GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

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Being local to the Gresham area, I work with a fellow JW who actually knows CH, WH, JDH and AH. While I have not talked to my co-worker personally, I have heard some of what he has said about their past through another co-worker he has talked to. Obviously I am not able to back-up any of this information, so I'm not sure if it's okay to post or not. He has a family member that is an Elder, knows more about WH and AH's relationship and a couple other little details. It's hear-say, but could be considered interesting. Let me know...

I also just realized that the rental house JDH went to look at is just a couple houses away from the house I grew up in. My heart is breaking for the whole family and community.
 
No offense MySweetRiley, but that's about enough of that. While reasonable to assume, there has been no mention of pornographic addiction on the part of JH. Your posts are starting to sound like you have personal experience with a sex/*advertiser censored* addicted person. I feel for you. But please, that's enough.

True. Nobody has said there is a *advertiser censored* addiction. But I think it is pretty well established that most sex offenders do have *advertiser censored* addictions. MO.
 
I’m not sure about the cases you’re referencing, I am referring to the practice of web sleuthing in general. Facts can come from a variety of sources -- public documents, court docs, press releases, photos, maps, business records, property records. As well as weather, proximity, time/timing, place, and a variety of logistical considerations. All of these are sources for facts for individual cases. In Whitney’s case, there are plenty of verifiable facts to sleuth. The timeline, place, and proximity alone are enough to keep on sleuthing. In active cases of course not all facts are given to the public - nor should they be.

In my opinion, if there is an official public document on probable cause -- you work the details of that document, however scant they may be. Where people run into trouble is when they don't cite sources or get the info wrong and no one corrects them. Or theorize with no factual basis. Those are the root of poor quality results and criticism.

Respectfully, the majority of the members here at WS are not LE professionals. We are regular Joes who for varying reasons have an interest in crimes, trials, the missing and unidentified.

In addition to the many many posts where members have unearthed records, data, photos, etc. that were important pieces of the puzzle (at least for those of us not privy to LE findings), there have been put forth some brilliant theories, some of which proved to be spot on. And who knows? Maybe LE was given a new way to look at a case because of a poster here.

I am under the impression that WSers are free to theorize and postulate under TOS. I sincerely doubt that a "wrong" theory posted by an amateur Sleuther on an internet forum would derail or clog up a police investigation. If a portion of what is put together and posted here is helpful to the LE reading along, then wonderful! But I think that tossing about theories and possible scenarios is part of what we do and it is just fine. :) We are just armchair sleuths.
 
Being local to the Gresham area, I work with a fellow JW who actually knows CH, WH, JDH and AH. While I have not talked to my co-worker personally, I have heard some of what he has said about their past through other co-workers. Obviously I am not able to back-up any of this information, so I'm not sure if it's okay to post or not.

I also just realized that the rental house JDH went to look at is just a couple houses away from the house I grew up in. My heart is breaking for the whole family and community.

Your friend's head must be spinning.
 
Good grief, if anything ever happens to me or my husband, the other one would be in big trouble, at least with the public. I don't think we have even had our photo taken together since our wedding, over 18 years ago...we both hate having our pictures taken; people who know would know that, but from the outside, I am sure it would take on very sinister implications, that is, if my internet history was not enough...

Lol, I was just thinking this!

On the outside Mr. Knot and I look like a boring, 40 something couple with a child, non-exciting jobs, etc. There aren't many pics of us as a couple because one of us is usually taking the picture, lol. One of us at a time with my daughter, ya know. We probably have more pics of food we have cooked than of us. ;). Yawn!

But lemme tell you, we are over the moon in love with each other and things get pretty steamy for a couple of old goats. Love letters, the whole enchilada. (Hmm food again)

I think pictures sometimes show what the photographer wants us to see, and sometimes the pictures are just a glimpse of whatever there was time to snap, and sometimes YES, they show us some very telling things that weren't captured intentionally.

It's awfully subjective though.
 
Lol, not a problem at all, because this is a place for respectful discussion even if opposing opinions are in place.

But since you mentioned it, you do seem to be voicing support for JH. And again- he hasn't gone to trial yet so if ever there was a place to pose the "but what if he didn't do it" questions, this is it! :)

Honestly, I think the guy is guilty as sin but there are some GAPING holes in this whole story and I'm anxious to sew 'em up.

still trying to catch up, but i'm with you frayed...gaping holes drive me bananas.

from a link already posted:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/175511261.html

"On a side note, we learned that one of the reasons that the church was so successful in finding clues about Heichel's disappearance at remote locations is that one of its members is experienced in search and rescue operations and guided the effort."

so maybe an answer to at least one question (why the JW community knew where and when to search) lies in the above explanation?
 
