OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #15

[Calliope]

Is that what you believe?

I haven't said that.

We have direct statements made by that child, i.e. not a rumor, and IF he is correct about what the teachers said, how does that fit into TH taking Kyron?

 

[Calliope]

Really? Who is doing that?

All we know about that morning is that Kyron was at the school sometime between 8:00 and 8:45 AM on June 4. There is a photo made by his stepmother that bears out that fact.

My opinion is that more than one person saw him leave with his SM. That's my opinion. It's based partially but not completely on the statement provided that the two teachers thought that he left with his stepmother.

And just where does it state he was seen leaving with ANYONE, much less TH?

 

[BeanE]

bbm

Where has LE stated that no other children are in danger?

They never stated that until yesterday, then there was a partial quote in an article. Oddly, I didn't see anyone post it lol.

ETA:

Published: Monday, June 14, 2010, 4:47 PM

Although Kyron's disappearance is now classified as a criminal investigation, Gates said authorities still believe it's an isolated case and that there is "no reason to believe that kids are in any danger."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/search_for_kyron_horman_switch.html

 

[Flow]

May I please ask what they are saying.I do not have cable or the T.V.

[paraphrasing based on my memory which isn't great]

They mainly spoke with other parents in the area. How badly they want to know what happened to Kyron, how scared they are for him, how confused they are.

John Walsh appeared, also. He said that LE is playing it very close to the vest and they should.

Matt Lauer said "I know their is no manual on how to react in cases like this, but the American public has come to expect the family to be more involved. Isn't this a fair assumption?"

John Walsh replied "NO. It is not."

 

[Flow]

They never stated that until yesterday, then there was a partial quote in an article. Oddly, I didn't see anyone post it lol.

They stated it again today on the Today Show.

They probably told the parents in the area that a while back, too.

 

[TopTop]

The bus stopped and the driver told the parents Kyron did not get on the bus. The parents then continued to contact the school. No reason to follow the bus.

 

[Truthful Lies]

Please forgive me for the bus comments...I didn't know the bus had stopped. I should have researched it. I deleted it all because I thought about it...and realized it was a silly thought.

I'm going to repost what I wrote instead...just because I think it's a valid idea and I really want Kyron to be found!!!

I have a wild imagination..and I was thinking: what else, besides perverted motivations, would someone have to make Kyron vanish? Is it even remotely possible Kyron witnessed something awful (walking by an unused classroom, etc.) and that person had to "get rid of him" so he wouldn't report? Is it even remotely possible that some adult in that was in the school may have abused a child and Kyron saw? Every single one of those children should be questioned about possible abuse. That kid may not be saying anything because they are so ashamed or confused. That kid may have been told that they keep quiet about Kyron or they would be next. Kids can be scared into silence. =(

Every one of the parents should be questioned about their child's behavior that day...whether they were down or really angry (before Kyron's story hit the news). The parent may have no clue about the possible abuse (it happens far too often). But maybe they'd remember something from that day that was out of sorts (child hitting another or acting out)

 

[GrainneDhu]

In 1981, John Walsh's son Adam was abdubted from a Sears store at a mall in Hollywood, Florida, while his mother was shopping. Adam was murdered.
His father and mother went on to be an advocates for missing children.

Adam was also 7 years old.

Another similarity is that Adam Walsh disappeared from a crowded place without any reliable eyewitnesses.

He was near a bunch of kids playing a video game (video games were very new at that time). No one ever managed to find the other children, no adults ever came forward to say that they had seen him, etc.

He was out of his mother's sight for less than ten minutes. She started the search immediately. And yet--no reliable witnesses.

Even though logic says that many people must have seen Adam being abducted, no one really observed anything. That's because most of the time, people don't see things that seem ordinary to them.

 

[Truthful Lies]

Another similarity is that Adam Walsh disappeared from a crowded place without any reliable eyewitnesses.

He was near a bunch of kids playing a video game (video games were very new at that time). No one ever managed to find the other children, no adults ever came forward to say that they had seen him, etc.

He was out of his mother's sight for less than ten minutes. She started the search immediately. And yet--no reliable witnesses.

Even though logic says that many people must have seen Adam being abducted, no one really observed anything. That's because most of the time, people don't see things that seem ordinary to them.

OT - I grew up a stone's throw from that mall....right behind it. My parents NEVER told me about the case...I was a kid with an imagination. Funny enough, I used to have nightmares about the back entrance to the building as young as 7. I wouldn't go near it, even when other kids would play around it. Dad forced me to learn how to drive stickshift in that parking lot. When I finally found out about it, as an adult, I flipped and finally understood why that place terrified me - I always just thought I was nutty. Some places just hold a residual, horrible feeling.

