OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #15

[Kimster]

I read the name of Roy Kronk the day Caylee's body was found on a blog. Then it disappeared. I told some friends off the board that I thought it seemed credible while others were wondering who found her. (He didn't want to have his name released for quite a period of time).

We also knew who killed Elizabeth Olten because of blogs on websites.

BUT!!! I've also read a ton of stuff that didn't ring true also, like who the father of Caylee Anthony was and that sort of thing. Blogger posts are hit and miss and that's why we don't run with them on Websleuths.

 

[arielilane]

Anyone interested in discussing Kyron's art?

Nature influence? Northwest Influence?
General ability for a 7 year old?
Does anyone recognize these pictures from any children's books?
Why were these chosen for the slide show they are embedded in?

If not, that's okay. Sometimes it's just nice to have Kyron pictures in our thread.

http://www.kgw.com/news/slideshows/Photos-Missing-boy-Kyron-Horman-95777234.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=0

Simply beautiful artwork! An amazing detailed, talented, and intelligent youngster that Kyron is. Unbelievable that he is 7 years old and is doing this kind of work.

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

They would look where ever the cell phone pings were found wouldn't they, If infact they are looking at them. The locations in which the person of intrest spent the most time is where they would look the longest and hardest. IMOO.

ETA: I recall a statement that was made that confused me. Someone stated that they are closer to finding Kyron because they know where is NOT which brings them closer to where he is. (that is not a direct quote)

I think that I understand that better if they are indeed following GPS or Ping information.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

If LE had two reliable witnesses saying that they saw with whom he was leaving, there would have been NO search of the woods behind the school, no dogs tracking the school grounds, not THREE or more searches of the school, the person whose car he supposedly got into would not have unrestrained access to that car to go to the gym, nor would a liason police officer or anyone else be allowed to continue living in a home that had not been processed as a crime scene. If there were witnesses to him leaving the area the dog tracking and search grids would have begun from another address entirely.
Once again, logic should prevail over rumor. You don't search for a child in a building that witnesses have reported seeing him leave.

jmo

We simply don't know if the car has been "looked at". As for the home - we also don't know if anything happened there at all.

As for the searches - they are looking for Kyron. He has to be found.

 

[Pensfan]

"Tony Phipps' criminal history from Lane County court records:

1998 - Convicted of felony Sodomy in the 3rd Degree in Lane County. His female victim was 14 at the time. He was also charged with other rape and sodomy charges when the victim was 13 and 14, but those charges were dropped as part of a plea deal.

2000 - Convicted of misdemeanor Contributing to the Sexual Delinquency of a Minor in Lane County. His victim was the same girl as the 1998 sodomy conviction. The victim was 16 at the time.

2006 - Convicted in Albany for failing to register as a sex offender

2008 - Convicted in St. Helens for failing to register as a sex offender

Court records also indicate at least five women have taken out restraining orders against him, including his sodomy victim." <snipped>

http://www.kval.com/news/95990924.html

Hmmm. Do RSOs go from girls to boys? GAG. It makes me sick to type this. :furious:

BBM
The answer to this question depends on the typology of the offender. See Table 2.
http://www1.csbsju.edu/uspp/CrimPsych/CPSG-6.htm

 

[cluciano63]

At school? Someone lost their temper and then had to conceal it? I just can't see a family member losing it at school to the extent of having to hide it... That would be pretty hard to cover up too, not a lot of places that aren't public that family members have access to at most schools.

I'm thinking more along lines of parking lot, if Kyron came back outside and wanted to go home...or got into the car....that kind of thing...again, IF a family member was responsible...

 

[CaringCitizen]

From last closed thread on Kyron, a member posted the map from Skyline school to Sauvie Island and states the mileage:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=&q=11...e&ved=0CAoQ_AU

School to Suavie Island: 13.4 miles according to the above.

-----
Let's all look at the map again. If you take Newberry (which comes out at HWY 30) then you come out right at the very pointed bottom (south) section of Sauvie Island. The 13-15 miles that everyone refers to (as a distance between Skyline school and Sauvie) is a different location of this large island area.

BUT, if you click on the "search nearby" on the above posted google map and type "market" it will bring up the Pumpkin Patch and Kruger's as nearby results. Both of which are near the BOTTOM of Sauvie. This is the area that I think Puf's sky8 search over water video is showing a dirt path from the island to HWY 30. I'm just saying that the path from school to Sauvie can be shorter if this dirt path is there at the south end.

