OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

[ClearAhead]

My theories are one or both: 1. Did not expect anyone else to come find the victim's vehicle as quickly as they did so there was not time to move and dispose of it 2. One of the victims seems to have had a firearm. Whether they managed to use it is not known but it's possible that the perpetrators were not expecting that and things went sideways because of that.

Then there is that 5th person named in the warrant as being involved but not arrested. Maybe this person was shot by one of the victims?

Could be. Total speculation but perhaps the 5th was expected to drive and ditch the vehicle somewhere further away? TA had already set the stage by claiming VB cancelled her plan to pick up her children that day. So then TA might’ve plotted another location where it appeared VB had driven to, a place to be blamed for her disappearance when the vehicle was later discovered abandoned - - if not simply hidden in a barn or quonset. Not that TA’s plots had any substance beyond the wicked thoughts of an evil woman. JMO

 

[Daisyeve]

I read that the accused belonged to an anti-government group God's Misfits, they also believe they are sovereign citizens. I have not been able to find much information on God's Misfits, but for what I found on sovereign citizens they do not believe laws apply to them. This is so sad and reminds me of the Rhoden murders in Ohio. I don't believe the mother ever harmed the children.

It makes you wonder what TA filled those poor children’s heads with. Bless their hearts they will need a wonderful therapist to help get through this horror.

 

[NewMommy09]

I have a special thought that sits deeply in my heart and mind this morning concerning this case. I believe it was @imstilla.grandma who posted the article about Fred Rogers "Look for the helpers". (Still so grateful you did).

Jilian passed away too soon and so tragically. However, I see her as one of the true heroes of this world. She died being a helper. Those self righteous killers couldn't take that glory from her. I hope that helps her children and loved ones hold the light in the darkness.

 

[legomonster]

I'm not sure they were. They had enough people there at the scene to drive the car away if they had wanted to. They knew enough to get burner phones because they knew phones could be tracked, so I think they probably realized cars could be tracked as well. Veronica drove a Kia, so the Kia Connect system could have led LE right to the car if they had taken it. And if they drove it somewhere and ditched it, they'd risk leaving DNA and fingerprints in the car.

They bought prepaid phones which can be tracked/traced same way as a regular cell phones (GPS and/or cellular tower triangulation). They can even look up when they were purchased with their imei and that's probably how they found out she purchased them at a Walmart. And, if they downloaded any third party apps, that's always tracking you.

 

[Hestia's Fire]

They bought prepaid phones which can be tracked/traced same way as a regular cell phones (GPS and/or cellular tower triangulation). They can even look up when they were purchased with their imei and that's probably how they found out she purchased them at a Walmart. And, if they downloaded any third party apps, that's always tracking you.

Right. When I said they "knew enough" to get burner phones, I definitely wasn't implying that they knew very much at all. Their plan was laughably ridiculous. But I think they knew enough not to bring the car onto their own property or try to take it somewhere to dump it.

 

[ClearAhead]

Hi everyone,
I believe TA wanted VB alive so she could force (VB) to sign a document giving up her parental rights, or create a video as proof. Hence, the taser gun. JK as coerced witness. Unfortunately, VB got shot on scene (plus someone else,) and poor Jk was no longer of any use. In court it would come down to VB's family vs Granny Gruesome. Hmm? We know who had the most power in the situation.

Possible, but it’s difficult to predict the thoughts of crazed empowerment. On that line perhaps TA plotted a story claiming VB was depressed and signed over her parental rights to TA knowing she was the best person to raise them, then later VB’s body was to be found as a staged suicide. But then why would TA claim VB cancelled the journey to pick up the children? That doesn’t quite follow.

 

[Gae]

Since everything was so ill-planned with their Keystone Kops approach, maybe a couple of things went awry - not just one? I wonder if Veronica and Jilian actually got farther down the main road than they anticipated happening? I keep thinking that the actual point on the highway where they met up with the roadblock was extremely close to the pre-arranged meet-up place. Too close for comfort. Maybe the original plan was to stop them sooner after they had first left town, but something happened (traffic or whatever) that caused the original roadblock to be moved much farther down the road and really close to the agreed upon meet-up locale. Hope I'm making sense.

 

[KariKae]

Which is incomprehensible. You're in the middle of a pretty lengthy and contentious custody battle and your unfit son's been in prison and then shipped out to rehab, yet you assume no one will suspect you? You didn't think it'd go farther than the standard interview/questioning everyone gets when someone goes missing?

Agree - IMO the anvil plan was actually a lot more solid than this plan they came up with.