Oh I don't think she's "trying" to prove innocence but probably in that religon it's expected that you have a certain image. Are they JW allowed to drink? If not and she did obviously she won't be posting that pic on FB.

Yes JWs can drink, perhaps you are thinking of Mormons...and no there is no "appearance" to keep up. There is no image of perfection the congregation would look down on if you were missing it. I have a couple who are friends to my husband and I right now running through a gamut of marital problems and the Elders in our congregation are trying to support them, encourage them and give them the help they want/need. Certainly and absolutely NOT looking down on them

Edit to add: And we are privy to the fact that they have troubles because they have talked to us, as friends. Not that everyone's problems are made public and aired out....hate to have to state that, but you never know what people might assume, I am learning LOL
 
The time it takes from their apt. complex to Hogan Road, the Road listed on the court document, might take only 3 minutes, but it can take 5 minutes if you get caught at one of the 3 lights. Hwy 26 turns into Burnside Street. I am sure at most her work was only 3 minutes from her apartment.

If it is true that he pulled the gun on her at Hogan Street (aka 242nd St), then they would have to loop back around to get out to Dodge Park. When you go NW on Hwy 26/Burnside and you have to hang a right on Hogan Street, you can't turn left at that stop light. So the path I am assuming they took, would probably have to be North Hogan/242nd , right on Division, then either go straight on Division til you hit 302nd, right there, South to Lusted Road, then a Left on Lusted out to Dodge Park. That is about a 30 minute drive. But the court documents claim that the crime was committed on Thompson Road at South Roslyn Lake. Add another ten minutes up the windy road. Probably 40 minutes. The South end of Roslyn Lake has water I believe because of the natural springs and rain. The majority of the lake used to be filled up by the Little Sandy River and a water chute from Marmot Dam until they let the lake go dry a few years back. Now the North Road on the Lake is usually the busiest, because of fisherman and locals going to and from Sandy and the fishing spot at the Sandy Hatchery. I believe there is a Fire Station on that road. Now Thompson Road you have to actually go out of your way to go on the other side of the lake. Probably less traffic. If I remember correctly, when the lake was filled, there would be a line of fisherman up on the dirt wall in their chairs. When the lake got drained I am assuming all of the fish went as well, so there was only a small marsh left on the South end of the Lake where he threw his phone in and committed the crime.

Now the fact that he dumped evidence at Dodge Park baffled me, because of all of the fishermen there this time of year. It is prime Coho Season, with some Native Chinook and Summer Steelhead running. I was at Dodge Park a few days before this incident, on Sunday and the water was a bit murky but there were still a descent number of fishermen. About 10am the early fishermen are gone, then the after church or late bloomers head to the river, so you get a different crowd. Monday was a lot of rain, so that probably blew out the river and made it unfishable on Tuesday AM. But there are always the dedicated few on the river. Dodge park does have honeybucket bathrooms and I am not sure if they closed down the regular bathrooms. It would be tough to know if those cans were JH, or if they were left from someone else. I have had to jump over a lot of debris walking down to the river to fish. I am not sure where the LE found the evidence, but if it was toward the back of the park, I am sure that the fishermen didn't pay much attention, because you pull in the park and you are right at the river and parking lot. There is a road that takes you to the back, but I am not sure how they have that set up back there.

Now heading to Larch Mountain, I believe you can take Lusted Road West and a right on 302nd and that takes you to the back way without having to go through town, to the old Columbia Scenic Highway which in turn takes you to Larch Mountain area. So JH probably just used the 302nd Route , because it goes by farms and throws you out near Dabney Park.(Going North on 302nd turns into Kerslake Rd, before it hits Stark Street) I can not give you the timing on Dodge Park to Larch Mountain, because I have never been up there, but google maps might give you an idea. I am not sure if he gassed up before or after Larch Mountain. Either way the gas station is on top of the hill and he can turn around and go back down Stark Street toward Larch Mtn way.

As far as the Black Explorer. The first thing I noticed in the picture as well was the back tires muddy and the front ones pretty clean. That led me to believe that he had backed in to a muddy ledge or off road to hide the remains. Front tires on solid ground. As far as the license plate. I believe he ripped it off to hide the identity of the vehicle. I believe there might have been an Amber Alert that morning, Would have to be after CH called it in.

