Omaha double murder

[Knox]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2329707&pp=25

For the newer members; The link above contains all the posts for this case in the Forensic Astro thread. Start at the bottom of Page 2 and work your way forward. As WM said, the Astro's have an amazing record of accuracy and who knows maybe one of you new poster's will see something many of us have overlooked. If you do not understand some of the terminology Tuba uses ask for translations here on this thread. Happy Reading

 

[Snick1946]

Some weeks ago, one of our posters stated that the answer to this mystery is probably right in front of us only we don't see it.
I was reading some of the other threads today. I note the case of the doctor in West Memphis who was injured in a car bombing that now looks to have been reprisal for a decision he made while serving on a state medical board- I believe it involved disciplinary action against another docter.
I wonder- did Dr Hunter ever serve on such a board in Nebraska? It may be easy to find out.
The crime to me suggests that someone with medical knowledge may have been the perp. Possibly a new idea that may be worth looking at.

 

[po boy]

This may be coming from way out in left field, but I wonder if the killer was trying to frame Dr. Hunter.

I mean it might make sense, the knives used were from the home. The knives may have even had Dr. Hunter's fingerprints on them since he may have used them the day before to cook. And the precision with which the murders were carried out may have been purposely made to look like whomever committed the murders had used knives before and dissected bodies before. I would estimate Dr. Hunter has performed well over 1,000 autopsies in his career.

It also seems to me that whoever did this had precise knowledge of anatomy and forensics to be so precise with the neck wounds and leave no evidence.

From what I've heard, pathologists can be on the whole a strange breed, and I'm sure Dr. Hunter has worked with hundreds of them over his lifetime. Maybe one of them had a rift with him?

Just a thought........I'm growing frustrated and think this case will never be solved and am trying to stop thinking about it.

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

Interesting thought, Po Boy. Could even be something as simple as Dr. Hunter making a comment to someone who took it the wrong way...or the perp heard from a peer that Dr. Hunter was talking about him and the perp went off the deep end...
Snick, I tried searching for Dr. Hunter's past but couldn't find anything about him serving on the State Medical Board...however, I'm not very good at the deep digging stuff. I find the theory an interesting one, though.

 

[Snick1946]

In my view, in order for someone to attempt to frame Dr H for this thing, they'd have to be reasonably sure he could have been there at the time of the killings. My understanding is that his time was accounted for pretty much all that day. I am assuming the forensic people were able to establish that the murders took place a couple hours before the bodies were found.
The thing about the knives keeps eating at me- if they were from the home could the killer have used them to throw off LE into thinking it was a home invasion thing?

 

[YellowDog]

This may be coming from way out in left field, but I wonder if the killer was trying to frame Dr. Hunter.

I mean it might make sense, the knives used were from the home. The knives may have even had Dr. Hunter's fingerprints on them since he may have used them the day before to cook. And the precision with which the murders were carried out may have been purposely made to look like whomever committed the murders had used knives before and dissected bodies before. I would estimate Dr. Hunter has performed well over 1,000 autopsies in his career.

It also seems to me that whoever did this had precise knowledge of anatomy and forensics to be so precise with the neck wounds and leave no evidence.

From what I've heard, pathologists can be on the whole a strange breed, and I'm sure Dr. Hunter has worked with hundreds of them over his lifetime. Maybe one of them had a rift with him?

Just a thought........I'm growing frustrated and think this case will never be solved and am trying to stop thinking about it.

Hi Po Boy:

Can you offer a link which states for a fact that these knives came from the home? And where did you get information that whoever did these murders had precise knowledge of anatomy and forensics? Are you saying the bodies were dissected? I'm just trying to figure out whether these statements are fact or supposition.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

In my view, in order for someone to attempt to frame Dr H for this thing, they'd have to be reasonably sure he could have been there at the time of the killings. My understanding is that his time was accounted for pretty much all that day. I am assuming the forensic people were able to establish that the murders took place a couple hours before the bodies were found.
The thing about the knives keeps eating at me- if they were from the home could the killer have used them to throw off LE into thinking it was a home invasion thing?

