Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

[VeraVa]

I think they are just taking all precautions.

It may be an issue between Cullum and Twombly. Cullum may be watching his back. Or they may just be eliminating contact between any of the defs. Who knows what could be going on behind the cinder block walls. I’m sure the drama is high.

 

[OldAce]

THANK YOU for the times! I've watched 2-3 times. Since I've never watched a case like this before, I need to ask if this is extraordinary security? And if it is, where is the credible threat?

"The next one's going to be rough" an officer is heard saying between Tad Cullum going in and Cole Twombly exiting. WHY? I didn't notice anything unusual as Cole was escorted out. On the other hand for Tad, the female officer holding the door was there for a very long time before the group came. There were two escorts instead of three out, and when Tad entered, the same clean shaven officer had not accompanied the group inside. When Tad exited, he was very alert looking around, looking hard toward a corner. The clean shaven officer joined the group at the car and opened the door. Tad turned in a peculiar manner to seat himself . . . .

Would they use all this time and manpower just to prevent the defendants from seeing each other or exchanging info?

Are they receiving threats that suggest other Sovereign Citizens will try to break them out? Even if a few SCs own a fleet of helicopters and planes and they decide to shoot it out, isn't Guymon Oklahoma too far inland to even be able to clear American airspace? Maybe the possibility exists for a lot of blood shed, but I don't see a group able to "free" these five, does anyone else?

Is the danger to each of the defendants? That a family member might be so grief-stricken they are willing to risk everything to take out the defendants. If the defs are ever exposed in a public place at the same time, it might be possible to get more than just one. I think this might make the most sense.

Just womdering about the security... Is it a "better safe than sorry" philosophy?

Watch the individual entering and return in the overall view of: Cars drive up, black car in middle, and transfer proceeds. Reverse on exit.
I could not help but look for and notice... Across the parking stop/way...
The roof edge of the Courthouse Annex in the view stands out as a very good spot to rest a rifle and pop your selection in the head at 30 yards.
I am sure LE had taken this into account and access blocked. But; folks, where there is a will, there is a way. As LE, I would be more concerned with a family member dispensing immediate justice than any rag-tag misfit group springing them.

 

[Megnut]

Watch the individual entering and return in the overall view of: Cars drive up, black car in middle, and transfer proceeds. Reverse on exit.
I could not help but look for and notice... Across the parking stop/way...
The roof edge of the Courthouse Annex in the view stands out as a very good spot to rest a rifle and pop your selection in the head at 30 yards.
I am sure LE had taken this into account and access blocked. But; folks, where there is a will, there is a way. As LE, I would be more concerned with a family member dispensing immediate justice than any rag-tag misfit group springing them.

If you thought of it, chances are good LE did too and may have taken up real estate on a perch such as that with a sharp shooter of their own.

I think they're taking no chances.

JMO

 

[Error505]

I’ve noticed the Texas Sheriff Dept has a drone in the air as well. I think they’re being very cautious. I’m glad, justice needs to come by way of a courtroom and a jury!
MOO
EBM typo

 

[Megnut]

I’ve noticed the Texas Sheriff Dept has a drone in the air as well. I think they’re being very cautious. I’m glad, justice needs to come by way of a courtroom and a jury!
MOO
EBM typo

Reminiscent of the caravan of armored vehicles to execute the search warrants.

Every caution...

 

[CuriousCricket]

Reminiscent of the caravan of armored vehicles to execute the search warrants.

Every caution...

I've liked this sheriff ever since I heard his first interview following the arrests.

 

[CuriousCricket]

It may be an issue between Cullum and Twombly. Cullum may be watching his back. Or they may just be eliminating contact between any of the defs. Who knows what could be going on behind the cinder block walls. I’m sure the drama is high.

With Zoom being used so much, I'm wondering if the courts could not set up separate locations for each def and their set of attorneys for each of the hearings. That way everyone can hear, see and participate without exposing the defendants and LE to outside danger.

 

[Cool Cats]

THANK YOU for the times! I've watched 2-3 times. Since I've never watched a case like this before, I need to ask if this is extraordinary security? And if it is, where is the credible threat?

"The next one's going to be rough" an officer is heard saying between Tad Cullum going in and Cole Twombly exiting. WHY? I didn't notice anything unusual as Cole was escorted out. On the other hand for Tad, the female officer holding the door was there for a very long time before the group came. There were two escorts instead of three out, and when Tad entered, the same clean shaven officer had not accompanied the group inside. When Tad exited, he was very alert looking around, looking hard toward a corner. The clean shaven officer joined the group at the car and opened the door. Tad turned in a peculiar manner to seat himself . . . .

Would they use all this time and manpower just to prevent the defendants from seeing each other or exchanging info?

