GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[caffeinejean]

CaffieneJean---- I did'nt read this report. Can you tell us Did LE find any of Whitney's belongings in the Holt's apartment or any child *advertiser censored* photos, DVDs, stored disc, or a dairy or notes about this crime or notes of his feelings going on in head?

Thanks.

I haven't read any report that answers your question here. I did post a link earlier with the statement from the Gresham Chief of Police (the 10pm presser from Oct. 19th) announcing the arrest of JH. I thought it might help for some earlier posts or questions that were discussed in this thread. That's all.
http://greshamoregon.gov/news/newste...aspx?id=281255

 

[Glow]

I'm not sure if this was previously posted but it's been quite a while since this was posted (Oct 22) and I believe there is a lot of information in here pertaining to JH's background, how he seemed to others around him, neighbors etc. I find that digging into a killer's psychology and motives behind crimes is one of the most important aspects that is consistently overlooked. Since we don't know JH's motive yet nor how he suddenly became a cold-blooded killer, this is all we can resort to for the time being.

/B]

I couldnt agree with you more. Understanding the "why" behind the "what" helps us to make sense of the random and chaotic. More importantly it can educate us so we know more about what to look for and hopefully prevent.
Knowledge is power, right?

 

[AvalonBlue]

As emotionally tough as it was to do, tonight I re-read the 44 page pdf document regarding this case. Although there are several pages missing due to redacted information, the pdf really does spell out quite clearly several of the issues that seem to have been in dispute recently on this thread. It is easy for us to forget details when emotions run high.

Re-reading however:

The issue with the cell phones seems fairly clear.

The issue with surveillance of JH seems fairly clear.

The issue of the evidence in the SUV seems fairly clear.

The confession by JH about the abduction and murder seems fairly clear.

The confession by JH about being in possession of child *advertiser censored* seems fairly clear.

Obviously, much is still NOT clear, and many details are missing, on purpose, because those details are not supposed to be within our purview at this time. I hope that those many of those details will be released when the time is right.

I believe that if the documents we do have access to are re-read and referred back to that the waters may be calmed regarding some of the issues creating conflict on this thread.

IMHO

 

[Sasquatch]

I couldnt agree with you more. Understanding the "why" behind the "what" helps us to make sense of the random and chaotic. More importantly it can educate us so we know more about what to look for and hopefully prevent.
Knowledge is power, right?

It is important for me to know the Why as well! In my earlier postings I mentioned some of the profile characteristics of the Anger-Retaliatory Rapist.
Things like the victim was killed by Overkill, sloppy crime scene, evidence thrown, if the perpetrator has planned it in advance he overstocks on weapons and ammo...the list goes on in similarities to this case. One paragraph in the book" Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations"- Keppel/Birnes added some more possible insights, to why someone who has done such a brutal crime would show emotions or even possibly cry after a brutal crime like this. The book states on page 156-157:

"When the subject views the sexual assault and murder as a success, He often leaves the crime scene with a feeling of having been cleansed and renewed. Because the subject has transferred the blame of the murder onto the victim, he does not experience any sense of guilt. Accordingly, he does not own any feelings of wrongdoing. In fact, quite the contrary is true. That
is, he can develop a sense of sentimentality over the victim and help search for the victim with tears in his eyes (Keppel and Walter, 1999)

link below - scroll down to page.... Anger-Retaliatory Rape Profile starts on page 155
some characteristics also have similar patterns to Power Reassurance Rapist.
http://books.google.com/books?id=2dPxKC9Qs_cC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=Power-Reassurance+Rape-Murderer&source=bl&ots=s2ShBbXbX7&sig=ZZYeLQAJ7SG9__0OSAOz58q8-1g&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6VqcUJSpHbPlyAGb54FQ&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Power-Reassurance%20Rape-Murderer&f=false

 

[Glow]

Because the subject has transferred the blame of the murder onto the victim, he does not experience any sense of guilt. Accordingly, he does not own any feelings of wrongdoing. In fact, quite the contrary is true. That
is, he can develop a sense of sentimentality over the victim and help search for the victim with tears in his eyes (Keppel and Walter, 1999)

link below - scroll down to page.... Anger-Retaliatory Rape Profile starts on page 155
some characteristics also have similar patterns to Power Reassurance Rapist.
http://books.google.com/books?id=2dPxKC9Qs_cC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=Power-Reassurance+Rape-Murderer&source=bl&ots=s2ShBbXbX7&sig=ZZYeLQAJ7SG9__0OSAOz58q8-1g&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6VqcUJSpHbPlyAGb54FQ&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Power-Reassurance%20Rape-Murderer&f=false

In the affidavit, when JH was being interviewed he stated that he felt things had been "surreal" and that if he hadnt been robbed, he would have been able to be of more help in Whitneys being missing.