When JH parked the car at Walmart he knew the area, because he worked at Subway in the area up until last Summer. (Troutdale Outlet Mall) He probably walked up Wood Village Exit, through some trails near Mcmenammins (Halsey Street), threw the phone in the bushes and he was probably right at the bus stop near the apartments on 257th/Terrace Apts. 257th just happens to be a bus stop, near his old workplace. I am sure when he didn't have his bike he took the bus. I figured when they found the phone that it might be someone trying to return back to the apartment area via bus.

This is all speculation, but I thought I would throw my two cents in since it has affected our community so deeply. I did not know WH personally, but I had met her a few times at the drive thru and she was a very bright spirited warm lady. Our community is definitely shocked and saddened by her loss.

Sasquatch, thank you SO MUCH for this excellent information!
 
I cant even begin to imagine the terror poor Whitney felt on that drive. What he said to her etc. etc. I wish i could get it out of my head. Perhaps typing it will help :banghead:
 
http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/3392_001.pdf

In the police report from 8/18/11--I found the wording from JDH interesting as to why he needed time away. He says he had a mental breakdown and needed "one on one time". Maybe it's just me, but I'd say "alone time". One on one implies another person in his company. JMO.

I too find that wording odd if he were alone.

Also, if that is a current cell number listed on the report, methinks it has a full mailbox right about now :what:

Edit: Ugh, his wife's cell number is listed too...poor thing...this wasn't that long ago, I bet her phone is blowing up if it's still current :(
 
http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/3392_001.pdf

In the police report from 8/18/11--I found the wording from JDH interesting as to why he needed time away. He says he had a mental breakdown and needed "one on one time". Maybe it's just me, but I'd say "alone time". One on one implies another person in his company. JMO.

ohhh also in reading the report, JH's wife is reported as saying (Regarding if JH was capable of stealing his friend's car and laptop) that she would have a hard time saying anyone wasn't capable of it.

Um, sorry, but if that was asked about my husband, lol I would say "absolutely no way" because there is not a doubt in my MIND that my husband would NEVER do that, not to a friend, and not to a stranger!
 
The time it takes from their apt. complex to Hogan Road, the Road listed on the court document, might take only 3 minutes, but it can take 5 minutes if you get caught at one of the 3 lights. Hwy 26 turns into Burnside Street. I am sure at most her work was only 3 minutes from her apartment.

If it is true that he pulled the gun on her at Hogan Street (aka 242nd St), then they would have to loop back around to get out to Dodge Park. When you go NW on Hwy 26/Burnside and you have to hang a right on Hogan Street, you can't turn left at that stop light. So the path I am assuming they took, would probably have to be North Hogan/242nd , right on Division, then either go straight on Division til you hit 302nd, right there, South to Lusted Road, then a Left on Lusted out to Dodge Park. That is about a 30 minute drive. But the court documents claim that the crime was committed on Thompson Road at South Roslyn Lake. Add another ten minutes up the windy road. Probably 40 minutes. The South end of Roslyn Lake has water I believe because of the natural springs and rain. The majority of the lake used to be filled up by the Little Sandy River and a water chute from Marmot Dam until they let the lake go dry a few years back. Now the North Road on the Lake is usually the busiest, because of fisherman and locals going to and from Sandy and the fishing spot at the Sandy Hatchery. I believe there is a Fire Station on that road. Now Thompson Road you have to actually go out of your way to go on the other side of the lake. Probably less traffic. If I remember correctly, when the lake was filled, there would be a line of fisherman up on the dirt wall in their chairs. When the lake got drained I am assuming all of the fish went as well, so there was only a small marsh left on the South end of the Lake where he threw his phone in and committed the crime.

Now the fact that he dumped evidence at Dodge Park baffled me, because of all of the fishermen there this time of year. It is prime Coho Season, with some Native Chinook and Summer Steelhead running. I was at Dodge Park a few days before this incident, on Sunday and the water was a bit murky but there were still a descent number of fishermen. About 10am the early fishermen are gone, then the after church or late bloomers head to the river, so you get a different crowd. Monday was a lot of rain, so that probably blew out the river and made it unfishable on Tuesday AM. But there are always the dedicated few on the river. Dodge park does have honeybucket bathrooms and I am not sure if they closed down the regular bathrooms. It would be tough to know if those cans were JH, or if they were left from someone else. I have had to jump over a lot of debris walking down to the river to fish. I am not sure where the LE found the evidence, but if it was toward the back of the park, I am sure that the fishermen didn't pay much attention, because you pull in the park and you are right at the river and parking lot. There is a road that takes you to the back, but I am not sure how they have that set up back there.

