OR - Oregon decriminalizes possession of hard drugs, Nov 2020

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GuyfromCanada said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/04/election-drugs-oregon-new-jersey/

It's legal to possess a small amount of drugs such as: cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, misdemeanor for larger amount.

What's your opinion on this approach?
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I’m for it. We don’t need more people in jails or prisons due to drug use. This is the approach Portugal took some years ago and it led to a decrease in drug use:

“Over the course of two decades, the government’s response had been one that Americans will recognize: it introduced increasingly harsh policies led by the criminal justice system, while conservative critics spoke out against drug use. By the late ’90s, about half the people in prison were there for drug-related reasons—creating a large addicted inmate population. Nothing was working. On the other side of the Atlantic, the U.S. was doing the same: spending billions of dollars cracking down on drug users.

But in 2001, Portugal took a radical step. It became the first country in the world to decriminalize the consumption of all drugs...

In Portugal, meanwhile, the drug-induced death rate has plummeted to five times lower than the E.U. average and stands at one-fiftieth of the United States’. Its rate of HIV infection has dropped from 104.2 new cases per million in 2000 to 4.2 cases per million in 2015. Drug use has declined overall among the 15- to 24-year-old population, those most at risk of initiating drug use.”
Want to Win the War on Drugs? Portugal Might Have the Answer
 
news buff said:
Homicides went up 40% in the 5 years after decriminalization. Petty crime also went up. Drug decriminalisation in Portugal: setting the record straight.
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From your own link:

“A widely repeated claim is that, as a result of Portugal’s decriminalisation policy, drug-related homicides increased 40% between 2001 and 2006.29 30 But this claim is based on a misrepresentation of the evidence. The 40% increase (from 105 to 148) was for all homicides, defined as any ‘intentional killing of a person, including murder, manslaughter, euthanasia and infanticide’31 – they were not ‘drug-related’. In fact, there are no data collected for drug-related homicides....neither the UNODC nor anyone else has proposed a causal mechanism by which the decriminalisation policy could have produced this rise, and given that the policy did not include any changes to how drug trafficking offences were dealt with, the possibility of such a link seems highly implausible. Furthermore, Portugal’s homicide rate has since declined to roughly what it was in 2002.”

“Despite claims to the contrary, decriminalisation appears to have had a positive effect on crime. With its recategorisation of low-level drug possession as an administrative rather than criminal offence, decriminalisation inevitably produced a reduction in the number of people arrested and sent to criminal court for drug offences...Additionally, decriminalisation does not appear to have caused an increase in crimes typically associated with drugs. While opportunistic thefts and robberies had gone up when measured in 2004, it has been suggested that this may have been because police were able to use the time saved by no longer arresting drug users to tackle (and record) other low-level crimes...this theory is perhaps supported by the fact that, during the same period, there was a reduction in recorded cases of other, more complex crimes typically committed by people who are dependent on drugs, such as thefts from homes and businesses.”
 
This is definitely a hopeful step in the right direction. Addicts do not belong in prison. Period. Keep the courts and the prisons free for actual criminals. With harm reduction strategies and decriminalization we might actually get somewhere with the "war on drugs".
 
I am all for it. Historically speaking, the first time crime went drastically up and criminal syndicates formed in the US was after Prohibition kicked in. I have read several books on Prohibition to realize that 1) people never drank as much as during Prohibition, and, 2) all these groups, the Purple Gang, Al Capone, etc, were fermented by the Prohibition. So I assume, drugs follow the same pattern. And in general, any measure that forms the black market is toxic.
There are reasons why people use, psychiatric, economic, social, and genetic. Some of them we can target (better psychiatric services), some, maybe can be changed in the future (genetics). Economy and social life are more difficult, but at least, can be studied, to make some changes.
It seems that drug use comes in waves, and what precedes these waves would be interesting to study. Now we are on the "up" swing, but it is not limited to the US, it is the worldwide trend.

My only concern: when I spoke to opiate addicts about legalizing hard drugs, some agreed, but one said, "if they did it, I'd be dead already". So knowing how dangerous opiates are...and in the same time, the need to break the black market is there... maybe to people who are verifiably addicted, their drugs could be provided for free. By the society. Opiates are cheap, just poppyseed extract. It is the illegality that drives up the price. Understanding that only 1/3 of addicts eventually get clean, and as to the rest... I don't want women to sell themselves on the streets, and the gangs executing for drug-relating debts. It is bad enough that people are addicts.

