GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #3

[Melancholy]

I am having a few problems too!
This is STILL not adding up!

OK. They found JH's prints in her suv.
What else did they find?
<snip>
That was no big deal to me until I heard CH state he helped JH
jump start his bike and that he and Whitney had fed his cats before,
<snip>
Why is LE been given reasons for CH's prints to be in the perps home and on his bike as well?

Did LE find CH's prints on JH's bike?
Did they find prints or dna in JH's home from Whitney or Clint?

I don't think there was an effort on the LE's part to "explain" or "reason out" why WH and CH's prints may be in JH's home, nor do I see why it would matter...it was mentioned as a way to explain there was a familiarity between the couples, that while they weren't 'best friends' they surely weren't strangers.

Also in the quick interview yesterday morning with CH, said "Whitney didn't deserve this."

??? I guess I would have rather heard him say "Whitney didn't deserve THAT."
"She didn't do anything to deserve this. It's just ... why? That's the only question. Why?"
<snip>

IMO, when something affects you, you use possessive, familiar term..."My wife was raped and murdered"... THIS HAPPENED to Clint..... "My neighbors wife was raped and murdered"...'She' didn't deserve that.....

This crime happened to HIM too, not just WH...Using the phase "she didn't deserve that" would feel like he was detached, talking about the neighbor down the way, or the lady across the country...not his wife. This is his reality.



Call me naive, but the fact that JH has told them he forced her to perform oral sex and then shot her...he said it, he confessed, he has given details, why on earth people are still speculating (not you specifically gngr~snap, I respectfully mean ANYONE) that somehow it was anything other than what the PERP has confessed and LE has confirmed, I don't understand. I mean of course, there are details we aren't aware of yet, because they aren't released, and perhaps I"m a bit dense, but 'media' sensation aside, my own personal feelings aside, the facts that have been given out by LE and JH (not counting the accounts of family and friends), there's no doubt in my mind he did this, he acted alone and he is responsible.

 

[gngr~snap]

I don't think there was an effort on the LE's part to "explain" or "reason out" why WH and CH's prints may be in JH's home, nor do I see why it would matter...it was mentioned as a way to explain there was a familiarity between the couples, that while they weren't 'best friends' they surely weren't strangers.



IMO, when something affects you, you use possessive, familiar term..."My wife was raped and murdered"... THIS HAPPENED to Clint..... "My neighbors wife was raped and murdered"...'She' didn't deserve that.....

This crime happened to HIM too, not just WH...Using the phase "she didn't deserve that" would feel like he was detached, talking about the neighbor down the way, or the lady across the country...not his wife. This is his reality.



Call me naive, but the JH has told them he forced her to perform oral sex and then shot her...he said it, he confessed, he has given details, why on earth people are still speculating (not you specifically gngr~snap, I respectfully mean ANYONE) that somehow it was anything other than what the PERP has confessed and LE has confirmed, I don't understand. I mean of course, there are details we aren't aware of yet, because they aren't released, and perhaps I"m a bit dense, but 'media' sensation aside, my own personal feelings aside, the facts that have been given out by LE and JH (not counting the accounts of family and friends), there's no doubt in my mind he did this, he acted alone and he is responsible.

Ok! What you said makes sense.
I was just thinking if it were my hubby, I'd say he didn't deserve that.

But I get it.


If LE took prints from the suv, The girl that parked her suv would need to explain why her prints were in it.

The same goes for Clint and Whitney.

If LE found Clints prints on JH's bike they would ask him why and he would say, I helped him jump start it a while back.

If LE found Whitney's prints in the apartment, they would ask Clint if she had ever been inside of it before.-to his knowledge.

DNA and fingerprints have come a long way.
Kinda scary when you think about it... (having contact with someone prior to a crime and your prints were found)

I am too suspicious, I know that! :blushing:

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

No, nobody said they think Clint is involved. He isn't involved. JH confessed and told his story to LE, now they will put the truth together using his story and the evidence. Maybe he will plea out and a trial can be avoided. Hopefully, Clint will get support and privacy so he can grieve and begin to heal.
jmo

Thanks for clarifying; I was pretty sure I'd read that current opinion of LE was that Clint was not involved.

It does if they have his DNA in her vehicle and evidence that points to him as the perp, along with his confirmation of certain details that only the killer would know. I would say they pretty much have it wrapped up.

Well, it sounds like it on a forum, but--imo, fingerprint DNA on a steering wheel and a confession from someone in a suicide jacket--does not convince me. With a crime this messy there should be more than fingerprints/DNA on the steering wheel to implicate this guy (especially with the jumpstart two weeks ago). The murder weapon recovery is always key in a murder trial--almost as key as recovery of the body. Like white rabbit below, I'm stymied by some gaps that bother me, even if I wanted to see this wrapped up.

well i'm stumped. it took me all morning to catch up and i'm still not seeing anything from MSM or LE to explain this:

- according to the affidavit, there is no mention of the gas stop. why? and no confirmation of clint's bank record transactions? surely these are key pieces of the timeline and confession.