Now heading to Larch Mountain, I believe you can take Lusted Road West and a right on 302nd and that takes you to the back way without having to go through town, to the old Columbia Scenic Highway which in turn takes you to Larch Mountain area. So JH probably just used the 302nd Route , because it goes by farms and throws you out near Dabney Park.(Going North on 302nd turns into Kerslake Rd, before it hits Stark Street) I can not give you the timing on Dodge Park to Larch Mountain, because I have never been up there, but google maps might give you an idea. I am not sure if he gassed up before or after Larch Mountain. Either way the gas station is on top of the hill and he can turn around and go back down Stark Street toward Larch Mtn way.

As far as the Black Explorer. The first thing I noticed in the picture as well was the back tires muddy and the front ones pretty clean. That led me to believe that he had backed in to a muddy ledge or off road to hide the remains. Front tires on solid ground. As far as the license plate. I believe he ripped it off to hide the identity of the vehicle. I believe there might have been an Amber Alert that morning, Would have to be after CH called it in.

When JH parked the car at Walmart he knew the area, because he worked at Subway in the area up until last Summer. (Troutdale Outlet Mall) He probably walked up Wood Village Exit, through some trails near Mcmenammins (Halsey Street), threw the phone in the bushes and he was probably right at the bus stop near the apartments on 257th/Terrace Apts. 257th just happens to be a bus stop, near his old workplace. I am sure when he didn't have his bike he took the bus. I figured when they found the phone that it might be someone trying to return back to the apartment area via bus.

This is all speculation, but I thought I would throw my two cents in since it has affected our community so deeply. I did not know WH personally, but I had met her a few times at the drive thru and she was a very bright spirited warm lady. Our community is definitely shocked and saddened by her loss.

Wow, excellent post! The route makes sense to me even though I don't know the area. I agree with your thoughts on the Black Explorer, too, now that I've seen the photo with the muddy back wheels. From the position of the parking of the car at Walmart, I'm also reasoning the front plate was the missing one (even though it seems the rear plate would be the one you'd want off on a highway where police are out looking for your plate. More visible.) And since the front end was clean, it doesn't seem likely it would have come off maneuvering in the brush, so I am now back to thinking it was taken off. (Also because no mention of the plastic plate holder also having been broken off with the plate like it would if tangled up in the brush.) The parking position (backed in close to bushes) also makes it appear purposeful that the only end visible would be the end without the plate--as though the perp knew the plate was off. If he'd lost it in the mountain accidentally it's unlikely he'd have accidentally also discovered it was missing by the time he maneuvered that parking at Walmart.

But, if we conclude the plate was taken off by the perp:

1) it does appear to make the timing pretty tight. In your plotting out the sequence above, where do the ATM stops fit in?

"Several transactions were made on Heichel's debit card the morning she went missing, including once at a gas station at 9:14 am and again at ATM machines and other gas stations at 9:22 am and 9:30 am, according to police. According to a missing person flyer, a gas station attendant at one of the stations said he remembered seeing her SUV and said Heichel was sitting in the passenger seat with a man driving. The man reportedly bought a small amount of gas."

From: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ishes-during-five-minute-commute-to-work?lite

2) why was the plate taken off and left there?

All the other evidence was scattered away from the mountain where the body was hidden. IF the plate was taken off to evade police alerted by the Amber alert, then...

a) why the front plate? (the rear is more visible to others traveling on the road in that it gives more reading time than the front plate seen briefly from the other side of the road)

b) why not keep the removed plate in the car and take it back into town to discard it somewhere so that the body would not be found as easily? (Finding the body and the weapon are the two things that most speed up finding the perp.)

I'm no killer, but I'm trying to get into the head of the perp here, and it's just not making sense, still. Purposefully leaving that one key clue up on the mountain instead of easily bringing it down with him...it's almost as though he wanted the body to be found before too much time passed.
 
I'm really bothered by the nit-picking in the last thread over Clint's choice of words "this" vs. "that". It wasn't a murder-for-hire, he has no involvement other than being a victim by virtue of his wife, whom he closely loved murdered. Even those who questioned whether he smiled or not- if you watched the press conference, as I did, you clearly saw a man broken up in pain and publicly sobbing. He couldn't speak, this was genuine emotion, not faked. We need to cut him some slack. I'm not a JW, but I can feel his pain, he's entitled to be a little selfish right now, this monster has prematurely ripped his whole world apart. Whitney was only 21. This was the woman Clint planned on having a family and a life with! Plus, in moments of grief, people may not word things perfectly, heck they don't even always speak properly in every day life. My pet peeve is the incorrect usage of the terms "effect" vs. "affect".
I wanted to add, I understand that from all the crime we follow here at WS, we get a little jaded.Oftentimes, it is the husband. Patsy Ramsey did use the term "that child" referring to her dead daughter, but she was a suspect, and Casey Anthony's tears on the stand were faked, no actual liquid. Clint's tears were real, and he is the exact opposite- he actually loved his wife.

