OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #9

[liz b.]

Hi, I just can't imagine a child in the second grade would have a cell phone! That is major over the top to me. He should be organized by his parents so he is safe at all times like I was when I was a little girl. My mom was on everything !!

I hear ya...different time now. I live in a fairly affluent town, lots of SAHMs, and most 2nd graders do have cell phones.In a way I can see it's a useful tracking device.My kids didn't have a cell at that age...

 

[theissueathand]

An old phone that's charged up can at least call 911, be used as a calculator and store some data and games. Some people give those to very young children and donate them to Domestic Violence prevention groups.

Wondering though...does a phone need a cell service provider to activate the gps?

I'm pretty sure that yes, the phone needs to be activated and have GPS as a feature in order to use the phone as a GPS tracker...

however, they can pinpoint positions from pings the phone makes depending on what towers are being hit. Phones always "ping" when sending/receiving messages and turning on/off

 

[pinkpuddytat]

On one Criminal Minds show, one of the characters said that stranger danger did more damage than good BECAUSE most children are not abducted by strangers. They are mostly abducted by family and then by acquaintances. Only .43 out of 1000 are abducted by strangers. The statistics are different for teenagers, though.

Children need to be taught a code word and they need to practice it everyday while they are younger. "If mommy wants you to come out to the car with someone, I will always use the code word."

Honestly, I very much doubt the usefulness of this. Is there any documented case where it has worked? Where a child reported that someone tried to get them to go somewhere, and the child didn't go because the person couldn't give the code word?

The trouble is that children young/immature enough that they can't accurately evaluate an unexpected request to go somewhere with the adult, are also unlikely to remember the code word plan in a real life situation, or are likely to be easily confused into telling the person what the code word is or believing it when the person tells them mommy must have forgotten to tell them the code word because she was upset about the "emergency".

Many years ago, I had my own first-hand experience with the ability of young children to understand and apply lessons about how to deal with potentially dangerous situations. Early one weekend morning, I was walking down my block to go to a nearby convenience store, and saw a very small boy (later confirmed age 5) walking along the sidewalk by himself. I thought it was a little odd, and I didn't recognize him, but wasn't quite worried enough to scare him by approaching and questioning him. A few minutes later, on my way back, I saw him again, walking along the same sidewalk in the opposite direction. That was plenty worrisome enough to stop and ask him if he was lost.

He told me his parents had dropped him off in front of his grandmother's house, as they were rushing his little brother to the emergency room (about 3 blocks away) because he was having an asthma attack. His grandmother was expecting him, but didn't answer the door when he knocked. So I walked him over to his grandmother's house, tried knocking on both the front and back doors, and got no response. Sooooo, I suggested to the little boy that he come with me to my house a little ways down the block, while I called the hospital emergency room to reach his parents. He thought that was a good idea, and seemed relieved to have an adult taking over the situation even it was one he didn't know. So he walked home with me and came in the kitchen door with me, and I got out the phone book, looked up the number and picked up the phone to start dialing. THEN he said, in a tiny scared little boy voice that I'll never forget: "I think I better go outside because I'm not allowed to go in stranger's houses." I told him that was a very good rule, and to go wait on the porch -- but thinking to myself that it obviously would have been way, way too late for this rule to do any good, if I'd actually been the dangerous kind of stranger.

Happy ending: I quickly got his father on the phone at the emergency room, father called the grandmother (who was apparently quite hard of hearing, and just hadn't heard all the knocks at her doors, even though she was expecting the boy), called me back to ask me to walk the boy back over to his grandmother's house, and she was waiting at the door, very apologetic.

So yes, the little fellow remembered what he'd been taught. But not in a way that would done a bit of good if an actual need for it had arisen.

 

[gibby207]

An old phone that's charged up can at least call 911, be used as a calculator and store some data and games. Some people give those to very young children and donate them to Domestic Violence prevention groups.

Wondering though...does a phone need a cell service provider to activate the gps?

I think it depends on phone and cell company... but don't quote me on that! lol

 

[SuziQ]

The more I think about it, the more I think y'all are on to something with the searches based on cell phone pings. Two miles is a small area IMO. I wouldn't be surprised that Kyron had a phone on him. Also though, in the beginning of this case on a live newscast, certain phone pings were being traced by LE. Which would be standard procedure of anyone who could be a suspect.

 

[human]

The following website has alot of great advice/resources for parents of a missing/abducted child: http://www.teamhope.org/nonfamilydo.html

Snipped;​

~ TEAM HOPE ~​

INTERACTION WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT​

*Work as a team. Try to establish a teamwork approach with law enforcement. They need you as part of the team. Cooperation with them is essential.

*Investigation of the family. You should be aware that law enforcement needs to investigate the family since approximately eight-five percent (85%) of abductions are by family members or someone known to the family. You can also expect law enforcement to ask some hard and difficult questions. DO NOT TAKE THIS PERSONALLY. Remember; keep focused on your goal of getting your child back.

*Law enforcement contact person. Establish or have law enforcement establish a contact person (one person) within your local law enforcement agency so you are consistently and accurately informed of on-going developments in your case.

*Ask for more help. Ask the FBI and/or your state crime bureau to assist in the investigation. Call the Governor of your State if need be to ask him/her for a show of support for your cause. Your Governor could also call in the National Guard to conduct a ground search.​

DEALING WITH NEWS MEDIA​

*Contact all local media. Police may have to initiate the request, but you or your spokesperson will be responsible for maintaining contact and keeping attention focused on the abduction story. Set up a phone listing of these local media sources so that they are readily accessible to you. The Jacob Wetterling Foundation has listings of news, magazines and talk shows.​

I think that the Jacob Wetterling Foundation has the best info out there. Very comprehensive.

