OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #13

[DairyGirl]

I agree with this. It is so scary to think that online friends could be SO or every harm our children. But the internet allows everyone to be a bit anonymous.

I know that she had 500+ friends I wonder how many were on her friend list prior to june 4th.

I think she had about 250 or so right around the time that Kyron went missing. I know that she was adding people right and left as the week wore on before she made it private. I kind of noted that.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I have just a few thoughts today -

FWIW: The teacher and "marking him absent". The rumor we've heard from the other child saying a "sub" noticed Kyron not there and then the teacher saying "oh, he must be in the bathroom" then the sub left. I have taught in different states and while the method of taking attendance may have differed - one thing didn't. The teacher of record turned in the attendance and at the end of the year we had to physically sign the attendance for each child for the year. With that, I think the "sub" was only taking attendance for the group tour, not the "official" attendance for the day. The regular teacher did that - probably sometime later. I agree with the other poster/teacher that if Kyron hadn't materialized since the "sub" noticed he was gone - I would have been on it like a shot. But yet the teacher wasn't - or maybe it just took a simple call to the office and she was told "not to worry". ITA that because this teacher has not been removed - what she did is probably verified and justified.

Also FWIW - by the time this is all over - I don't think there will be a lawsuit against the school or the district.

As far as SM and the actions and behaviors. We all would act differently if in her situation - that's a given. Me, I, would probably have to be sedated at first and then once I got my faculties back, well I would get on here and ask for help - plus I would make sure anyone and everyone knew EVERYTHING that took place that day - where I was, where my DH was, what both of us were doing. How many times has it been said that the parents should do and offer everything they can as soon as they can so LE can clear them and move on to find the child?

It would make me :furious: to know the public was blaming me and I would be screaming at every reporter that would listen about where I was, etc. etc. My life would be an open book and I would offer up anything that was asked. And yes, I do realize that there will always be some that won't believe the earth is round and the sky is blue - but it would help keep the focus on the child.

In this case, we've heard that SM ran errands after leaving the school. Again, if it was me - I would hand over my cell and say "hear - go through it - check everything - I was at the grocery and then the bank and then the dollar store - check their cameras - better yet I have the receipts...." Now we don't know that SM has done that - but those phone pings would be crucial to clearing me!!!!

LE is not going to say the family is clear unless they have verified that all 4 parents were here or there and its been proven. So if 1 is questionable LE sticks with the "no comment".

 

[JBean]

I saw a blurb for the talent show from last year and it was an under 2 minute performance by anyone in K-8.

 

[bamamba]

Thanks Kimster. I hope it didn't sound like I worked at Kyron's school. I work at a school in Alabama. I agree with Mom2three that the teachers do depend on the office to check students out and make sure they are going home with a person they are suppose to. We call down to the class and ask them to send a student up to be checked out. I can't remember how many students are at Kyron's school, but I would think that it is small enought for someone to have seen who he left with. If it was a busy day in the parking lot people were coming and going at all times that morning.

 

[4BB]

You can see all places of interest on this map:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...741092510424599794.0004885502c0e5890795a&z=10

Wow..how did I overlook that? That map is...wow. Add that info to the street view and the picture just kind of paints itself in a way for me. Thanks

 

[Kimster]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_wraps_up_a.html

"As the operation ratcheted back, about 210 searchers went out Sunday, many of them spotted at Sauvie Island again. They were on foot and on horses; some were delivered to the island by TriMet buses.

At the base camp, Linn County Deputy Sheriff Joe Larsen said he and a team of four deputies and 14 high school volunteers from Albany arrived Saturday and took part in three separate search assignments, through steep terrain, underbrush and blackberry bushes.

"It is the premier mentoring program in Linn County, serving countless teens in its more than 30 years of operation. The youth of SAR work shoulder to shoulder with the deputies of the Linn County Sheriff`s Office. " <snipped>

http://www.linnsheriff.org/sar.html

The teens are trained for SAR.

 

[revampz]

The teacher did nothing out of the ordinary. The school spokesperson made it quite clear that no checking up on absent students was done EVER, on ANY day of the school year. If they weren't there they were just marked absent, that's it, no followup ever. There have been statements from the school saying that it was common for students to leave early on days with activities. The teacher marked him absent at whatever time she took attendance that day. We know for a fact that would not be until sometime after the final bell at 8:45. Other than that everything is speculation.

jmoo

that is what I asked before........so it then would be possible for the teacher to assume, without anyone mentioning an appointment, that even though she saw Kyron at the science fair that morning, he may have only come to school to see that and really was not officially in class..