- the affidavit doesn't mention the broken window either. when was it shattered and where?

http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/holtpc.pdf

- dna was found on the steering wheel...ok i get that. but between the multiple gunshot wounds in one location, the transport, and the body discard, wouldn't there have been massive (and i mean massive) amounts of blood all over the car, etc? there's no mention of it. i find that odd. to me that's the most telling of all evidence and they knew that from day one when the search party and LE canvassed dodge & larch.

he was sloppy, disorganized, frenzied...but there are still missing pieces of the puzzle. IMO. ...(snipped)...my frustration is showing. TIA.

I share your unrest/confusion--the fact that this seems so incredibly sloppy in some ways (even outright stupid), yet no blood evidence mentioned at the park, in the car, or wherever it was that she was shot--and no gun recovered (that we know of) means the jury's not out on this one for me. ;-) A confession from a man with no priors who's clearly on the verge of cracking up doesn't sway it for me, either. I'm not ruling out that he was on the scene, but I'm not jumping to the first conclusion, either.

 

[Melancholy]

<respectfully snipped>

If LE found Whitney's prints in the apartment, they would ask Clint if she had ever been inside of it before.-to his knowledge.

DNA and fingerprints have come a long way.
Kinda scary when you think about it... (having contact with someone prior to a crime and your prints were found)

I am too suspicious, I know that! :blushing:

*shudder* yes, I smell what yer' a'cookin!!

 

[msthinksalot]

well i'm stumped. it took me all morning to catch up and i'm still not seeing anything from MSM or LE to explain this:

- according to the affidavit, there is no mention of the gas stop. why? and no confirmation of clint's bank record transactions? surely these are key pieces of the timeline and confession.

- the affidavit doesn't mention the broken window either. when was it shattered and where?

http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/holtpc.pdf

- dna was found on the steering wheel...ok i get that. but between the multiple gunshot wounds in one location, the transport, and the body discard, wouldn't there have been massive (and i mean massive) amounts of blood all over the car, etc? there's no mention of it. i find that odd. to me that's the most telling of all evidence and they knew that from day one when the search party and LE canvassed dodge & larch.

he was sloppy, disorganized, frenzied...but there are still missing pieces of the puzzle. IMO. no i don't think he was in cahoots with anyone, but who was the woman in the passenger seat at the gas station if whitney was laid in the back???

and has she been interviewed?

sorry if this has been discussed...my frustration is showing. TIA.

An arrest affidavit is simply to explain LE's probable cause for arrest and lodging a person in jail. It lists known facts and it lists observations and, in the instance the person has already given a statement to the police, it may state that generally, there were inconsistencies that led to the officer determining there was probable cause to make an arrest.

As a rule, an arrest affidavit does not list multiple layers of forensic evidence LE may or may not have in a particular case.

What is important is the concept of probable cause. Probable cause consists of two parts: first, an officer must believe a crime has been committed and that a person or thing is subject to seizure (arrest); and second, that the officer's belief must be objectively reasonable under the circumstances.

In Holt's case, he told the police what he did, where he did it, how he did it. There is no reason, at this point in time, for police to be laying out every single bit of evidence they may have... all of that will come out at trial (if there is one).

IMO, though, I think the floor mats were up on top of the seat to either hide blood or collect blood. I think LE has all the evidence they need to allow this to be prosecuted fully, and I think they aren't releasing this information to the public.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I am having a few problems too!
This is STILL not adding up!

OK. They found JH's prints in her suv.
What else did they find?

We have the grl that parked her suv for her explain
why her prints would be in it.

That was no big deal to me until I heard CH state he helped JH
jump start his bike and that he and Whitney had fed his cats before,

I admit I am jaded from all these cases.

Why is LE been given reasons for CH's prints to be in the perps home and on his bike as well?

Did LE find CH's prints on JH's bike?
Did they find prints or dna in JH's home from Whitney or Clint?

Also in the quick interview yesterday morning with CH, said "Whitney didn't deserve this."

??? I guess I would have rather heard him say "Whitney didn't deserve THAT."

All they evidence just dumped in trash cans...
Along with where the phones were found... Hers was meant to be found. JH's was not. IMO.
:waitasec:

:twocents::moo:


"She didn't do anything to deserve this. It's just ... why? That's the only question. Why?"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/murdered-barista-whitney-heichel-raped-shot-times/story?id=17534209

Yes, a lot of backstory has been supplied right from the start (and repeated in the media) that would explain the odd presence of prints in places one might not expect them for vehicles likely involved. That puzzles me. The mentioning of "this" vs. "that" doesn't bother me so much as just the whole interview seeming off somehow...