 

[Reality Orlando]

I have to say this before my head explodes. File it away under useless information because I have no real, tangible evidence to support it.

This photograph gives me the creeps. No, I don't know why. Perhaps it's because the taker made the trash can the focal point of this picture and the only thing in this image that's subject to change quickly enough to warrant preservation is the... well......the only thing moving?:waitasec:

Grasping at straws, splitting hairs....I know but regardless, this picture makes me uncomfortable. My attention goes over and over again, every time someone posts it, right straight to that trash can.

Funny how each of us focuses on something different in a photo. Each time I see that photo I see the desk, in a hallway. Do kids sit out there by themselves while the others are in class. Is it a "time out" area? If so, is there supervision of students out there when the teacher is teaching class?

 

[Truthful Lies]

Funny how each of us focuses on something different in a photo. Each time I see that photo I see the desk, in a hallway. Do kids sit out there by themselves while the others are in class. Is it a "time out" area? If so, is there supervision of students out there when the teacher is teaching class?

Perhaps they were just trying to capture the wall images and artwork? I agree that the trash is the focal point, but that angle would also explain trying to get as much in of the walls as possible.

 

[pufnstuf]

1. Other children not in danger: there is no evidence that the children in the community or school are in any more danger now than before Kyron went missing. No evidence of a serial child murderer - so why would LE say anything different? LE did make a statement that parents/children should use the same precautions regarding safety as before this crime. moo

Would LE be so reckless to state that children are in no danger if they didn't know this for a fact? How does a serial child molester/killer start? With the first victim.

2. Isolated incident: No evidence of a serial child rapist/murderer. The FBI profile must have determined the perpetrator wasn't someone who raped and murdered on a nightly basis. Research shows that most murderers perpetrate their victim, do their damage, lay low for a period of time (rest), and resurface at a later time. Maybe in the same community or a different one. moo

So are you thinking that Isolated Incident doesn't mean that this is a lone incident, but possibly a string of isolated incidents? Because to me, that would be called... serial.

3. Criminal investigation: Kyron was in a category of 'endangered, missing'. He wasn't found. The next logical step is to categorize the investigation into a 'criminal' allowing LE access to different tools for investigative purposes. Perhaps there was evidence found or a witness with sound information. Moving it to a criminal investigation can be for many reasons. moo

I'm interested in knowing what tools you think were not accessed until Saturday, when this was publicly announced to be a criminal investigation.

IMO speculation is what being on this site is all about. However, why speculate on rumors rather than actual data/evidence? Where are the facts? If one uses the actual facts in this case - even speculation would be at a minimum - there aren't many facts. To target one person without such facts, is to me, criminal to the family and very destructive. For me, I prefer to wait until I have some substance to go on. This is a family with a toddler who will grow up and one day will read all that is said here - how awful that will be for her. moo mho[/QUOTE]

Maybe we should compile a list of facts. Where do you think we should begin? As for the baby, yes, I agree that she has a lot of pain ahead of her, with a brother missing and probably under terrible circumstances.

 

[Forensic fan]

or the teacher jumped to that conclusion since the sm was already on campus at one time. Any other day I would agree, but this day was atypical and nothing was as it would be on a normal day.

If someone told the teacher they were taking Kyron, that would pretty much be the focus of the investigation and that would be that, because that would be counter to everything we know.but we have heard no reports of this at all. Lets face it,if sm said she left and came back to pick him up at the school bus, but also told someone she was taking him earlier, this would be the entire focus of the investigation and she would be a POI. jmho

I'm just feeling more and more that it was an accident in the parking lot, and she tried to cover it up. I might be tempted to do the same thing, because how in the world could you tell your husband that you ran over his son? Then she just came home and acted normal, going out to meet the bus, knowing he would not be on it. Maybe she went to the car wash after it happened.

Just my opinion.

 

[TxLady2]

I have to say, my partner is an engineer, and this sounds like something he'd do/write. In times of crisis (at least initially), he doesn't freak out. He gets uber logical and starts taking ACTION steps to solve the problem. It's only later (if his action steps don't solve the problem) that his demeanor changes and he starts to fall apart. Remember, Kaine states that they don't know if Kyron has wandered off or if he's been kidnapped, so maybe he is still holding out hope that it's Kaine wandered off from school.

What I DO find weird is that he never refers to Kyron as "my son." He never uses the word "son" at all. I can't imagine my husband ever writing a letter appealing to co-workers' help in locating our missing child and him not starting off with something along the lines of, "Please help me find my daughter! She's missing!" Our child has had some major health crises and he has always referred to her as "my daughter," or "my baby," in writing and verbally when seeking assistance or explaining the situation to others. So I don't understand that. I think even in the Press Conference, Kaine doesn't refer to Kyron as "my son." The closest he gets is to say that, "I am Kyron's father." Why so impersonal sounding? Maybe he is a major compartmentalizer, I don't know.