I can see this happening as the other day my son had an under 8's day and I was helping out......after lunch it was over and they were just going to do religious instruction and quiet stuff for the rest of the afternoon.........as i was doing other stuff I decided to take him after the activities....BUT I told the teacher who informed me to tell the office......as I did....

 

[JBean]

The story about the stepmother telling the teacher that Kyron had an appointment hasn't been confirmed, nor has the story about an email. But if that did happen, LE definately knows about it and there would be an email as proof. The truth is, we have no clue as to what LE knows. I vacilate between thinking they know nothing or they know exactly what happened. I just have to have faith I guess. I live here and I want to beleive that we have a competent police force. When I see LE looking for Kyron I have to believe that they would look just as hard for my child if they went missing. There is a lot of pressure on them right now. The nation is watching. If they don't solve this then everyone will know. I guess what I am saying is that I am going to believe that this is solvable and LE knows exactly what they are doing.

I am with you on this DG. In reality we only have bits of info and LE knows the answers to many of our questions.

 

[Kimster]

Thanks Kimster. I hope it didn't sound like I worked at Kyron's school. I work at a school in Alabama. I agree with Mom2three that the teachers do depend on the office to check students out and make sure they are going home with a person they are suppose to. We call down to the class and ask them to send a student up to be checked out. I can't remember how many students are at Kyron's school, but I would think that it is small enought for someone to have seen who he left with. If it was a busy day in the parking lot people were coming and going at all times that morning.

OH! Thanks for clarifying! I did think you meant your child went to the school.

 

[s_finch]

Just thinking about defensive wounds in a worst case scenario - that Kyron is deceased.

Unless little Kyron was drugged or poisoned - the person who did something to him would probably have some marks on them wouldn't they? Even little 7 yr. olds can fight back.

They can fight back but defense wounds would depend on how much time Kyron had to react, position he was being held in, strength of perp,,,, I don't think lack of defense wounds is an indication in this case

JMOO

 

[Deeemdee]

Just thinking about defensive wounds in a worst case scenario - that Kyron is deceased.

Unless little Kyron was drugged or poisoned - the person who did something to him would probably have some marks on them wouldn't they? Even little 7 yr. olds can fight back.

Bashed in the head? No marks. Shot with a gun? No marks.
Close contact like suffocation or strangulation they might be able to leave a scratch.

 

[Pensfan]

I told my DH that if our children were ever abducted, I would dance naked outside the house every day just to keep the public talking about the crime. I would not care if I was implicated because I would not be concerned about MY reputation. I would only be concerned about finding my child. Maybe 4000 SAR teams would show up in my city just to find my kid because they hated seeing my naked body on tv and wanted to see my naked bum in jail since a crazy, naked mom probably killed her child.

Although some people have problems with Natalie H.'s mom, she did an excellent job of keeping her daughter's disappearance in people's minds. Sadly, she still doesn't have answers.

 

[gwenabob]

Just thinking about defensive wounds in a worst case scenario - that Kyron is deceased.

Unless little Kyron was drugged or poisoned - the person who did something to him would probably have some marks on them wouldn't they? Even little 7 yr. olds can fight back.

Or tasered. In an electrical experiment.

 

[mommya]

Ya'll are right - I guess I was just thinking about strangulation mostly

 

[4BB]

Is this permitted?
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...index.html++"rdsqrl"&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Im coming up with a blank page.

 

[SuziQ]

Just thinking about defensive wounds in a worst case scenario - that Kyron is deceased.

Unless little Kyron was drugged or poisoned - the person who did something to him would probably have some marks on them wouldn't they? Even little 7 yr. olds can fight back.

According to the ME in the Christian Newsom trial, it's common for a victim to not fight back if they are outsized, outnumbered, or outgunned.

 

[bamamba]

OH! Thanks for clarifying! I did think you meant your child went to the school.

Like I said, I am new at this. Should have clarified where I volunteered.

 

[mommya]

Did someone post a bit ago about the school saving food scraps for some pig farmer?

I hate to even go there - but is it true that pigs will eat a body?

 

[Emma Peel]

from your link:

Ronald Turco, M.D., is a widely recognized psychiatrist, author and wilderness enthusiast who lives in Portland, Oregon. He is a Diplomate of The American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology and has served as an Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the Oregon Health Sciences University for more than 30 years. As a member of the American Academy of Psychoanalysis, he served as Chairman of The Study Group on Art, Creativity and Culture, and Chairman of The Committee on Human Rights and Social Issues. He is active in Transcultural study programs and sponsored numerous children through the Futures for Children Program.