A thought came to me when reading the frame theory. If the perp worked with Dr. H. the year or two prior to the murders, He could have assumed he knew Dr. H's schedule based on his schedule while the perp worked with him.

Tom would have been in elementary school the prior year, right? Perhaps Dr. H's schedule was different at that time and he picked Tom up at Elementary school. When Tom moved up to Middle school, he began to ride the bus as Dr. H's class schedule had changed as well, rendering him unable to pick up Tom after school. IDK about Omaha but the schools here dismiss the elementary students 1 hour before the middle and high schools.

Have there been any reports of the probable time the murders were actually committed?

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Interesting thought, Po Boy. Could even be something as simple as Dr. Hunter making a comment to someone who took it the wrong way...or the perp heard from a peer that Dr. Hunter was talking about him and the perp went off the deep end...
Snick, I tried searching for Dr. Hunter's past but couldn't find anything about him serving on the State Medical Board...however, I'm not very good at the deep digging stuff. I find the theory an interesting one, though.

LOL, I'm not good at it either TMOIA! Keep it up 'cause you never know what you may learn! Give me a shout out and point me in a direction if you need any help.

This is for you my friend:clap:

wm

 

[po boy]

Hi Po Boy:

Can you offer a link which states for a fact that these knives came from the home? And where did you get information that whoever did these murders had precise knowledge of anatomy and forensics? Are you saying the bodies were dissected? I'm just trying to figure out whether these statements are fact or supposition.

Yellow Dog,

I'm assuming Moonlighter has good enough sources to believe him/her in saying the knives were from the home.

I think the killer had precise knowledge of anatomy because it sounds like both wounds were the same (neck) and he escaped with presumably little blood on him, making me think he knew how to lodge the knife in the neck just right to tamponade off the carotid artery to prevent as little bleeding as possible.

Let me also say it would not take a genious to do this, as the carotids are just big thick hollow "rubber bands" that run up the neck.

No I don't think the bodies were dissected. This just seems to me a stabbing done by someone who had a plan and knew exactly where to strike on the body!

 

[YellowDog]

Could it be a jealous colleague who got passed over for a promotion that one of the Hunters ended up getting?

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

Here's a link to the Nebraska DHHS board of Medicine and Surgery's minutes from their meetings: http://www.hhs.state.ne.us/crl/brdminutes.htm#Medical

So far, I have only read the minutes closest to the murder date. February I believe. Unfortunately, they don't disclose the "Investigational Report" minutes but there are a few sections about people who have been on disciplinary actions and are re-applying for licenses. Probably nothing here, but nevertheless, worth checking out.

 

[YellowDog]

Yellow Dog,

I'm assuming Moonlighter has good enough sources to believe him/her in saying the knives were from the home.

I think the killer had precise knowledge of anatomy because it sounds like both wounds were the same (neck) and he escaped with presumably little blood on him, making me think he knew how to lodge the knife in the neck just right to tamponade off the carotid artery to prevent as little bleeding as possible.

Let me also say it would not take a genious to do this, as the carotids are just big thick hollow "rubber bands" that run up the neck.

No I don't think the bodies were dissected. This just seems to me a stabbing done by someone who had a plan and knew exactly where to strike on the body!

If the killer did have precise knowledge of anatomy, it would definitely make me think of someone in the medical profession or the funeral profession. Isn't the carotid artery used to drain blood from the corpse during the embalming procedure?

Also, if the killer was the man in the black topcoat, blood would not show up very clearly on that garment so he could still have had quite a bid of blood on him. That could be precisely why he wore this long overcoat with the intention of dumping it soon after the crime. This long coat also makes me think of someone in the medical profession because of the fact that most of them wear long lab coats to protect their personal clothing.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I had not thought about the long coat having a purpose like this but it makes alot of sense. It makes me think the perp went there with the purpose of committing murder as opposed to a random crime.

Good observation YD!

 

[YellowDog]

The more I think about it, the more I'm wonder just how much contact Dr. Hunter would have had with funeral directors in the area. Would he have had anything to do with their testing before they passed the state board for licensing?