Are they receiving threats that suggest other Sovereign Citizens will try to break them out? Even if a few SCs own a fleet of helicopters and planes and they decide to shoot it out, isn't Guymon Oklahoma too far inland to even be able to clear American airspace? Maybe the possibility exists for a lot of blood shed, but I don't see a group able to "free" these five, does anyone else?

Is the danger to each of the defendants? That a family member might be so grief-stricken they are willing to risk everything to take out the defendants. If the defs are ever exposed in a public place at the same time, it might be possible to get more than just one. I think this might make the most sense.

Just womdering about the security... Is it a "better safe than sorry" philosophy?

I learned from other DP cases ... 2 Cents ... that this is normal security. Note the bullet proof vests, this is also normal security. LE cannot take the chance of an angry person shooting and killing a defendant, or a group trying to "break out" a defendant.

And the general public needs to see a show of force to feel safe from killers walking in their public spaces. Yes, they get death threats....in my opinion.

And in their Bond Hearing:

"...the hearing was very emotional, with Butler's father yelling obscenities about the suspects in court to the point where he had to be held back...."

And in the Motion to Hold Without Bond it says, and explains why:

No Condition Of Release Would Protect The Community - see attachment

https://www.scribd.com/document/724732666/T-Adams-CF-24-72-Mtn-to-Hold#from_embed

 

[ajksmom]

MOO I think part of the process LE is using to bring one defendant at a time also ensures they aren’t able to communicate with each other.
According to link below they’ve arranged for them to not be able to communicate at the jail they’re housed at.

Exclusive: Kansas moms murder suspects kept apart in jail

No visitors are allowed except for attorneys and spiritual advisers.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[Cool Cats]

MOO I think part of the process LE is using to bring one defendant at a time also ensures they aren’t able to communicate with each other.
According to link below they’ve arranged for them to not be able to communicate at the jail they’re housed at.

Exclusive: Kansas moms murder suspects kept apart in jail

No visitors are allowed except for attorneys and spiritual advisers.

www.newsnationnow.com

Then LE would need to have the 4 defendant's attorney's sitting inbetween them at the defense table.

Does anyone know if there are any videos or photos of them in court at their hearings?

 

[Error505]

Then LE would need to have the 4 defendant's attorney's sitting inbetween them at the defense table.

Does anyone know if there are any videos or photos of them in court at their hearings?

I’ve not seen one single photo of them in court! I’ve got a pic of what the courtroom looks like, but not with defendants present! I’m disappointed there’s not at least one reporter allowed to tweet the proceedings at least. I’m hoping that someone in the National media will step up and try to get cameras in the courtroom.
MOO

 

[Artis]

Then LE would need to have the 4 defendant's attorney's sitting inbetween them at the defense table.

Does anyone know if there are any videos or photos of them in court at their hearings?

Five defendants.

 

[OldAce]

Reminiscent of the caravan of armored vehicles to execute the search warrants.

Every caution...

There is no such thing as enough armor, unless you do not go...

 

[Error505]

How wonderfully fun. Hope they were. Maybe Tad was wondering where all his groupies were and whether he's off the front pages across the country. To me, he had an alert, looking for someone attitude that seemed different from the others.

I've wondered who was allowed inside the courthouse and courtroom. Did any of them have family present?

BBM I noticed your question of who was allowed in the courthouse and courtroom was never answered, thought I would see if I can do that. Anyone could attend, only prerequisite was no cell phones or cameras and you had to go through LE’s security check prior to entering. No one was allowed to enter after the hearing started, nor exit until it was completed.
As far as family, I’m unsure if any defendants had family present. There were family members of Jilian’s and Veronica’s present. That’s the most I can add.
MOO

 

[vls12345]

Grice believes his kids are his property and probably thought he was helping Adams keep her "property."

Paul Grice Quote:

“I am a free and natural man, described by the Lord God in Genesis 2:7 as a living soul, living under God’s law and his grace alone,” the document continued.

“I claim my children,” it reads, listing their names and birthdates, as he adds they are his “God-given property and subject to none other.”

Revealed: Extremist views of latest ‘God’s Misfits’ murder suspect

Paul Grice, 31, and four others have been charged in the murders of two women who police believed were lured to their deaths during a pre-arranged child custody visit

www.independent.co.uk

It continued with, “there is a maximum law that says ‘what one creates one controls’: the government did not create my children and therefore does not control my children. God created my children in their mother’s womb with my sperm and are my creation, my property, and I waive none of my God-given rights or duties in the upbringing of my offspring.”

I'm sure Grice has the warm fuzzies at the parallel of him and his pals being the property of the State of OK jail system these days.