Dr. Turco has also had a long involvement with the Asian community in Portland, Oregon, including both teaching and student exchange. A former officer in the United States Air Force, he has written five books and more than 170 technical papers in the field of psychiatry and psychological profiling.

As a consultant psychiatrist practicing in Portland, Oregon, Dr. Turco emphasizes psychotherapy and the minimal use of medications in treating combat related stress disorders and post traumatic stress disorder, unresolved grief reactions, child loss and depression. His practice also includes the psychiatric treatment of physical injuries (amputations, burns, crush injuries), body dysmorphism and disfigurement, serious physical illnesses and sexual abuse.
-------------

I don't see forensic experience on the list...'psychological profiling' is kinda vague and does not necessarily mean criminal profiling.

These interviews are old. And, I did this a few days ago calliope - I looked these "experts" up.

go here and see Turco's book on criminal profiling. He profiled Oregon's famous serial killer or something:
http://www.ronaldturco.com/published_books.htm
"closely watched shadows" is the book name...

 

[Calliope]

I have just a few thoughts today -

FWIW: The teacher and "marking him absent". The rumor we've heard from the other child saying a "sub" noticed Kyron not there and then the teacher saying "oh, he must be in the bathroom" then the sub left. I have taught in different states and while the method of taking attendance may have differed - one thing didn't. The teacher of record turned in the attendance and at the end of the year we had to physically sign the attendance for each child for the year. With that, I think the "sub" was only taking attendance for the group tour, not the "official" attendance for the day. The regular teacher did that - probably sometime later. I agree with the other poster/teacher that if Kyron hadn't materialized since the "sub" noticed he was gone - I would have been on it like a shot. But yet the teacher wasn't - or maybe it just took a simple call to the office and she was told "not to worry". ITA that because this teacher has not been removed - what she did is probably verified and justified.

Also FWIW - by the time this is all over - I don't think there will be a lawsuit against the school or the district.

As far as SM and the actions and behaviors. We all would act differently if in her situation - that's a given. Me, I, would probably have to be sedated at first and then once I got my faculties back, well I would get on here and ask for help - plus I would make sure anyone and everyone knew EVERYTHING that took place that day - where I was, where my DH was, what both of us were doing. How many times has it been said that the parents should do and offer everything they can as soon as they can so LE can clear them and move on to find the child?

It would make me :furious: to know the public was blaming me and I would be screaming at every reporter that would listen about where I was, etc. etc. My life would be an open book and I would offer up anything that was asked. And yes, I do realize that there will always be some that won't believe the earth is round and the sky is blue - but it would help keep the focus on the child.

In this case, we've heard that SM ran errands after leaving the school. Again, if it was me - I would hand over my cell and say "hear - go through it - check everything - I was at the grocery and then the bank and then the dollar store - check their cameras - better yet I have the receipts...." Now we don't know that SM has done that - but those phone pings would be crucial to clearing me!!!!

LE is not going to say the family is clear unless they have verified that all 4 parents were here or there and its been proven. So if 1 is questionable LE sticks with the "no comment".

An online friend's husband was tragically killed a few years ago. That very morning, she was on our board, reaching out to the people there she'd come to know over the years. A number of people viciously attacked her, claiming she was lying, looking for attention, whatever... because they would never have been able to get online so soon after such a loss.

This woman had never met any of us in *real* life (we'd talked on the phone) but she had no family, worked from home with her husband... aside from her husband, we were her primary support system. Well, it was true that he'd been killed, and he was her life. She was completely devastated, and the accusations made by others simply because she didn't respond the way they felt she should tore her to pieces. We still talk now and then, and she says she's forgiven them; I don't know that I could.

Some have said that they consider sm and dad going to the gym to be a much healthier way to deal with their stress; I have to agree. Especially with a baby in the home, I'd rather see them 'working out' than falling to pieces and / or self-medicating into oblivion. And maintaining a sense of normal routine would be very important for the little one too. Additionally, the gym was a center of support for the search effort, and from the video report I saw, the patrons and owners were very supportive of sm and dad. It's entirely reasonable IMO for them to go there, to be among people who know and support them. As someone else pointed out, if they'd attended a church service, there would never have been such an uproar.

I've witnessed people react in every way imaginable to the loss of their loved ones. Nothing surprises me anymore and there isn't a "normal" way to react to stress and grief.