Nothing more to add, just that his saying that came to mind when I read your post.

 

[Glow]

As emotionally tough as it was to do, tonight I re-read the 44 page pdf document regarding this case. Although there are several pages missing due to redacted information, the pdf really does spell out quite clearly several of the issues that seem to have been in dispute recently on this thread. It is easy for us to forget details when emotions run high.

Re-reading however:

The issue with the cell phones seems fairly clear.

The issue with surveillance of JH seems fairly clear.

The issue of the evidence in the SUV seems fairly clear.

The confession by JH about the abduction and murder seems fairly clear.

The confession by JH about being in possession of child *advertiser censored* seems fairly clear.

Obviously, much is still NOT clear, and many details are missing, on purpose, because those details are not supposed to be within our purview at this time. I hope that those many of those details will be released when the time is right.

I believe that if the documents we do have access to are re-read and referred back to that the waters may be calmed regarding some of the issues creating conflict on this thread.

IMHO

I agree with all of your post but I bolded that one part because in re reading the document it struck me how many paragraphs (pages in fact) were devoted to that topic. Other things got a lot of mention (the guns for instance) but we know them to be a real and tangible part of this case. So this makes me wonder if the computer *advertiser censored* is not also real and tangible evidence to LE even though the public hasnt been made aware of that directly.

 

[jash]

As emotionally tough as it was to do, tonight I re-read the 44 page pdf document regarding this case. Although there are several pages missing due to redacted information, the pdf really does spell out quite clearly several of the issues that seem to have been in dispute recently on this thread. It is easy for us to forget details when emotions run high.
<snipped>

Snipped and BBM

Are you reading the PDF on a Mac? There shouldn't be any pages missing. Try opening on a PC or using Adobe Acrobat (this has worked for others).

 

[BrownEyedGirl80]

OK BrownEyed Girl, can you clear this up. This question is not that a big of a deal.

During the crime it seems everyone here has said Holt had the stolen Clint Heichel cell phone and then later Holt had access to Whitney's cell phone.

Did LE actually prove Holt was'nt carrying his cell phone during the crime, maybe in his backpack?

Because I say this thinking aloud here, Holt would've taken a BIG RISK having CH's cell, not knowing if CH cancelled the cell phone services.

And if he thought this through, what if Whitney's cell phone had died during the crime?

Holt's only Plan C option left would be having access to his own cell phone, maybe in his backpack. It just seems like no one these days can go a minute out of their day without tweeting or checking messages on their phones. I would think having some workable communications might've been important to Holt.

I agree with other members about all you have to do is take your SIM card and put it in another phone and VOILA! I know this because just this week, my mother's phone died, so I had an old phone that I was no longer using since I got an iPhone that I told her she could use. We took my old phone and her broken phone to the AT&T store thinking they would have to "activate" my old phone for her or do something to switch it over to her service. Nope, all the customer service rep did was take my mom's SIM card out of her broken phone, take my old SIM card out of my old phone, and put mom's SIM card into my old phone and she was set to go.

 

[Quester]

It is important for me to know the Why as well! In my earlier postings I mentioned some of the profile characteristics of the Anger-Retaliatory Rapist.
Things like the victim was killed by Overkill, sloppy crime scene, evidence thrown, if the perpetrator has planned it in advance he overstocks on weapons and ammo...the list goes on in similarities to this case. One paragraph in the book" Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations"- Keppel/Birnes added some more possible insights, to why someone who has done such a brutal crime would show emotions or even possibly cry after a brutal crime like this. The book states on page 156-157:

"When the subject views the sexual assault and murder as a success, He often leaves the crime scene with a feeling of having been cleansed and renewed. Because the subject has transferred the blame of the murder onto the victim, he does not experience any sense of guilt. Accordingly, he does not own any feelings of wrongdoing. In fact, quite the contrary is true. That
is, he can develop a sense of sentimentality over the victim and help search for the victim with tears in his eyes (Keppel and Walter, 1999)

link below - scroll down to page.... Anger-Retaliatory Rape Profile starts on page 155
some characteristics also have similar patterns to Power Reassurance Rapist.
http://books.google.com/books?id=2d...age&q=Power-Reassurance Rape-Murderer&f=false

Sasquatch – Thank you for your posts on Anger-Retaliatory Rapist. The info is quite disturbing and does seem to fit the disclosed-to-date details of this crime. Makes me wonder if there were/are any warning signs or if this type of offender is quite stealth in the lead up to the crime and therefore the victim was/is typically taken by complete surprise?

From your link:

With the anger-retaliatory murderer, the prediction of when the next murder may occur is next to impossible. It is dependent on when another female triggers his anger, and there could be years between murders.
​

Chilling!

 

[Boodles]

Sasquatch &#8211; Thank you for your posts on Anger-Retaliatory Rapist. The info is quite disturbing and does seem to fit the disclosed-to-date details of this crime. Makes me wonder if there were/are any warning signs or if this type of offender is quite stealth in the lead up to the crime and therefore the victim was/is typically taken by complete surprise?

From your link:

With the anger-retaliatory murderer, the prediction of when the next murder may occur is next to impossible. It is dependent on when another female triggers his anger, and there could be years between murders.
​

Chilling!

Here's more info about rapist types. I followed a trial earlier this year where the murderer, IMO, was an anger-retaliatory rapist. He broke into a house, raped and murdered a woman after an argument with his wife. He was drinking and taking stimulants (ritalin I think) that night. He was an alcoholic, unemployed, addicted to *advertiser censored*, hypersexual (seeking both random men and women for sex) and had a variety of mental issues. It was such a disturbing case. Google Jason Williford if you're interested, but it's pretty horrific - gave me nightmares...

http://www1.csbsju.edu/uspp/crimpsych/CPSG-5.htm

 

[Desdemona]

Thanks again caffeinejean.

These articles are helping me tighten up the timeline in my own mind. It (the murder) all happened and was over so fast wasnt it?
Just 3 short hours...

:shakehead: A lot of evil happened in that short time, didn't it? How quickly an innocent person's happy life can be destroyed; the victim's loving family and friends scarred forever; the public shaken, horrified, dismayed. Grab her before breakfast, done and gone by lunchtime:

• Vehicle commandeered (Abduction) ~6:50am.
  
  
• Vehicle reappears in vicinity of Sandy Rd. WalMart ~11:15am w/no Whitney.
  
  
• Note: Holt abandoned the vehicle by ~11:40, giving him possession/control of Whitney's vehicle for a total of ~5 hours (~4 hrs, 50 min), but we assume Whitney was deceased at least from the time he departed from the body recovery site at Larch Mountain, and that he took some time to attempt to clean the vehicle's interior.
  
  
• Therefore, from the ~11:15 arrival of the vehicle near WalMart:
  
  
• Subtract est. ~25 min drive time from Larch Mtn to WalMart area after dumping Whitney's body.
  
  
• Subtract est. ~30 min of vehicle 'cleanup' prior to appearance of vehicle on WalMart video.
  
  
• She had to have been left on the mountain no later than ~10:20am.
  
  
• ~6:50am to ~10:20am = ~3 hrs, 30 min to abduct, terrorize, assault and kill Whitney, and dump her body.

BBM, JMO, estimates only.

 

[nikb]

:shakehead: A lot of evil happened in that short time, didn't it? How quickly an innocent person's happy life can be destroyed; the victim's loving family and friends scarred forever; the public shaken, horrified, dismayed. Grab her before breakfast, done and gone by lunchtime:

• Vehicle commandeered (Abduction) ~6:50am.
  
  
• Vehicle reappears in vicinity of Sandy Rd. WalMart ~11:15am w/no Whitney.
  
