OR - Angelica Swartout charged in death of newborn, Springfield, 18 Oct 2010

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I dont wanna try and figure out her mental issues. She doesnt have to have any ,lot of criminals dont. It could be she just didnt want a baby or to be hassled with adopting one out.

If she has mental issue, I dont think they would be of a nature where she couldnt of resisted the urge to murder. She had that desire and put some thought into it and made the choice.

It also sounds like 1st degree. (unless there is no baby and that photo is of a twin sister who was pregant which I doubt) I hope her trial doesnt turn into a huge question about if she was pregnant or not. I hope there is proof somewhere .
 
That picture certainly looks real to me! I think she was pregnant. jmo
 
Yes she does look pregnant. This may sound strange but there are some women that believe they are pregnant and even their stomachs grow, but at the end there really is no baby, its all mental. JMO
 
JeannieC said:
That picture certainly looks real to me! I think she was pregnant. jmo
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If she wasn't she sure did a good job faking it!

If the whole pregnancy was a lie and she felt cornered when her family pressed for a memorial/funeral, why make up a lie detailing giving birth and murdering the baby? Why not say I gave the baby up for adoption or just come clean that the pregnancy was a lie, case closed? This whole thing makes so little sense.

No blood in a bathroom that was cleaned repeatedly over several months does not mean she was not pregnant.
 
False pregnancy occurs in humans and in animals and almost always has an emotional component. I didn't realize that dogs can do this when they are grieving the loss of puppies.

But IF it was false, why admit to murder rather to subterfuge? Unless, it was murder.
 
Angelica worked so I doubt that she received a medical card--unless she gets SSI for some form of disability. Our daughter gets SSI and works 10 hours each week at a pizza restaurant, refilling water pitchers and sugar shakers. If she didn't have a medical card and worked at minimum wage, she would automatically qualify for a card during her pregnancy. This was enacted to make certain all pregnant women have access to prenatal care. She might have lied to her sisters about going to the doctor but one would think that she might have seen a doctor at least once.....unless she was using and didn't want that to show up in her blood tests.
 
On the tape, Springfield Police Det. George Crolly repeatedly suggested that Swartout killed the son she’d named Lucias Scott to spare him the pain of methamphetamine withdrawal and life with a drug-using single mother. After about 15 minutes, a sobbing Swartout said the child “squeaked a little bit” and “gave a little gasp but he did not cry” before she “wrapped him up really tight in a sheet” to the point that he couldn’t breathe. She said she placed his body in a hotel Dumpster
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http://special.registerguard.com/we.../swartout-angelica-baby-judge-police.html.csp
 
Missizzy said:
False pregnancy occurs in humans and in animals and almost always has an emotional component. I didn't realize that dogs can do this when they are grieving the loss of puppies.

But IF it was false, why admit to murder rather to subterfuge? Unless, it was murder.
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It's a known fact that people do confess falsely. If police officer interviewing her was insisting she killed the baby she could have gone alone with it. Since there appears to be no physical evidence she was ever pregnant let alone killed this baby, that's reasonable doubt right there.
 
JeannieC said:
http://special.registerguard.com/we.../swartout-angelica-baby-judge-police.html.csp
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OK I'm now more confused than ever. That picture did a good job of making her look pregnant but the story at the link says otherwise: “In fact, we have evidence that she was not (pregnant),” Oldencamp said. She cited a doctor’s Thursday morning testimony that Swartout had a negative pregnancy test at a local Planned Parenthood clinic in late March 2010, when the alleged murder victim would have been a third-month fetus if born full-term in October.

Under questioning by Oldencamp, the Springfield detectives acknowledged that Angelica Swartout told a friend in Longview, Wash., that she’d had an abortion in late May or early June. They also acknowledged that Swartout’s motel co-workers reported that she had not been obviously pregnant.

Sward and Lillian Swartout also received text messages from Angelica Swartout on Oct. 18, telling them doctors found no heartbeat for her baby when she went to Sacred Heart Medical Center at RiverBend to deliver the child. The sisters said Angelica Swartout later texted them that Lucias was born dead about 5 p.m. due to a condition known as placental abruption.

“I will always love her,” Sward said. “But Lucias was also my nephew. Just because we haven’t recovered a body doesn’t make him any less of a person.”

Her family (at the time of this hearing in June) still believed she delivered a baby in Oct.
 
LCoastMom said:
OK I'm now more confused than ever. That picture did a good job of making her look pregnant but the story at the link says otherwise: “In fact, we have evidence that she was not (pregnant),” Oldencamp said. She cited a doctor’s Thursday morning testimony that Swartout had a negative pregnancy test at a local Planned Parenthood clinic in late March 2010, when the alleged murder victim would have been a third-month fetus if born full-term in October.

Under questioning by Oldencamp, the Springfield detectives acknowledged that Angelica Swartout told a friend in Longview, Wash., that she’d had an abortion in late May or early June. They also acknowledged that Swartout’s motel co-workers reported that she had not been obviously pregnant.

Sward and Lillian Swartout also received text messages from Angelica Swartout on Oct. 18, telling them doctors found no heartbeat for her baby when she went to Sacred Heart Medical Center at RiverBend to deliver the child. The sisters said Angelica Swartout later texted them that Lucias was born dead about 5 p.m. due to a condition known as placental abruption.