 

[Snick1946]

The more I think about it, the more I'm wonder just how much contact Dr. Hunter would have had with funeral directors in the area. Would he have had anything to do with their testing before they passed the state board for licensing?

I've been searching on that angle. So far cannot find much, there is a state board of embalmers, etc but no way to go back and search past years for board membership etc. Interesting idea, however.
My thinking has settled into the following: Thomas was the target and this was a professional hit. Once you go there I think two possibilities are open. Either this was revenge for something that happened in the past during medical practice. In that case it'd be Claire Hunter's past patients we'd need to be looking at. By virtue of his being a Pathologist Dr Hunter would be less likely to have had patients.
Or, it was retaliation by a jealous collegue, an angry ex student or possibly a former relationship partner. These cover a lot of ground- I have lost some of my impatience with LE, this must be daunting to run through all of this.
The fact that so little evidence was apparently left behind leads me away from this being a casual intruder. From what little I know, hit men sometimes will use a weapon from the victim, just to confound LE.
One other thought- assuming this was a hit, this sort of thing doesn't come cheap. A middle class survivor of a supposed medical misadventure couldn't have afforded this. Nor could an ex medical student. A medical collegue could have. Or some wealthy person with much to lose if something came out.

 

[KAE]

Hello, I'm still relatively new to WS and have been spending all my time on another case, but have decided to look at some other ones as well.
I have gone through the whole thread and find it fascinating. I started on the first page and was hoping there would be some kind of answer at the end - but I see that hasn't happened - yet.

One of the things that brought me to WS is my use of Google Earth. I have always enjoyed finding the locations of places in the news. Getting a sense of location makes the stories seem more real to me.

Back in post #403 waltzingmatilda suggested using Google maps to find the location of the house:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3840411&postcount=403"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Omaha double murder[/ame]


I think I found the location, but am hesitant to post anything. There may be reasons this hasn't been done that I'm unaware of, or I may offend someone by doing so. If you think it's a bad idea, or a good one - let me know.

I'm sure you guys will get to the bottom of this. Both families, as well as the community need some kind of closure in all this.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Dear KAE,

Welcome to the thread and thank you for your offer to post the maps. I would love for you to post the maps. I know that google maps have been posted in other case threads so it shouldn't be a problem.

Also, maps of the Creighton area and the Area of Tom's school would be great if you're willing to post them. I am a visual person and always find these maps helpful. Thanks for your kind offer. And please continue to post here.....new opinions and insights are always welcome. We have some great sleuths here. :~)

wm

 

[YellowDog]

The way these stabbings were done leads me to believe the killer was actually the person who was angered or felt wronged and were done by someone proficient in a medically connected field who was comfortable with knives and cutting and knew how to minimize the bleeding.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

The way these stabbings were done leads me to believe the killer was actually the person who was angered or felt wronged and were done by someone proficient in a medically connected field who was comfortable with knives and cutting and knew how to minimize the bleeding.

YD,
I was looking over Tuba's charts on this case a few days ago and your post brought to mind the chart she cast for 3-7-08. I am respectfully quoting Tuba by my best recollection..

Tuba stated 3-7-08 was a new moon and the 'plan' was hatched around this time. "There was a revolt over how authorities manage affairs and a different arrangement is demanded. New solutions are needed as security is under threat."

"Something was going on at the hospital...a possible rejection."

Then she asks, "Who had an inferiority complex that perceived insult for the final time and took revenge?'

"This date brought career elevation and travel for the moon (Tom). An opportunity was knocked from his grasp. Tom's science award would also have provided the opportunity for him to broadcast a 'startling truth'."

I have a hunch that 'security under threat' at the hospital and Tom's 'startling truth' bears a connection. I believe it could be possible that Tom attended work at times with Dr.W Hunter. Perhaps he was working on a science project in a 'lab setting' at Creighton and observed or learned something he shouldn't have.

Now what kinds of things could an eleven year old learn that would lead to a hired hit being taken out on him? I think the answers lie within the walls of Creighton.

All JMO, as usual.

wm

 

[YellowDog]

Could they have been doing illegal "stem cell" work in the lab and Tom found out about it?