bled so quickly as to cause her to pass immediately (the article says she lived about 30 minutes past the attack on her father).

Her family must have expected her to marry not only someone Jewish, but also from their higher social class. I would venture to say that not many Jewish girls went to all-girl Jewish theory schools at the time (or to school at all). Perhaps this was in preparation for her to marry someone who could take over the family business as an heir. Maybe this young man was not of the social class she was, nor Jewish, which made him completely off limits to her.

My opinion is that the family never had her picture made. Perhaps this is a social class thing as well, but didn't many well to do girls have "coming out" parties at 15 or 16 in that day? Perhaps they didn't think it proper to have her picture made (other than a baby picture or something)? Just a guess.

My theory is that the boyfriend killed her after she broke off the relationship (at the parent's demand). It could have been that the boy was after the marriage for money or love, but he was determined that she not be with anyone else. She probably was running away from him (after the shot in Syl's bedroom missed her -- which may have jarred the parents but not woke them up) and he slit her throat on the sleeping porch. The loss of blood caused her to feel "sick", but went unnoticed until it was too late to do anything for her.
 
I wonder about an "Elizabeth Smart" type of attempted abduction. Maybe the intruder was attempting to remove Pauline from the house when she screamed or broke free and had her throat cut?

In one account it says that Pauline's throat was cut with a straight razor, but in the newspaper article the father was said to have been, "stabbed". I wouldn't imagine referring to the use of a straight razor as a "stabbing" so if this is correct, this would indicate to me that the intruder had a gun, a razor and a knife, all ready to use. It's possible, but I'm curious how one could tell that Pauline's throat was cut with a straight razor and not a very sharp knife? I guess the only difference it makes is the motive of passion and intent of bringing so many weapons. Sounds like a rape kit, maybe? I am especially curious about why the intruder would cut Pauline's throat so viciously, but then not shoot the father, but instead shoot into the floor (if that is what happened) and ask the father to "let him go". It would suggest IMO that the intruder may not have been there to intentionally kill anyone but was willing to do this to save himself. With the information given, I would think of an attempted rape and/or abduction rather than burglary.

I would also think that with such a close struggle, the father would have been able to identify the intruder if he knew him well. So the idea of someone that the father was well acquainted with, such as an employee or an undesirable boyfriend seem out of sync. Although, we don't really know how well he knew Pauline's supposed undesirable potential boyfriend.

There were sicko perverts out there 90 years ago, just as there is today. I think Richard suggested a search of criminals who were convicted of similar crimes in and around the area around the same time period. I think this would be a good avenue to explore in seeking responsibility for this crime.

Which brings me to the question someone posed awhile back,that seemed to ask why investigate a murder that occurred so long ago? Yes, the perpetrator is most likely dead and out of the reach of LE and human punishment, but I believe that no one should get away with murder and that no one who is murdered should be forgotten. I am glad that people care about Pauline, even after all this time.
 
I tried to post the house plan and got a message that I had to be on the administrators white list.....help.
 
Syl said:
I tried to post the house plan and got a message that I had to be on the administrators white list.....help.
Click to expand...

Hi Syl,

Do you have an account with an image hosting site such as photobucket? If so, you can upload the picture there, and then post the link to the picture over here. http://photobucket.com/

After you create an account and upload your picture, click in the area under the picture where it says "url link". It should pop up a little message saying "Copied". Then when you are composing a message here on Websleuths, click on the icon that looks like a globe (this is the icon for "insert link"). Paste your link in the box that pops up and click ok. Here's an example from my page: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/ginad42/MissingPieces.gif
 
An X marks the spot where the bullet hole was. It is in the front, southeast BR....supposedly Pauline's room directly across from the logical master bedroom which has FP (fireplace) and B (bathroom). The hole was about 5 feet up from the floor as I remember.

We always took for granted the bullet hole story. I don't know what else would have gone from one side of the wall in the hallway to the other side into the bedroom wall.

The only part of the plan that is off is the width of the long hall way. I think it was more like 4 feet than 5 feet on this scale.

Question: I had alway heard that the Amsels built the house. Does anyone know for sure?
 
I wonder if the show "Haunting Evidence" would look into this case?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 139 more.
Total: 346 (members: 140, guests: 206)

Online statistics

Members online
140
Guests online
206
Total visitors
346
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
609,175
Messages
18,250,424
Members
234,551
Latest member
Psycho_Sally
Back
Top