.

 

[arielilane]

My son at his age did beautiful artwork as well. He is an adult now and still draws beautifully. I have many of his work framed.

I would love to have the picture of the sun created by Kyron framed. Kyron is so talented.

 

[DairyGirl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

 

[Emma Peel]

We have an Art Lit programs in our schools.

Each month kids are introduced to selected artist, they study his/hers artwork and than try to imitate the technique.

My kids bring home pieced that they would never create on their own. I frame almost half of their work.

I suspect the sun creation is form Art Lit

Yes, now that's what I was kind of thinking. The best things my children ever did in school were their own interpretations of the impressionist masters. They were quite proud of them. But it wasn't really something introduced to them until later elementary.

 

[ketel0ne]

Has LE reassured the public that their children are safe? Have they told the community to be diligent in keeping track of their children? As school lets out tomorrow there will be 6 to 8 hours more each day where the children of Portland will be out and about. To me this speaks louder than anything they have said.

 

[raeann]

We simply don't know if the car has been "looked at". As for the home - we also don't know if anything happened there at all.

As for the searches - they are looking for Kyron. He has to be found.

BBM
Ummm....we know that the home was NEVER roped off and processed as a crime scene, that takes many days and would be the FIRST and most important place to look at in any case like this if a WITNESS said what is being rumored. The car would be in police custody and held there, it was not, as we saw it on video being driven. I have no problem with the searches and did not imply worng anything about them. But if the child was seen LEAVING THE AREA, the searches would have been centered in an entirely different location. AND once again, you don't search for him at the school if two witnesses said that they saw him LEAVE the school.

 

[snarkymalarkey]

Sort of on topic question - Post Partum depression. Can it manifest after 1 1/2 years or is it something that is very apparent from the get-go? This might be more of an opinion question too.

I didnt get treated for post partum but looking back I am quite certain I had it. It would say it was quite evident to everybody from the get go. I wouldnt get out of bed. Visitors came, and after 20 minutes of their company i would cry and need them to leave. I think it took less than a year to even out. I cried all the time. I snapped at everybody. I refused to let other people hold my child, and I was quite convinced in my head that certain family members wanted to steal my child and adopt them for themselves. I had a few explosive moments that are horrifyingly embarrassing looking back. I am thankful for having a loving and patient family on my side and my husbands. When I had my second child, I didnt experience any of that. It made me realize how imbalanced I was after I had my first.
I made a few really stupid statements that we laugh about now, but in the heat of the moment when i said those things, I really was not able to control my emotions or my temper. However I was never physically violent. I just felt sad and i felt a lack of privacy and i felt the need for constant attachment to my infant. Now that i'm on my second, if somebody wants to hold one of them, I"m delighted.

 

[CharlestonGal]

If it was a family member, why would this be the way it happened? There would be so many other times where the opportunity and alibi would be easier. Don't mean to sound morbid but...

Also, if it were a stranger it would be very risky to go into a school and do this.

Which totally points to someone who was in the school that day. I am going with parent of a friend, non-certified employee (para, custodian, delivery). I still want to know if Kyron ended up in one of the groups to tour the Science Fair, and that is when he went missing.

Many criminals are inept and not all that intelligent. Some are very, very bright. Planning a good murder is not easy because so many variables have to be thought of beforehand and dealt with wisely. Murdering someone in your own environment is extremely tricky. Some of the major points that have to be addressed:

1. You cannot be the last known person to have been with the victim.
2. The crime scene cannot be associated with you in any manner - not your home, not the victim's home, not your vehicle, not anyplace you've been known to frequent ever.
3. The entire crime has to take place in one location - you cannot transport ANYTHING with you, including the body, after the crime takes place.
4. You must have a reasonable alibi.

You say if it was a family member there must have been much better opportunities - like what? What is better than the victim being within the responsibility of the school? That has got to be the best fall guy ever. In all likelihood LE just spent the first 10 days of this investigation searching a 2 mile area around a school, which is not where the crime took place. Nothing criminal happened within 2 miles of the school, IMO.