“I will always love her,” Sward said. “But Lucias was also my nephew. Just because we haven’t recovered a body doesn’t make him any less of a person.”

Her family (at the time of this hearing in June) still believed she delivered a baby in Oct.
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WOW! Talk about a ball of confusion! Did I read that she was a twin or am I confused........:floorlaugh:

If so, could the pregnant woman be her twin sister or did she have/not have a baby too.

This whole thing is enough to make your head spin. I feel so for the family. Imagine how they are feeling!
 
Does she have any children? Couldn't a doctor examine her and tell if she has had a baby or not? Why didn't the examine her as soon as this occurred?

If she has a twin, the twin could have had the pregnancy test.

This whole thing sounds like a lie that got out of hand. jmo
 
JeannieC said:
Does she have any children? Couldn't a doctor examine her and tell if she has had a baby or not? Why didn't the examine her as soon as this occurred?

If she has a twin, the twin could have had the pregnancy test.

This whole thing sounds like a lie that got out of hand. jmo
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I never read anything about her having a twin, just lot's of sisters (I could have missed it).

I've read that:

She had a positive pregnancy test in January.

A negative pregnancy test in March.

She claimed (according to a friend) to have an abortion May/June-ish.

Photo of her looking very pregnant.

Sister said she saw and felt baby move days before "birth" (in October).

Coworkers said she never looked pregnant.

Family said she wasn't excited about baby until late pregnancy.

Called and texted family about induced birth (fetal demise) Oct 18 due to placenta abruption. Went home same day. (Had she been pregnant/had an abruption she would not have been induced for birth, this is a medical emergency usually requiring an emergency c/sec unless birth is eminent. Life threatening for mother and baby due to blood loss.)

Showed picture captured online of deceased infant.

Family called LE in December when they could find no record of birth/death at hospital or ME's office.

Told LE story of giving birth in office restroom/smothered with dirty sheet/placed in dumpster. Said baby gasped but never cried. (This would have been in October) LE searched landfill in December.

Researched medical conditions of pregnancy months prior to "due date".

An exam performed in December would not have told doctors whether she'd ever given birth if there was no trauma during delivery.

Lawyers now say no blood residue in office restroom (examined months after event) means no birth happened there.
 
I don't know if she had the baby or not, but she sure convinced her family she did, considering they called LE after she told them the baby died.
But was there a baby? I am not convinced at all. She could have been making the pregnancy up for attention (some women are known to do that). When it was time to produce the baby she could have told them the baby died because obviously she could not produce the baby (at least she didn't go around stealing one like some women pretending to be pregnant are known to do). As for why she didn't tell family she gave up the baby for adoption-they probably wouldn't have approve, so it was easier to say he was dead.
 
jjenny said:
I don't know if she had the baby or not, but she sure convinced her family she did, considering they called LE after she told them the baby died.
But was there a baby? I am not convinced at all. She could have been making the pregnancy up for attention (some women are known to do that). When it was time to produce the baby she could have told them the baby died because obviously she could not produce the baby (at least she didn't go around stealing one like some women pretending to be pregnant are known to do). As for why she didn't tell family she gave up the baby for adoption-they probably wouldn't have approve, so it was easier to say he was dead.
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She probably never imagined her family would turn her in. moo
 
LCoastMom said:
I never read anything about her having a twin, just lot's of sisters (I could have missed it).

I've read that:

She had a positive pregnancy test in January.

A negative pregnancy test in March.

She claimed (according to a friend) to have an abortion May/June-ish.

Photo of her looking very pregnant.

Sister said she saw and felt baby move days before "birth" (in October).

Coworkers said she never looked pregnant.

Family said she wasn't excited about baby until late pregnancy.

Called and texted family about induced birth (fetal demise) Oct 18 due to placenta abruption. Went home same day. (Had she been pregnant/had an abruption she would not have been induced for birth, this is a medical emergency usually requiring an emergency c/sec unless birth is eminent. Life threatening for mother and baby due to blood loss.)

Showed picture captured online of deceased infant.

Family called LE in December when they could find no record of birth/death at hospital or ME's office.

Told LE story of giving birth in office restroom/smothered with dirty sheet/placed in dumpster. Said baby gasped but never cried. (This would have been in October) LE searched landfill in December.

Researched medical conditions of pregnancy months prior to "due date".

An exam performed in December would not have told doctors whether she'd ever given birth if there was no trauma during delivery.

Lawyers now say no blood residue in office restroom (examined months after event) means no birth happened there.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I don't know where I got that she had a twin but I'm sure I'm confused. Probably just a sister. She had a lot of those!

I don't think they will ever figure this out and someone is bound to write a book about it!
 
Jeannie--I have to disagree with you about her family turning her in. This family is well-respected and known in adoption and social work circles. You don't get that way without following the "rules". I'm all but certain that Angelica thought she had hoodwinked her family. She would know that they'd do whatever they could to help that child. Death was the only place where they couldn't reach him.

I'm wondering if there could be some darker pathology here. The young woman is adopted and we have no idea about her birth history. She could be developing an inherited mental illness or could have the challenges of prenatal drug and/or alcohol exposure. She might well have wanted attention and she also might have replayed some of her own life experiences with either a real child or a phantom one.

"He's mine and I'll do what I wish. No one can stop me. I gave birth to him and I can also kill him. I'm in control."

I could be all wet but I've seen some of these twisted emotions with children who have suffered from loss and separation issues.
 
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