GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #3

[PoirotryInMotion]

Being 'assigned' to the congregation geographically isn't surprising, but being assigned and 'regularly attending' are completely independent of one another.

I don't get the feeling the congregation is trying to distance themselves at all, but quite the opposite, acknowledging the surprise and hurt that this transpired with someone they know within their local congregation. I know of several in our local Hall who are irregular, or have even just stopped attending altogether, they are still 'assigned' but they don't go.

Yes, I agree that being assigned and regularly attending are independent of each other; I mentioned it to clarify earlier wonderings in this thread about if Holt had noticed her at church and stalked her to the point of moving into the same complex. Seems it works the other way around; he'd have to be in the complex in order to attend her church.

I got the feeling the congregation was trying to distance itself not just by calling him an irregular attender, but also by noting that one of the commenters in the linked article had also asked on the Facebook page dedicated to her search/recovery if Holt attended the same church--and that comment, rather than being answered, was simply removed. (It seems the page is administrated by JW folk.)

I have several neighbors on my FB who I would consider little more than acquaintances, and we too swap watching each other's pets when going away for more than a day. Mail we leave to closer friends to pic up every few days, but having the neighbor across the street let your dog out to pee a few times a day while you are gone overnight is infinitely more convenient, and common practice on my street.

<edit to add> Also, when we were on an extended vacation, in different time zones, it was a convenience to have our neighbor on our FB, as they let us know how the house was, sent me messages if anything seemed out of the ordinary, etc...it was super nice, but still, not like our best buds lol

People's comfort levels with this can vary...but I also got the impression from reading news articles that they weren't 'next door neighbors' or even located that close to each other in the apt. building...so it's still curious to me.

 

[Melancholy]

Regarding his parents, it looks like his mother was NOT JW. From the obit of her father, he came from Italy (I think) and was a practicing Catholic. His father must have been JW and his mother coverted?

His poor parents, his wife, heck, his poor brother! I feel almost as hurt for them as for WH's family and friends I realize there's a whole 'religion aspect' about this...but regardless of your faith, the tragedy, and amount of people this touches (HURTS!) is mind boggling.

It's possible he just became a JW on his own...perhaps his parents never converted?

 

[Ashfox]

I hope things get cleared up as time goes on. I think he had to be watching her and found an opportunity I see WH as being sweet and I think he lured her in some way then once he was in the car confronted her... I wonder how he got in the drivers seat??

 

[Melancholy]

also by noting that one of the commenters in the linked article had also asked on the Facebook page dedicated to her search/recovery if Holt attended the same church--and that comment, rather than being answered, was simply removed. (It seems the page is administrated by JW folk.)

Ohhh, I haven't been able to keep up on that one (plus this one lol), I noticed some people were being unduly harsh and they seemed to be removing THOSE, but as for what you are talking about I never saw that. I did get the vibe that *any* reference to him was being removed, because, frankly, it's not the PLACE on a memorial page for WH to be talking about her killer's proximity (physically or spirituall). *shrug*

People's comfort levels with this can vary...but I also got the impression from reading news articles that they weren't 'next door neighbors' or even located that close to each other in the apt. building...so it's still curious to me.

Okay, I thought that someone mentioned they were RIGHT across the way from one another (things run together now, can't recall if it was a comment or a news article)..yeah, that would make a difference to me...I prob. wouldn't have the neighbor 4 houses down on on the other corner let my dog pee...haha, but across the street yes

 

[manzana]

I wonder what clues her cell phone may have held? It would seem like it had to have something valuable, there were on Holt like white on rice!

 

[laurmac]

His poor parents, his wife, heck, his poor brother! I feel almost as hurt for them as for WH's family and friends I realize there's a whole 'religion aspect' about this...but regardless of your faith, the tragedy, and amount of people this touches (HURTS!) is mind boggling.

It's possible he just became a JW on his own...perhaps his parents never converted?