 

[Cool Cats]

THANK YOU for the times! I've watched 2-3 times. Since I've never watched a case like this before, I need to ask if this is extraordinary security? And if it is, where is the credible threat?

"The next one's going to be rough" an officer is heard saying between Tad Cullum going in and Cole Twombly exiting. WHY? I didn't notice anything unusual as Cole was escorted out. On the other hand for Tad, the female officer holding the door was there for a very long time before the group came. There were two escorts instead of three out, and when Tad entered, the same clean shaven officer had not accompanied the group inside. When Tad exited, he was very alert looking around, looking hard toward a corner. The clean shaven officer joined the group at the car and opened the door. Tad turned in a peculiar manner to seat himself . . . .

Would they use all this time and manpower just to prevent the defendants from seeing each other or exchanging info?

Are they receiving threats that suggest other Sovereign Citizens will try to break them out? Even if a few SCs own a fleet of helicopters and planes and they decide to shoot it out, isn't Guymon Oklahoma too far inland to even be able to clear American airspace? Maybe the possibility exists for a lot of blood shed, but I don't see a group able to "free" these five, does anyone else?

Is the danger to each of the defendants? That a family member might be so grief-stricken they are willing to risk everything to take out the defendants. If the defs are ever exposed in a public place at the same time, it might be possible to get more than just one. I think this might make the most sense.

Just womdering about the security... Is it a "better safe than sorry" philosophy?

I ran across this, it explains the LE presence and it includes drones and sharp shooters on rooftops.

Even for law enforcement, the case is hitting close to home. Law enforcement were seen hugging emotional family members.
“We’re not robots, we are human beings and we have emotions,” said Sheriff Matt Boley, Texas County Sheriff’s Department.

He also addressed the heavy police presence.

Extra precaution was taken as the prisoners made their way in and out of the courthouse.
Officers were seen on the courthouse roof, as well as drones flying in the area sweeping through other buildings and areas.

The Sheriff says they didn’t know what to expect and what they were dealing with.

He says these precautions will remain in place during any court proceedings pertaining to these murders until further notice.

‘How can you hate somebody so much’: 4 suspects linked to Kansas women’s murders appear in court​

MSN

 

[Error505]

I ran across this, it explains the LE presence and it includes drones and sharp shooters on rooftops.

Even for law enforcement, the case is hitting close to home. Law enforcement were seen hugging emotional family members.
“We’re not robots, we are human beings and we have emotions,” said Sheriff Matt Boley, Texas County Sheriff’s Department.

He also addressed the heavy police presence.

Extra precaution was taken as the prisoners made their way in and out of the courthouse.
Officers were seen on the courthouse roof, as well as drones flying in the area sweeping through other buildings and areas.

The Sheriff says they didn’t know what to expect and what they were dealing with.

He says these precautions will remain in place during any court proceedings pertaining to these murders until further notice.

‘How can you hate somebody so much’: 4 suspects linked to Kansas women’s murders appear in court​

MSN

Great article, really showcases Sheriff Matt Boley of TX County Sheriff’s Dept. He’s the one who knew enough to contact OSBI right away the day the mommas “disappeared”.
Thank you @Cool Cats for posting. I’d watched this before, but it’s a quick, great vid!
MOO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation revealed in new court records that a chest freezer was found during the excavation and opened.

Grisly new details emerge from Oklahoma Panhandle double-murder investigation

New details are contained in search warrant records filed at the Texas County courthouse. A judge refused to seal the records from the public.

www.aol.com

 

[Muddy K]

The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation revealed in new court records that a chest freezer was found during the excavation and opened.

Grisly new details emerge from Oklahoma Panhandle double-murder investigation

New details are contained in search warrant records filed at the Texas County courthouse. A judge refused to seal the records from the public.

www.aol.com

Everything, and so much more. Those poor, poor women and their families.

 

[PommyMommy]

The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation revealed in new court records that a chest freezer was found during the excavation and opened.

Grisly new details emerge from Oklahoma Panhandle double-murder investigation

New details are contained in search warrant records filed at the Texas County courthouse. A judge refused to seal the records from the public.

www.aol.com

As if it could get any worse.

Noting:

The OSBI also revealed in the new court records that "personal items" were located in the hole after the bodies were removed. "These items did not belong to Butler or Kelley," an OSBI agent wrote. "This information was not released to the public."

Seized as evidence at the burial site were Wrangler blue jeans, sweatshirts, T-shirts, a black jacket, cloth gloves, ball caps, duct tape and and a sheathed black KA-BAR knife, the new records reveal. All were described as "with possible blood."

Also seized were a black saw handle, two ratchet straps, a "black taser/flashlight" and "electrical cord and small black tape."