BBM: See, that is what is so frustrating. On other forums, the parents or grandparents are criticized for saying "my daughter",or "my granddaughter" and not referring to her by name.
No matter what people do or say, someone is going to find fault with it. This isn't directed at you, personally, btw... I just bounced off your post to make a point. So please forgive me and don't take this the wrong way.
This man is an engineer, apparently that was a company email.... he chose to be formal, rather than personal. I see nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[R4ORT]

Perhaps they were just trying to capture the wall images and artwork? I agree that the trash is the focal point, but that angle would also explain trying to get as much in of the walls as possible.

Isn't it interesting how people see different things. I thought the angle was to show the shot of the staircase/well. The shot could have been taken from the lower landing to get a better shot (I believe, although I'm not a photographer!) of the walls (art) and classroom door. IDK :waitasec:

 

[mischiefmanager]

Sorry if this thought has been posted before...too many pages to catch up on with work and school...
Kyron is said to have gone to look at another student's science fair project on electricity (I believe his deskmate was interviewed and sd this-link anyone?)...could something have happened to him while 'looking' at it?? Was it a project that used batteries or a generator? Could he have been shocked or knocked unconscious?? Hit his head on the floor?? (wasn't it said Kyron had a medical issue LE wouldn't release?? (possible heart problems/or seizure disorder-for example- and a shock wouldn't be a good mix-)JMOO-as far as I've read nothing about Kryon's possible medical condition has been released
-Someone possibly panicing/not thinking correctly trying to coverup an accident?? This would be a scenerio that wouldn't put other children in that school in danger, (project would be taken down and gone home) and would explain why LE is keeping the identity of who was with him last out of public information and why SM sd for people not to believe news reports.:waitasec:

MOO...trying to tread lightly and still help find Kyron!

 

[Truthful Lies]

Isn't it interesting how people see different things. I thought the angle was to show the shot of the staircase/well. The shot could have been taken from the lower landing to get a better shot (I believe, although I'm not a photographer!) of the walls (art) and classroom door. IDK :waitasec:

I'm actually a model (lol). Maybe I should get Tricia to verify me (she's seen my work) as an expert model. Hah!!!! Anyway, I've spent time behind the lens, too...and most photographers wouldn't have taken the shot that way...but someone unfamiliar with photog techniques would. Not many pros (or just regular people that take pictures) would take a pic at eye level with bright light in front of them. Also, they would have straightened up the desk/moved the trash can, I would think, if they were capturing the art work....So I guess my opinion on this is invalid after thinking about it! Perhaps a child took that picture.

 

[revampz]

re the kids not in danger I do remember it being discussed before today/yesterday.....

I have seen one article with the headline "Isolated Incident"

and then found this from June 9th quoting both the "isolated case" and parents need not take extra precautions with their kids.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20007198-504083.html






To me isolated case means that no other kids are in danger.......

 

[Pensfan]

It's my belief that those "don't talk to/listen to the media" statements do not pertain so much to the morning hours of June 4th as they do to a general "don't talk to/listen to the media" about the family history or current dynamics or problems. It's like KH says don't tell the media anything about us and Terri backs him up by saying, but if people do talk to the media nobody else should believe them. I've always wondered what Terri was worried the media would say that she didn't want us to believe. At that point all the media had said was that her stepchild was missing. Why should we not believe that?

After one reads through filicide articles, you find that there is a lot of abuse or mental illness occurring in such families. I worry that it might be related to abuse, but I have no knowledge of abuse.
http://people.uncw.edu/bruce/hon 210/pdfs/infanticide.pdf

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...j0vFQr&sig=AHIEtbRtLgtlwp1CDI6-A2Sley5kMM04DA

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...Gt7bjr&sig=AHIEtbTjie1dZNJsmB4trw-zU3qkrpF6sg

http://www.unh.edu/sociology/media/pdfs-journal2009/1-Barthell-Shelton2009.pdf

http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~rakison/dalywilson.pdf

 

[carole]

Another similarity is that Adam Walsh disappeared from a crowded place without any reliable eyewitnesses.

He was near a bunch of kids playing a video game (video games were very new at that time). No one ever managed to find the other children, no adults ever came forward to say that they had seen him, etc.

He was out of his mother's sight for less than ten minutes. She started the search immediately. And yet--no reliable witnesses.

Even though logic says that many people must have seen Adam being abducted, no one really observed anything. That's because most of the time, people don't see things that seem ordinary to them.

I also remember that there was speculation that his mother had murdered him and then went to the store and called police to report him missing. That was NOT the case.