 

[human]

Blessedly only .47 of 1000 kids are abducted by strangers.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fy867

Still waaaaay too many!

 

[AlexisFresca]

It's a family photo. You can see him with the rest of his family from the same day here - http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003676-26.html (there are several in the series)

TY so much for posting the link. Its the first additional pics I've seen. Sure looks like a happy boy and a happy family.

 

[BeanE]

Mother of St. Helens boy who fought off a sex offender describes the incident
Published: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 7:47 PM
Updated: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 8:01 PM

Police told the family the case does not appear connected to the Kyron Horman disappearance.

The Columbia County District Attorney's Office reviewed the police reports, and determined it doesn't have the evidence to prosecute Phipps for attempted kidnapping, let alone any other felony, said deputy district attorney John Berg. He said prosecutors would have to prove that Phipps intended to kidnap the boy. And although Berg said he couldn't go into details, evidence released by police indicates the man only grabbed at Cameron. He didn't, for example, drag the boy -- an act that would bolster an attempted kidnapping charge.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/mother_of_st_helens_boy_who_fo.html

 

[annalyzer]

The more I think about it, the more I think y'all are on to something with the searches based on cell phone pings. Two miles is a small area IMO. I wouldn't be surprised that Kyron had a phone on him. Also though, in the beginning of this case on a live newscast, certain phone pings were being traced by LE. Which would be standard procedure of anyone who could be a suspect.

I really doubt if he had a cellphone that he had it on him. His coat and backpack were left behind, I understand. Maybe it's someone else's cellphone that pinged in those areas after he went missing.

 

[Pensfan]

I really doubt if he had a cellphone that he had it on him. His coat and backpack were left behind, I understand. Maybe it's someone else's cellphone that pinged in those areas after he went missing.

Yes, it is policy in most schools that cellphones must be off and left in the locker. They must have been tracking someone else's pings.

 

[gibby207]

The more I think about it, the more I think y'all are on to something with the searches based on cell phone pings. Two miles is a small area IMO. I wouldn't be surprised that Kyron had a phone on him. Also though, in the beginning of this case on a live newscast, certain phone pings were being traced by LE. Which would be standard procedure of anyone who could be a suspect.

Yeah, the 'ping' I hadn't thought of before until one astute WS'er brought it up. So, it's got me thinking on the variety of phones out there with that capability, and when they learned and when they investigated the phones more, time-wise.

 

[scandi]

I think the meeting may be LE bringing the parents in to tell them that this looks like an abduction, that they may be intending to release that info, perhaps with a description or sketch, and that they're doing this so the parents won't be so upset just hearing it cold on the news, particularly if it's announced during the noon presser tomorrow. They'd have parents running to the school to get their kids out of there, and/or they'd get tons of phone calls. By bringing them in, they could answer their questions on the spot.

Good guess BeanE since we know LE is about to release more info on the case soon. xox

 

[human]

Forgive me if this has already been posted. I am trying to read everything, but I got impatient with the long discussion of the VW car (which I think is a distraction).

Anyway, here's a link from the Oregonian with their version of a timeline:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

Like everyone here I fervently hope for a good resolution to this troubling event.

Excellent time line. It does say that he was supposed to be in the talent show.

 

[gibby207]

Good guess BeanE since we know LE is about to release more info on the case soon. xox

Ohh... yes.... thankful for more info.

 

[AlexisFresca]

Blessedly only .47 of 1000 kids are abducted by strangers.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fy867

True, and I totally understand that. However, to a parent of a child who gets caught in that .47, well .....

 

[yosande]

Are you talking about this one?

http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003676-23.html?tag=page;next

great pics!

Thanks for the link.

They look like a wonderful family, very family oriented.
The pics of the school; didn't see any "groups" but did see two men who didn't appear to be with anyone.
The one in the red cap, and the other one was bald.

He looks older in that pic, even though it appears to be taken the same day.
The "fair must have been all over the school, even outside, as the woman with the little kids and school age child is going into a small building in the background.
A very opportunistic morning.
It would be easy to see him or any of the kids feeling free to go anywhere.
I'm certainly glad that LE probably has so many pics, so they can see if anyone who shouldn't have been there, was there.

And yet, it's been so long since he went missing.
It must be difficult for the family, the community, and LE to stay encouraged at this point.
May their hearts be strengthened, and let some sunshine come soon.
May they find little Kyron, who looks like a delightful boy, so he can come home soon.
moo

ETA; perhaps the talk about the pic being at the zoo is the one I thought was at the school being as he has the same shirt on. pic 23?
sorry for my confusion. :I

 

[human]

I am so short on details and I don't know if this applies to all states. But I think it's Wisconsin where one of the cell providers was sued because they wouldn't release pings when a girl (older) was missing. The case was won.

The girl could have been helped in time, it was felt.

I hope someone knows of this and has more info. I think the lawsuit is very recent.

 

[Emma Peel]

I think the meeting may be LE bringing the parents in to tell them that this looks like an abduction, that they may be intending to release that info, perhaps with a description or sketch, and that they're doing this so the parents won't be so upset just hearing it cold on the news, particularly if it's announced during the noon presser tomorrow. They'd have parents running to the school to get their kids out of there, and/or they'd get tons of phone calls. By bringing them in, they could answer their questions on the spot.

When I read about this meeting I got nauseous. I'm thinking parents first, then whatever it is, they will media presser after. Can't be good news.

 

[dorothyz]

Good guess BeanE since we know LE is about to release more info on the case soon. xox

I must have missed something, did LE say they were going to release more info?

I was thinking the same as BeanE, that the meeting was a courtesy "pre-notification" that they were going to turn it into a criminal investigation, and could answer questions since that will obviously scare the parents.

And they will probably also tell them to stop talking to the media.