I don't think this crime just randomly happened so perfectly - abducted in a school full of people and no one saw a thing. No way. It was planned very carefully in my opinion. I also think similar plans may have been made in the past and then wisely aborted at the last minute. I do not believe this was random. I believe someone very thoughtful is behind this, I believe Kyron was personally targeted, and I believe this has been in the works for some time.

MOO and all that.

 

[Claudette]

They would look where ever the cell phone pings were found wouldn't they, If infact they are looking at them. The locations in which the person of intrest spent the most time is where they would look the longest and hardest. IMOO.

ETA: I recall a statement that was made that confused me. Someone stated that they are closer to finding Kyron because they know where is NOT which brings them closer to where he is. (that is not a direct quote)

I think that I understand that better if they are indeed following GPS or Ping information.

That makes a lot of sense and I am going to agree with you on this.

 

[pufnstuf]

Puf - you are onto something. I just watched the sky8 over water search silent video. What I noticed is that when you get to -42 seconds (42 seconds from the end of the video), they pan out and show the school with a direct path (looks like a dirt path) to the water they are searching. That water is the Multnomah Channel (a tributary off the Willamette, btw) and is the "school side" of Sauvie Island.

Now, if you look at (your now famous) Puf google map, you don't see any streets with a direct path from school to water but google is only showing actual streets not dirt paths that could be there.

In the video, starting ~ -42seconds it looks for sure to be a straight path - wow! Someone could have gotten to water very fast it seems. You think they had pings to that part of Sauvie??

Hi, CC...

Check this out... a map showing the two quickest routes to the search location that was shown on KGW today, as well as other features. The search area also fits with the ping theory.




A person could have left the school, traveled by Cornelius Pass to the search area, and the trip wouldn't have taken but, tops, ten minutes. A person who was very familiar with Cornelius Pass could have been there in seven or eight. Of course, that's not taking into account whether or not the person made any detours along the way, to, say, perhaps swing by home for something.

You can see the map of routes, search area, cell tower/bridge location here:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...68,-122.845001&spn=0.143528,0.255775&t=h&z=12


Here's a photo of the bridge from somewhere around Hwy 30 near the turn-off to the area below, which was searched today.




And the Kyron case map is here, showing all features:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...92510424599794.0004885502c0e5890795a&t=h&z=10

 

[lillygator]

can someone point me to the rumors? I went to the FB island page but don't see anything

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

Although Kyron's disappearance is now classified as a criminal investigation, Gates said authorities still believe it's an isolated case and that there is "no reason to believe that kids are in any danger."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/search_for_kyron_horman_switch.html

Thats good!

 

[Snail]

Many criminals are inept and not all that intelligent. Some are very, very bright. Planning a good murder is not easy because so many variables have to be thought of beforehand and dealt with wisely. Murdering someone in your own environment is extremely tricky. Some of the major points that have to be addressed:

1. You cannot be the last known person to have been with the victim.
2. The crime scene cannot be associated with you in any manner - not your home, not the victim's home, not your vehicle, not anyplace you've been known to frequent ever.
3. The entire crime has to take place in one location - you cannot transport ANYTHING with you, including the body, after the crime takes place.
4. You must have a reasonable alibi.

You say if it was a family member there must have been much better opportunities - like what? What is better than the victim being within the responsibility of the school? That has got to be the best fall guy ever. In all likelihood LE just spent the first 10 days of this investigation searching a 2 mile area around a school, which is not where the crime took place. Nothing criminal happened within 2 miles of the school, IMO.

I don't think this crime just randomly happened so perfectly - abducted in a school full of people and no one saw a thing. No way. It was planned very carefully in my opinion. I also think similar plans may have been made in the past and then wisely aborted at the last minute. I do not believe this was random. I believe someone very thoughtful is behind this, I believe Kyron was personally targeted, and I believe this has been in the works for some time.

MOO and all that.

Scary! But logical points!

 

[SleuthyGal]

I'm going to say something possibly very unpopular, but here goes.

While I appreciate little Kyron's artistic talents and think he's a talented boy, I don't see a connection of his artwork and a discussion of other people's kids' artwork and school art programs to this case. As someone who is hoping to stay focused on the fact that he's missing and trying to figure out what happened that day, it would be nice if discussions that have nothing to do with any of that could occur in a separate place (or a separate thread)?

It's challenging enough to keep up on info about the case and many folks have only limited time to look at the case thread(s).