"It's very difficult," he said. "Waking up is hard. This morning I lost it. Last night, I lost it"

"It's completely unfair to me. It's even more unfair to her," he said "She didn't deserve it. She didn't do anything wrong."

From:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/She-didnt-deserve-it-She-didnt-do-anything-wrong-175307541.html

I can honestly say in my 58 years I've never heard a family member mention how unfair the loved one's death was "to me." Just odd, that's all; please do NOT take this as insinuation of any sort other than 'just odd.'

 

[gngr~snap]

I thought they were the same age. Is CH really 28?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/murdered-barista-whitney-heichel-raped-shot-times/story?id=17534209

No I'm not going anywhere with this. My 21 yr old is dating a 27 yr old...

I just really thought they were high school sweet hearts (or something close)

 

[pixel.graphics]

Yes, a lot of backstory has been supplied right from the start (and repeated in the media) that would explain the odd presence of prints in places one might not expect them for vehicles likely involved. That puzzles me. The mentioning of "this" vs. "that" doesn't bother me so much as just the whole interview seeming off somehow...

"It's very difficult," he said. "Waking up is hard. This morning I lost it. Last night, I lost it"

"It's completely unfair to me. It's even more unfair to her," he said "She didn't deserve it. She didn't do anything wrong."

From:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/She-didnt-deserve-it-She-didnt-do-anything-wrong-175307541.html

I can honestly say in my 58 years I've never heard a family member mention how unfair the loved one's death was "to me." Just odd, that's all; please do NOT take this as insinuation of any sort other than 'just odd.'

I'm sad the husband's words are getting picked apart, so I'll play his side in this.

this vs that - I think he said it that way because when a person is "in" the situation, they use the word "this". He is clearly within the horror of the situation still. In a few days, months, whatever, I can see the tense being "that" because it shows a distance of time.

as for it being unfair... I'd say that is a call out to God. Like, we are good people, we don't deserve this. It's unfair. I can see why he said that. It is unfair.

 

[OldSteve]

Holt sexually assaulted then shot Whitney Heichel -
http://www.katu.com/news/local/Repo...d-from-multiple-gunshot-wounds-175262191.html

Heichel, who knew Holt, obliged. About five minutes into the ride, police said Holt pulled out a handgun and forced Heichel to drive to Roslyn Lake in Clackamas County.

Sorry if this was already posted, allot in the article.

 

[darmela]

I thought they were the same age. Is CH really 28?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/murdered-barista-whitney-heichel-raped-shot-times/story?id=17534209

No I'm not going anywhere with this. My 21 yr old is dating a 27 yr old...

I just really thought they were high school sweet hearts (or something close)

Yes, Clint is 28.

 

[OldSteve]

"Whitney's husband Clint Heichel said he helped Holt jump-start his motorcycle recently and they looked after Holt's cats and plants when the Holts were away -
http://www.katu.com/news/local/Repo...d-from-multiple-gunshot-wounds-175262191.html

So that's the thanks they get! How maddening!
Difficult to believe this is Holt's first offense - is he just plain stupid and nuts?

Taking a beautiful life; for what? Did he think he would get away with it?

 

[Ashfox]

Yes, a lot of backstory has been supplied right from the start (and repeated in the media) that would explain the odd presence of prints in places one might not expect them for vehicles likely involved. That puzzles me. The mentioning of "this" vs. "that" doesn't bother me so much as just the whole interview seeming off somehow...

"It's very difficult," he said. "Waking up is hard. This morning I lost it. Last night, I lost it"

"It's completely unfair to me. It's even more unfair to her," he said "She didn't deserve it. She didn't do anything wrong."

From:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/She-didnt-deserve-it-She-didnt-do-anything-wrong-175307541.html


I can honestly say in my 58 years I've never heard a family member mention how unfair the loved one's death was "to me." Just odd, that's all; please do NOT take this as insinuation of any sort other than 'just odd.'

I dont think its strange coming from a man who in my mind 100% saw WH as the person he would spend the rest of his life with no matter what I am sure he felt like his soul mate was taken away and that it was very unfair because his life would never be the same again I am sure they had many many plans all of which will no longer be able to come true and maybe he finds that unfair.... JMO

 

[sissylala]

That puzzles me. The mentioning of "this" vs. "that" doesn't bother me so much as just the whole interview seeming off somehow...

"It's very difficult," he said. "Waking up is hard. This morning I lost it. Last night, I lost it"

"It's completely unfair to me. It's even more unfair to her," he said "She didn't deserve it. She didn't do anything wrong."

From:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/She-didnt-deserve-it-She-didnt-do-anything-wrong-175307541.html

I can honestly say in my 58 years I've never heard a family member mention how unfair the loved one's death was "to me." Just odd, that's all; please do NOT take this as insinuation of any sort other than 'just odd.'