Anyhow, I support the initiative, and I think we should study the experience of progressive countries, like the Netherlands or Norway, to see what is rational and reasonable, and what is not.
 
gitana1 said:
From your own link:

“A widely repeated claim is that, as a result of Portugal’s decriminalisation policy, drug-related homicides increased 40% between 2001 and 2006.29 30 But this claim is based on a misrepresentation of the evidence. The 40% increase (from 105 to 148) was for all homicides, defined as any ‘intentional killing of a person, including murder, manslaughter, euthanasia and infanticide’31 – they were not ‘drug-related’. In fact, there are no data collected for drug-related homicides....neither the UNODC nor anyone else has proposed a causal mechanism by which the decriminalisation policy could have produced this rise, and given that the policy did not include any changes to how drug trafficking offences were dealt with, the possibility of such a link seems highly implausible. Furthermore, Portugal’s homicide rate has since declined to roughly what it was in 2002.”

“Despite claims to the contrary, decriminalisation appears to have had a positive effect on crime. With its recategorisation of low-level drug possession as an administrative rather than criminal offence, decriminalisation inevitably produced a reduction in the number of people arrested and sent to criminal court for drug offences...Additionally, decriminalisation does not appear to have caused an increase in crimes typically associated with drugs. While opportunistic thefts and robberies had gone up when measured in 2004, it has been suggested that this may have been because police were able to use the time saved by no longer arresting drug users to tackle (and record) other low-level crimes...this theory is perhaps supported by the fact that, during the same period, there was a reduction in recorded cases of other, more complex crimes typically committed by people who are dependent on drugs, such as thefts from homes and businesses.”
Click to expand...
The facts are the facts, and the writer of the article gives the facts and then tries to spin them. There are indeed good things such as the HIV rate, that has come out of this, but certainly negatives too.
 
news buff said:
The facts are the facts, and the writer of the article gives the facts and then tries to spin them. There are indeed good things such as the HIV rate, that has come out of this, but certainly negatives too.
Click to expand...

I can talk to a guy from Portugal on a different forum, ask his opinion; we traveled to/over Portugal, last year, and it appears a safe country. It would seem to me that one has to compare statistics of crime in Portugal with that of other EU countries. If the increase in crime in Portugal is unparalleled to other countries, such as Spain, of France, it is one thing. If the trend is the same around EU, other factors that recently came into play might contribute. I suspect it is a mixture, but without good statistical analysis, we can not speak about causality.
 
news buff said:
The facts are the facts, and the writer of the article gives the facts and then tries to spin them. There are indeed good things such as the HIV rate, that has come out of this, but certainly negatives too.
Click to expand...

No. It's not certain at all. The facts are the facts. And the facts indicate that Portugal's homicide rate was 1.0 per 100,000 in 2001 when drugs were decriminalized. That rate rose. But by 2009 it was at 0.9. And as of 2018 it is at .08.

Portugal Homicide rate, 1990-2019 - knoema.com

Further, as the writer states, the 8 year increase in homicide was not determined to be drug-related homicides. And petty crimes increases were not of crimes associated with drug use.

Looking at Spain, which is right next door and has a similar demographic and government, but which does not have as comprehensive a decriminalization program as Portugal, the homicide rate was 1.4 in 2001 and is now down to about 0.7.

Spain Murder/Homicide Rate 1990-2020.

From your article:

-Drug use has declined among those aged 15-24,6 the population most at risk of initiating drug use
-Between 2000 and 2005 (the most recent years for which data are available) rates of problematic drug use and injecting drug use decreased
-Rates of continuation of drug use (i.e. the proportion of the population that have ever used an illicit drug and continue to do so) have decreased
- Deaths due to drug use have decreased significantly – from approximately 80 in 2001, to 16 in 2012.

You can't have a increase in crime due to decriminalization if drug use has actually decreased. That's not logical.

In the meantime, continuing our War on Drugs harsh approach, our homicide rate in the US is 2.5.

Crime in the United States - Wikipedia.

And our drug-induced death rate is five times higher than Portugal's.

Want to Win the War on Drugs? Portugal Might Have the Answer
 
gitana1 said:
No. It's not certain at all. The facts are the facts. And the facts indicate that Portugal's homicide rate was 1.0 per 100,000 in 2001 when drugs were decriminalized. That rate rose. But by 2009 it was at 0.9. And as of 2018 it is at .08.

Portugal Homicide rate, 1990-2019 - knoema.com

Further, as the writer states, the 8 year increase in homicide was not determined to be drug-related homicides. And petty crimes increases were not of crimes associated with drug use.

Looking at Spain, which is right next door and has a similar demographic and government, but which does not have as comprehensive a decriminalization program as Portugal, the homicide rate was 1.4 in 2001 and is now down to about 0.7.

Spain Murder/Homicide Rate 1990-2020.