  
• Note: Holt abandoned the vehicle by ~11:40, giving him possession/control of Whitney's vehicle for a total of ~5 hours (~4 hrs, 50 min), but we assume Whitney was deceased at least from the time he departed from the body recovery site at Larch Mountain, and that he took some time to attempt to clean the vehicle's interior.
  
  
• Therefore, from the ~11:15 arrival of the vehicle near WalMart:
  
  
• Subtract est. ~25 min drive time from Larch Mtn to WalMart area after dumping Whitney's body.
  
  
• Subtract est. ~30 min of vehicle 'cleanup' prior to appearance of vehicle on WalMart video.
  
  
• She had to have been left on the mountain no later than ~10:20am.
  
  
• ~6:50am to ~10:20am = ~3 hrs, 30 min to abduct, terrorize, assault and kill Whitney, and dump her body.

BBM, JMO, estimates only.

Thank you for the estimated timeline. IMO the shorter the time he had her, especially alive, the better - less suffering. I know we'd all rather her be here alive, but since she isn't, I hope it was all as quick as possible.

I have a possibly dumb question. When coming up with timelines in general, is the assumption people are driving roughly the speed limit? I ask because there are some roads near me that you can easily go way faster on and no one would ever notice. If he was racing to wherever he dumped her, again to wherever he did his semi-cleanup, and then again to the parking lot, how far off might the time be? I'm not questioning your timeline at all as I really appreciate it! It just got me wondering.

 

[masyann]

Thank you for the estimated timeline. IMO the shorter the time he had her, especially alive, the better - less suffering. I know we'd all rather her be here alive, but since she isn't, I hope it was all as quick as possible.

I have a possibly dumb question. When coming up with timelines in general, is the assumption people are driving roughly the speed limit? I ask because there are some roads near me that you can easily go way faster on and no one would ever notice. If he was racing to wherever he dumped her, again to wherever he did his semi-cleanup, and then again to the parking lot, how far off might the time be? I'm not questioning your timeline at all as I really appreciate it! It just got me wondering.

I understand and agree. I can go from Eugene to Bend OR. and some places go faster and then there are the roads that are so windy that you have to go under the speed limit. And most times I have never even seen a police man. Although they are out there sometimes.
I think the only thing we know for sure is she left her apartment at
6:45 am and I may be wrong but there was a ping from her phone at
9:14 am and CC usage at the gas station verified by camera. And that her Ford was left at Walmart at 11:38. Not sure about timing as to Walmart but I will look and when verified.

Your question is one I am trying to pinpoint but cant seem to. On some info we only have JH word on. And I guess we have to go by that unless LE has proof differently. And I think drive times can very with different circumstances, but may come close do to roads that and curvy. And once you get to the towns or city the lights would come in to play. I want to scream now.:banghead:

 

[Sasquatch]

I understand and agree. I can go from Eugene to Bend OR. and some places go faster and then there are the roads that are so windy that you have to go under the speed limit. And most times I have never even seen a police man. Although they are out there sometimes.
I think the only thing we know for sure is she left her apartment at
6:45 am and I may be wrong but there was a ping from her phone at
9:14 am and CC usage at the gas station verified by camera. And that her Ford was left at Walmart at 11:38. Not sure about timing as to Walmart but I will look and when verified.

Your question is one I am trying to pinpoint but cant seem to. On some info we only have JH word on. And I guess we have to go by that unless LE has proof differently. And I think drive times can very with different circumstances, but may come close do to roads that and curvy. And once you get to the towns or city the lights would come in to play. I want to scream now.:banghead:

Thank you for the estimated timeline. IMO the shorter the time he had her, especially alive, the better - less suffering. I know we'd all rather her be here alive, but since she isn't, I hope it was all as quick as possible.

I have a possibly dumb question. When coming up with timelines in general, is the assumption people are driving roughly the speed limit? I ask because there are some roads near me that you can easily go way faster on and no one would ever notice. If he was racing to wherever he dumped her, again to wherever he did his semi-cleanup, and then again to the parking lot, how far off might the time be? I'm not questioning your timeline at all as I really appreciate it! It just got me wondering.