I think having your wife raped and murdered by a neighbor is odd. Any reaction to that would therefore be odd. There is no normal reaction to this.

MOO, he might have been caught in a moment of self pity, because now he is alone. His beautiful wife was suddenly taken from him in a terrible way I think he’s allowed a couple of sentences expresses that.

 

[sissylala]

I think having your wife raped and murdered by a neighbor is odd. Any reaction to that would therefore be odd. There is no normal reaction to this.

MOO, he might have been caught in a moment of self pity, because now he is alone. His beautiful wife was suddenly taken from him in a terrible way I think he’s allowed a couple of sentences expresses that.

Also I just read the story again... from the context of his comments it's clear he's trying to say how feel wants to express gratitude to everyone supporting him but because he is having such a hard time emotionally doesn't feel he can thank everyone properly.

His line of thought is much clearer when you take into account his previous comments.

"There's so many people who won't get a personal thanks from me and I wish I could give them a personal thanks. It's very difficult," he said. "Waking up is hard. This morning I lost it. Last night, I lost it"

"It's completely unfair to me. It's even more unfair to her," he said "She didn't deserve it. She didn't do anything wrong."

 

[gngr~snap]

Was CH "off" Oct 16th or was he home sick that day?

I have seen it reported both ways.


If he was sick that day the I have two points.

That makes more sense about Whitney's boss asking if she "decided to be sick today"
(or however it was worded)

It also makes me wonder if Clint's "illness" could have been a part oF JH's "plan"
knowing Clint was sick helped give him opportunity to nab WH

 

[Ashfox]

I pray none of us have to face a similar situation I have no clue how I would react to anything at all whether I was the victim or a loved one was I dont know if I would remember to kick and scream if someone had a gun to me or if I would go along out of fear I dont know if I would talk to the media or if I would hide out I dont know if I could control what I said or if I would go off on a crazy tangent. IMO I think that some doubt that JH did this alone and we are all welcome to speculate on what happened as long as its within WS guidelines but with life terrible things happen and we all react differently whats strange to one is not strange to another but whats nice about this site is that we can all discuss it and share our own experiences!

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I'm sad the husband's words are getting picked apart, so I'll play his side in this.

this vs that - I think he said it that way because when a person is "in" the situation, they use the word "this". He is clearly within the horror of the situation still. In a few days, months, whatever, I can see the tense being "that" because it shows a distance of time.

as for it being unfair... I'd say that is a call out to God. Like, we are good people, we don't deserve this. It's unfair. I can see why he said that. It is unfair.

I'm sorry if it looks like I'm picking apart his words. One comment in isolation doesn't really say anything, really; little things only mean something (if anything) in a larger context. I've had that intense feeling ("this is unfair, God") at traumatic times in my life; just wouldn't probably share it publicly when I'm going through it (at least not to media). But people are all different.

 

[Ashfox]

Was CH "off" Oct 16th or was he home sick that day?

I have seen it reported both ways.


If he was sick that day the I have two points.

That makes more sense about Whitney's boss asking if she "decided to be sick today"
(or however it was worded)

It also makes me wonder if Clint's "illness" could have been a part oF JH's "plan"
knowing Clint was sick helped give him opportunity to nab WH

JMO but I think that WH probably left around the same time each day to head to work and I think that if CH walked her out that day JH would have sulked off back to his house and waited for an opportunity to come back and try again... I dont know anything about CH job or hours I know my hubby works 14 hours a day and comes in anywhere from 12 am to 5 am depending on the time I always give him a kiss and say goodbye and he cracks open an eye and a little love you then goes right back to sleep. I think that JH just wanted to catch her alone and if he didnt do it that day he would find another

 

[Ashfox]

When he has his court date on Friday what will most likely happen? He has confessed is this pretty cut and dry? I am not familiar with the process.

 

[kodi]

I'm sad the husband's words are getting picked apart, so I'll play his side in this.

this vs that - I think he said it that way because when a person is "in" the situation, they use the word "this". He is clearly within the horror of the situation still. In a few days, months, whatever, I can see the tense being "that" because it shows a distance of time.

as for it being unfair... I'd say that is a call out to God. Like, we are good people, we don't deserve this. It's unfair. I can see why he said that. It is unfair.

I agree with your sentiments, pixel.graphics.

I feel we must remember Clint is grieving and there is no right or wrong when it comes to the grieving process. Individuals trying to navigate such a difficult road are not given a roadmap on how to do this.

Grief is a unique experience to each individual and my heart breaks for those that now have to work through their own grief, complicated by the tragic circumstances of Whitney's final moments. It most assuredly is a life-altering event for her family & friends and even those who were simply touched by her life after she went missing, IMO.