From your article:

-Drug use has declined among those aged 15-24,6 the population most at risk of initiating drug use
-Between 2000 and 2005 (the most recent years for which data are available) rates of problematic drug use and injecting drug use decreased
-Rates of continuation of drug use (i.e. the proportion of the population that have ever used an illicit drug and continue to do so) have decreased
- Deaths due to drug use have decreased significantly – from approximately 80 in 2001, to 16 in 2012.

You can't have a increase in crime due to decriminalization if drug use has actually decreased. That's not logical.

In the meantime, continuing our War on Drugs harsh approach, our homicide rate in the US is 2.5.

Crime in the United States - Wikipedia.

And our drug-induced death rate is five times higher than Portugal's.

Want to Win the War on Drugs? Portugal Might Have the Answer
Click to expand...
That homicide in Portugal went up 40% after decriminalizing drugs is a wee bit of a clue that it was drug related no matter whether you want it to be or not. Interesting data site you provided. Decriminalizing drugs is a way to sow chaos.
https://www.unodc.org/documents/ung...dation/Drug-decriminalisation-in-Portugal.pdf
 
news buff said:
That homicide in Portugal went up 40% after decriminalizing drugs is a wee bit of a clue that it was drug related no matter whether you want it to be or not. Interesting data site you provided. Decriminalizing drugs is a way to sow chaos.
https://www.unodc.org/documents/ung...dation/Drug-decriminalisation-in-Portugal.pdf
Click to expand...

If you look at drugs exactly the same way as we view drinking, decriminalization of drugs will not affect the use per se; rather, it will deal with the black market and crime syndicates. It is exactly the same that happened with legalization of marijuana. (The sales have gone to some corporate structures, who at least pay taxes). I am concerned about the inequality of the laws between the states that might create issues, like we now see it with marijuana, but I think that soon after Oregon, the whole West Coast will do the same.

As to the prisons, well, we don't have affordable housing for the homeless and mentally ill on the streets; a place in a shelter is hard to get. I think some of these well-built compounds might better serve as housing, with some rearrangement.
 
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news buff said:
That homicide in Portugal went up 40% after decriminalizing drugs is a wee bit of a clue that it was drug related no matter whether you want it to be or not. Interesting data site you provided. Decriminalizing drugs is a way to sow chaos.
https://www.unodc.org/documents/ung...dation/Drug-decriminalisation-in-Portugal.pdf
Click to expand...

It could be a clue or it could be related to something else. The declining drug use rate in Portugal seems to belie the notion that it’s related.
 
animlzrule said:
This is definitely a hopeful step in the right direction. Addicts do not belong in prison. Period. Keep the courts and the prisons free for actual criminals. With harm reduction strategies and decriminalization we might actually get somewhere with the "war on drugs".
Click to expand...
This this this!!!!!
 
FEB 2024

Lawmakers took another step Thursday to roll back part of Measure 110, passing the bill reintroducing criminal penalties for possession of small amounts of illicit drugs out of the Oregon House.

House Bill 4002 passed by a vote of 51-7, with two members excused. Four Democrats and three Republicans voted against the bill, which now awaits a vote in the Oregon Senate.

The bill will penalize drug possession as an entirely new misdemeanor with penalties of up to 180 days in jail. Counties have been asked to commit to offering deflection and diversion programs; 23 of 36 counties have signed letters of commitment so far.

More at Oregon House passes bill to reintroduce criminal penalties for drug possession
 
GuyfromCanada said:
FEB 2024

Lawmakers took another step Thursday to roll back part of Measure 110, passing the bill reintroducing criminal penalties for possession of small amounts of illicit drugs out of the Oregon House.

House Bill 4002 passed by a vote of 51-7, with two members excused. Four Democrats and three Republicans voted against the bill, which now awaits a vote in the Oregon Senate.

The bill will penalize drug possession as an entirely new misdemeanor with penalties of up to 180 days in jail. Counties have been asked to commit to offering deflection and diversion programs; 23 of 36 counties have signed letters of commitment so far.

More at Oregon House passes bill to reintroduce criminal penalties for drug possession
Click to expand...
Can anyone, please, halt or at least, slow down these swings of pendulum?
 
LadyL said:
we need it to swing back
the decriminalization has destroyed the fabric of society in a lot of places, including where I live
it was a huge mistake and it's a huge mess we have to clean up JMO
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Well, we made another trip to see one more hidden pearl in my state, and when it happens, it is safer to go down I-84 to Oregon, spend a night there and then drive back home. We stayed in Nothern Portland, at the confluence of I-5 and I-84. How does that area count? It certainly changed, more houses built but on the other hand, I had a very strange feeling.
 
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