That's what I was wondering. They are all victims! I can't imagine how they are feeling. I believe his mother lives in CA, so she's not in the area. I wonder if his father was JW, or maybe his wife was and he converted to be with her? Who knows. I admit, I knew hardly anything about the JW faith before this case. What a tight knit group of loving and caring people.

 

[Ashfox]

Ohhh, I haven't been able to keep up on that one (plus this one lol), I noticed some people were being unduly harsh and they seemed to be removing THOSE, but as for what you are talking about I never saw that. I did get the vibe that *any* reference to him was being removed, because, frankly, it's not the PLACE on a memorial page for WH to be talking about her killer's proximity (physically or spirituall). *shrug*



Okay, I thought that someone mentioned they were RIGHT across the way from one another (things run together now, can't recall if it was a comment or a news article)..yeah, that would make a difference to me...I prob. wouldn't have the neighbor 4 houses down on on the other corner let my dog pee...haha, but across the street yes

brotherly and sisterly love i can see them being willing to help someone else out and still not want to hang out around the person but be nice and honestly even though i dont attend meetings ne more i would trust someone who was a JW before i trusted some of my own family lol and i have an awesome family!:twocents:

 

[Knox]

Hi Knox...why does having a gun make sense to you? Just wondering.

A gas station attendant reported that Whitney was in the car with JH at one of those stops made that morning.

How else would he have been able to maintain control of her, in the presence of someone who could have helped her escape?

 

[crazymomof4]

Holt graduated with a 3.35 GPA:

http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/121569-whitney-heichel-died-of-gunshot-wounds

No word on college for either Holt or Heischel, which seems a little odd. Is it typical for Jehovah's Witnesses to not pursue any education after high school?

Personal choice. Most kids who do go to college, chose to go locally and live at home rather than a dorm. I was raised a JW and graduated from college/nursing school in 1985. My good friend (JW) has 2 kids currently in college (Rutgers). That being said, locally we have some very successful self employed JW's who never attended college.

 

[Melancholy]

JMO but crime happens in all religions but its more rare for it to happen within the JW community sadly people are crazy all over no matter what faith and religion I dont think ne one is distancing themselves from the situation but I think more so what they meant is that he doesnt attend regularly I dont even know if he was baptised or not but it just lead me to understand he had some association with the JW faith but not a lot? He did get married at a hall but I just took it as he wasnt active meaning he didnt do witnessing and probably didnt go to bible study or any of the other meetings maybe showed up for passover and that was it? i dunno.

He would have been baptized to have his marriage held inside the Kingdom Hall, but yeah...everything else you mentioned is entirely possible. "Irregular" would refer to someone who doesn't come regularly...we have 2 services per week, someone who came once every 3 weeks, a month would fall into that category.

 

[Elainera]

Maybe Whitney and Colt's wife were friends?

I think it was in the interview Clint gave today that he said that Whitney tried but AH did not respond to it.

 

[Bravo]

I hope things get cleared up as time goes on. I think he had to be watching her and found an opportunity I see WH as being sweet and I think he lured her in some way then once he was in the car confronted her... I wonder how he got in the drivers seat??

I think he waited for her. He lived across the street so would be privy to their coming and goings and habits. Stuck the gun in her back and forced her in. Perhaps made her drive to the first location.

 

[hogwash]

Found JDH's mother. Her name is Nancy, his father must be Chris. His brother's name is Joseph.

Googled and found an obit for JDH's grandfather.

just wondering why is this being put out there? the parents and family members are as innocent as the victim and there is really no reason to post their names on a public forum,,is this even legal??

 

[msthinksalot]

People's comfort levels with this can vary...but I also got the impression from reading news articles that they weren't 'next door neighbors' or even located that close to each other in the apt. building...so it's still curious to me.

Respectfully snipped by me.

Yes, they weren't living in the same building... the Holts lived in a building across the parking lot, per a MSM report. I'll have to go searching to find the exact report.

So yeah... if I needed someone to look in on my place, it'd make much more sense to ask someone next door, obviously, as they would be right there and would see everything going on. That they were asking people across the parking lot implies, IMO/JMO/MOO, that they were maybe not BFFs, but definitely had some sort of casual relationship with one another (maybe through seeing each other at church), some sort of connection that would lead them to ask each other to check in on pets/plants, etc., than their own next-door neighbors.