Like the previous poster, I also wonder what didn't go according to plan. My guess is the women fought back more than they anticipated. Possibly Jillian was able to access her firearm. They could reasonable know that Veronica didn't carry a weapon. They would have no way of knowing that Jillian did.

 

[Skigh]

Death penalty 'not good enough' for suspects of murdered mum, family say

The bodies of Veronica Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39, from Kansas, were found in rural Texas County in Oklahoma on Sunday near their abandoned vehicle which was covered in blood and next to a broken hammer

www.mirror.co.uk

Katie Dean, Veronica's aunt, exclusively told The Mirror she believes there are "way more than four" involved in the killing of her niece.

She said: "I believe way more than four were involved in these (alleged) murders.

 

[ClearAhead]

Death penalty 'not good enough' for suspects of murdered mum, family say

The bodies of Veronica Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39, from Kansas, were found in rural Texas County in Oklahoma on Sunday near their abandoned vehicle which was covered in blood and next to a broken hammer

www.mirror.co.uk

Katie Dean, Veronica's aunt, exclusively told The Mirror she believes there are "way more than four" involved in the killing of her niece.

She said: "I believe way more than four were involved in these (alleged) murders.

Seems the couple who babysat the children to free up TA to murder just happened to be members of the Misfits also. IMO LE has to looking closely at this group, did each of them play a role and what else is in their past?

BBM

Fifth suspect charged with murder of 2 Kansas moms. What we know

Newly released court documents provide new details about the investigation into the disappearance of two Kansas women who went missing in late March while in Oklahoma.

www.koco.com

“According to the affidavit, the relative described the Adams, Cora and Cole Twombly, Cullum and another man "as being part of an anti-government group that had a religious affiliation" that the OSBI later learned was called "God's Misfits." They held regular meetings weekly at the Twomblys' home and another house.”

Members of self-proclaimed anti-government group ‘God’s Misfits’ held in killings of Kansas women

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Two Kansas women who vanished as they tried to pick up children for a birthday party two weeks ago were killed over a custody dispute involving a group of anti-government Oklah…

fox56news.com

“It wasn’t entirely clear where the children were during the search. Adams told investigators that she had left them in the care of another couple on March 29 and 30; the affidavits said that couple regularly hosted the “God’s Misfits” meetings.”

 

[MollyHarps]

I’m intrigued to know whether the Twombleys were even on Law Enforcements radar prior to the daughter calling them - I doubt they would be at that stage I think they probably at that point just suspected the Gran and her partner.

I really hope the 16 year old daughter has a strong team with her dad & brother around her - she’s probably feeling all kinds of emotions including incredible guilt for doing the right thing.

She honestly is a hero in this case - she’s shown true courage and bravery in what she did.

I hope now that the Twombleys tell the truth so the daughter does not have to go through even more trauma by testifying against them in court.

 

[JackieBrown]

The four suspects decided that Veronica was an unfit mother who deserved to die, and anyone who was a friend of hers deserved to die too - even though Veronica and Jilian were not friends. Jilian was a paid supervisor.

"When the daughter asked what happened, she was told “that things did not go as planned, but that they would not have to worry about her (Butler) again.”

The daughter asked about Kelley and why she had to die “and was told by Cora that she wasn’t innocent either, as she had supported Butler.”

Court Documents: 4 suspects in missing Kansas women case part of anti-government group

Court documents show the details of the investigation that led to the arrest of four suspects in the murders of Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley.

www.newschannel10.com

I haven’t read this link, specifically, but assuming these quotes are attributable to the Twobley’s teenage daughter, who has been quoted in other articles.

*sigh* Another child in the list of victims of this senseless crime. How many children do the Twombley’s have?

 

[Knox]

There is a quote from the affidavit filed in regard to Cora Twombly. CW was interviewed with her brother by the affiant (officer writing the affidavit) and Cora and Cole showed up. They became aggressive and Cole exited the vehicle with a gun in the holster. (page 3 of 7 in affidavit, can't post screen shot file is too big)

ETA: Posted the affidavit quote in post #753. Additionally, CW was interviewed in Texas not Oklahoma so I think the alleged murderers came to another family home to stop the interview.