Well said! I just began going through this new thread and saw your post, and it made me think of how early on in the Mickey Shunick case her BF, the last person to see her was picked upon because of the way he acted in a news conference. Viewing his video is a good lesson in why actions of those close to a loved are difficult to read and figure out. I'll look for that video and post a link here...
 
Forgive me, but what does MSM mean? I've seen it mentioned several times over the last week.
 
Did anyone else notice this from the link provided earlier?
http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon?fId=175490841&fPath=/home&fDomain=10202

_____________________________

In this latest twist, a police report just obtained by KGW shows that back on August 18, 2011, Holt’s friend, Nathan Bargas reported him missing to police after he vanished, along with Bargas' rental car.

Bargas told the investigating officer at the time that the two had gone shopping together. He said Holt decided to stay in the car while Bargas went inside the Best Buy on NW Norman Avenue in Gresham. But when Bargas came out of the store, both Holt and the car were gone.

The police report said the officer asked Bargas if he thought John had stolen his car and Nathan said "this was very out of character for John, as he had just completed his EMT training and was a well-known and trusted friend."

The officer then called Holt's wife. She said she had no idea where John was and began the process of filing a missing person report.

Just before 1 a.m. the next day and nearly 12 hours after he vanished, Holt resurfaced, according to the police report, and knocked on Bargas' back door.

Bargas said that Holt apologized for taking his car and told him he had a “mental breakdown” and "needed time to rethink his life and straighten his priorities."

The police report said that Holt later told the officer he had gone to a park in Washington, near where he grew up, and spent several hours there.


_____________________________

So he told police he spent only several hours at the park (several usually means a bit more than a couple or a few maybe 4 hours?), yet he was gone for an entire 12 hours from around noon until 12:30am the next morning. Not only that, he also knocked on the back door which seems a bit odd, as if he was trying not to be seen returning the car to his friend Nathan. Something fishy about this, how did he explain to his wife, Nathan and police where he was for the other 8 hours?? I find it odd that no one questioned him on this more in depth.

Here is the entire police report filed for his "mental breakdown" in 2011 in case you missed the link:
http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/3392_001.pdf

Another questionable aspect of this report is the fact that JH took his friend Nathan to some house in Troutsdale (which btw is a city you'd pass through on highway 84 on the way to Larch Mountain) which he claimed he and Amanda were planning on renting. Nathan told police in the report Jonathan "specifically told him how he and his wife had walked the perimeter of the house and looked in the windows." That seems pretty specific to me considering Amanda had no such idea about any house. The fact that this house was between Gresham and Larch Mountain in and around the exact areas he got rid of evidence with WH is very unsettling.

Also,
"In the police report from 8/18/11--I found the wording from JDH interesting as to why he needed time away. He says he had a mental breakdown and needed "one on one time". Maybe it's just me, but I'd say "alone time". One on one implies another person in his company. JMO."

Couple all of this with this earlier post and it just seems that there are too many coincidences here. First, showing off a house he was interested in near Larch Mountain that he lied about showing to his wife, leaving his friend at Best Buy to be gone 12 hours in total (7-8 hours unaccounted for), supposedly went to a park he grew up in, stated he had a mental breakdown, one on one time mentioned (maybe accidentally said this?), returning to his friend quietly by knocking on the back door as if he didn't want anyone to know....it just seems odd.
 
ohhh also in reading the report, JH's wife is reported as saying (Regarding if JH was capable of stealing his friend's car and laptop) that she would have a hard time saying anyone wasn't capable of it.

Um, sorry, but if that was asked about my husband, lol I would say "absolutely no way" because there is not a doubt in my MIND that my husband would NEVER do that, not to a friend, and not to a stranger!

BBM and it's my own quote again :P

This is from this news link: http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon?fId=175490841&fPath=/home&fDomain=10202

The police report said the officer asked Bargas if he thought John had stolen his car and Nathan said "this was very out of character for John, as he had just completed his EMT training and was a well-known and trusted friend."

I think it's interesting that his friend said it would be out of character for JH to have stolen the car, but his WIFE, the person he lives with, sees his good and his bad, the person closest to him, seems to have tried to evade the question, and didn't say something to reflect shock or disbelief at his behavior.
 
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