 

[gngr~snap]

It seems to me anyway,that if he was SO over then moon about WH to the point of stalking her, he would have attended regularly just to see her.

His being an "irregular attendee" points to something else... IMO

Maybe he HAD to work and just couldn't go.
moo

 

[Ashfox]

He would have been baptized to have his marriage held inside the Kingdom Hall, but yeah...everything else you mentioned is entirely possible. "Irregular" would refer to someone who doesn't come regularly...we have 2 services per week, someone who came once every 3 weeks, a month would fall into that category.

Thanks I couldnt remember exactly... :blushing:
Needless to say I dont think he attended regularly and if he is baptised and irregular then there is a very good chance that WH didnt talk to or see him besides just passing. This makes me think more and more that he had been watching her and thought about this before hand. Please let there be justice for Whitney and this man go away for a VERY VERY LONG TIME!lease:

 

[CaringCitizen]

I'm curious about what Holt told his wife that morning about leaving so early. If my husband was up that early and not having to work, I'd be questioning him about where he was going- doing. Most people sleep in on days off from work.

I think Holt had an obsession with Whitney and no one could have her if he didnt and he wanted more and knew he would never have her. It just doesn't make sense that they never really spoke, were casual but not to friendly, and so he should have no reason to be angry with her. They barley knew each other. I think he is selfish and jealous of What Clint had (Whitney) and he was only thinking of himself and what he wanted.

I agree - the wife's story is critical.

But can you imagine being the partner/spouse of someone like this?

The minute that spouse commits a heinous crime, YOUR whole life turns upside down. Every inch of your privacy is now subject to LE knowledge. Every piece of paper in the house, every morsel of a potential diary or a book you started writing, letters to and from friends and family, the food in your pantry, the details of how clean or not each room is, catalogs you ordered, receipts from every purchase, financial records, details about employment, every item in your drawers and closets, every site you ever visited on the Internet, every book you ever read. I mean what a nightmare!

I would hate so much having my privacy turned upside down like that. But LE has to do it as any small thing could be connected to the motive and or other pieces of the crime.

So Holt not only murdered Whitney and imparted an enormous emotional setback in Clint's life, but he also subjected his own wife to weeks if not months on end of an incredible (but necessary) loss of any semblance of privacy.

BTW, I think the Internet searches will be key. I do think he used his wife's account to virtually stalk Whitney via her FB page details - of which it seems from this board - there was a lot to spy on!

I've been wondering if she (Amanda Holt, the wife) can or would visit him in jail. I still have 7 pages to read so perhaps we know already. If she visited, what he did he tell her - and does she believe him?

Manipulators who murder are certainly able to manipulate other women in the process - especially a spouse (and oftentimes the mothers). Who knows what malarkey he is spewing out while sitting across from her in visitation (if they are even doing that).

I thought Holt was very awkward in the wedding photos. The chemistry and love between the two was in no way matched by Clint and Whitney as a couple. After we knew who did it, posters put up a ton of beautiful photos of C&W which spoke volumes to me. The true love shined through and was consistent throughout the photographs. I felt Holt's wife (in the wedding photos) was wanting it to be deeper than she knew it was - many of HIS photos have a childlike insecurity to me. I'm getting off on too many tangents here - sorry.

 

[gngr~snap]

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Repo...d-from-multiple-gunshot-wounds-175262191.html

Sources: Whitney Heichel was sexually assaulted before being killed

oh well... looks like she was stalked.

 

[Suzvw]

Hi Pixel...you're thinking of Alpha High School maybe? That's on NE 8th in downtown Gresham...near the county offices and DHS.

 

[Melancholy]

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Repo...d-from-multiple-gunshot-wounds-175262191.html

Sources: Whitney Heichel was sexually assaulted before being killed

oh well... looks like she was stalked.

I anticipated this, but it still makes my heart sink and the tears well up.