What I was talking about in my post, happened in the Twombly home and is described in another part of the affidavit. What you are describing is after the brother picked CW up, and when they were in Kerrick being interviewed by LE.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

An affidavit revealed that Butler was going through a nasty divorce and custody battle with her husband Wrangler Cole Rickman

Gang accused of killing two Kansas mothers belong religious group

The four suspects accused of killing two Kansas mother's were part of a antigovernmental religious group called 'God's Misfits.' Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley went missing on March 30.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[MassGuy]

Death penalty 'not good enough' for suspects of murdered mum, family say

The bodies of Veronica Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39, from Kansas, were found in rural Texas County in Oklahoma on Sunday near their abandoned vehicle which was covered in blood and next to a broken hammer

www.mirror.co.uk

Katie Dean, Veronica's aunt, exclusively told The Mirror she believes there are "way more than four" involved in the killing of her niece.

She said: "I believe way more than four were involved in these (alleged) murders.

I think she’s right, but as far as direct involvement, that number appears to be 5.

I think twice that number at least knew about it, or provided logistical assistance.

 

[legomonster]

I’m intrigued to know whether the Twombleys were even on Law Enforcements radar prior to the daughter calling them - I doubt they would be at that stage I think they probably at that point just suspected the Gran and her partner.

I really hope the 16 year old daughter has a strong team with her dad & brother around her - she’s probably feeling all kinds of emotions including incredible guilt for doing the right thing.

She honestly is a hero in this case - she’s shown true courage and bravery in what she did.

I hope now that the Twombleys tell the truth so the daughter does not have to go through even more trauma by testifying against them in court.

I'm sure they were, with how small the town is, how much law enforcement was involved already and probably saw them in passing. They openly talked in front of their children about the plans, I don't think they had a filter at all with most on their dislike of Veronica and even Wrangler. With local law enforcement being so familiar with it they wisely got the state and FBI involved with knowledge it would be multiple suspects and how extensive it could be imo.

 

[AislingGray18]

I think that's probably correct. From what CW told of her parents and the group at large, they seemed to see the world as "us versus them," with "them" being the government. A lot of what is posted on their Facebook pages backs that up.

These fringe groups (not all of them, certainly) risk convincing one another that they need to take action to correct society's wrongs—at least what they think of as wrongs.

I'm reminded of the Montana Freemen and an earlier group called The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA).

God's Misfits (thankfully) never got that far, but I think they were aptly named.

No matter what they call themselves, they're gangs made up of weak individuals who find strength in the collective. To me (MOO), there's not a significant difference between inner-city gangs meting out drive-by justice and this group of misfits convincing one another they had a righteous mission to kill the mother of TA's grandchildren. They did the worst possible thing they could have done.

That's an inherent problem when moral absolutism develops, as it seems to have done here.

My guess is that someone in local LE was aware of this group, and that's why the FBI was brought in so quickly.

The above is all MOO.

I really like the way you phrased this, I have never seen anyone else compare these groups to gangs like I do. I know a few who post and act similar, and ...it is shocking. They won't go to real church or have a real pastor, because they see "turning the other cheek" as being weak, and are looking for something to give them purpose to attack and be hateful
I have even had pastors and deacons tell me they have lost church flock who want them to preach about "fighti9ng the good fight" and rant rage instead of preaching love.

I always liken them to the bloods and crips, and say I refuse to worship either cause neither are any good.

 

[Knox]

That’s a really great catch. Your alibi should be that they never arrived at the pickup location, which is true. They were attacked before they ever reached it.

Saying the pickup was cancelled is easily disproven by the fact that they were very close to where they were supposed to be, as well as the reasons you stated.

That’s an astounding lie to tell, and I can’t make sense of it.

The kids stayed the night with a couple Friday. They weren’t even home, TA picked them up at around noon on Saturday. I think that lie was to cover up the fact she didn’t even have the kids at the time they were supposed to meet.

 

[Eli9]

I'm not sure they were. They had enough people there at the scene to drive the car away if they had wanted to. They knew enough to get burner phones because they knew phones could be tracked, so I think they probably realized cars could be tracked as well. Veronica drove a Kia, so the Kia Connect system could have led LE right to the car if they had taken it. And if they drove it somewhere and ditched it, they'd risk leaving DNA and fingerprints in the car.

Then why would TA claim she spoke to VB and that VB couldn't make the visitation? And why would JK be with her in that area if not for visitation?

 

[Betty P]

Possible, but it’s difficult to predict the thoughts of crazed empowerment. On that line perhaps TA plotted a story claiming VB was depressed and signed over her parental rights to TA knowing she was the best person to raise them, then later VB’s body was to be found as a staged suicide. But then why would TA claim VB cancelled the journey to pick up the children? That doesn’t quite follow.

I'm guessing they operated in some kind of "altered state", possibly using drugs. It will be interesting to see if they were tested for drugs by LE. In that state, their ridiculous plan probably made sense to them.