The Clackamas County Probable Cause for Lodging Document states that the crime occurred on 10/16 at 8:40 (am), for 3 counts of Aggravated Murder. The later court hearing produced the formal charges (Holt1.pdf)

They left the Heatherwood Apartments at 6:45am. JH states that 5 minutes into the ride on Hogan Drive (same as 242nd) he pulled a gun on WH. They most likely circled back around to Hogan, because you can't take a left on Hwy 26 in front of their complex. If the gun was pulled out on Hogan before Powell Blvd, then they most likely took an immediate right on Powell Blvd, which is almost a straight shot to Dodge park, then up to Roslyn Lake.

From Hogan to Roslyn Lake is about 30-40 minutes. It is a peaceful route through nurseries and lots of nice scenery. There are three school zones,2 on Powell Valley Rd (1 on Lusted), a few stop signs that you go through then jump on Lusted Road, two sets of downhill curves (short in duration) and one curvy road past Dodge Park to Roslyn Lake. The roads were wet because of the heavy rains on Monday. I went that route to fish at Dodge Park on the previous Sunday, and you definitely need to slow down on some of the curves when its wet . There are some straight stretches, so you could shave probably 10 minutes off of the time if they sped through the straight stretches. Thomas Road is on the South side of the old Lake Bed, so you go down rural roads to get there.

Starting at 6:45am, they probably got to Roslyn Lake at 7:25am. So if the crime occurred at 8:40am that is 1 hour and 15 minutes spent at Roslyn Lake. A KOIN TV photo taken at Dodge Park, showed that he might have dumped the car mat, possible linen (KOIN News Photo), apron and possibly glass (loko cans? possibly). Dodge Park might have been one of the cleanup areas, so that the people at Shell didn't notice anything in the front seat during gassing up. Another news program mentioned that the church search party found the sweater at Pleasant Valley Road and Dodge Park Road, then he could have probably taken the back route of Troutdale Road up to Stark and to the Shell Station.
(You will recognize Troutdale Road from the 7/2011 JH Police report where he said he was looking for a house with his wife and he stole the car. JH knew this area very well)
So from 8:40am to 9:14am he drove back to Shell, possibly made a second stop after that, down on Frontage Road at Travel Centers Gas (if the reports are correct) and 40 minutes up to Larch Mountain makes it around 10:10am, he hid WH's body, probably cleaned up some more and by 11:38am he parks the vehicle at Walmart. Walks across the bridge through the trails by the apartments, throws the phone and there he is back on 257th street.
This is my guess of the timeline.

 

[Sasquatch]

Here's more info about rapist types. I followed a trial earlier this year where the murderer, IMO, was an anger-retaliatory rapist. He broke into a house, raped and murdered a woman after an argument with his wife. He was drinking and taking stimulants (ritalin I think) that night. He was an alcoholic, unemployed, addicted to *advertiser censored*, hypersexual (seeking both random men and women for sex) and had a variety of mental issues. It was such a disturbing case. Google Jason Williford if you're interested, but it's pretty horrific - gave me nightmares...

http://www1.csbsju.edu/uspp/crimpsych/CPSG-5.htm

Thank you for this info. I googled it, and it definitely was a horrific crime and case. Lots of interesting facts to compare this case to. It will be interesting to see if there was any substance abuse by JH. If I remember correctly, JH left his job at Subway (which happens to be just across the street from Travel Centers Gas and Frontage Road/257th), but no circumstances were given of why he left. Another question I have, is why JH and his wife moved to Heatherwood Apartments in August? Roberts Street, where they lived was closer to everything downtown, one block from Gresham Station/Max Train. I am sure that will come out later on as well.

 

[caffeinejean]

The Clackamas County Probable Cause for Lodging Document states that the crime occurred on 10/16 at 8:40 (am), for 3 counts of Aggravated Murder. The later court hearing produced the formal charges (Holt1.pdf)

They left the Heatherwood Apartments at 6:45am. JH states that 5 minutes into the ride on Hogan Drive (same as 242nd) he pulled a gun on WH. They most likely circled back around to Hogan, because you can't take a left on Hwy 26 in front of their complex. If the gun was pulled out on Hogan before Powell Blvd, then they most likely took an immediate right on Powell Blvd, which is almost a straight shot to Dodge park, then up to Roslyn Lake.

From Hogan to Roslyn Lake is about 30-40 minutes. It is a peaceful route through nurseries and lots of nice scenery. There are three school zones on Powell Valley Rd, a few stop signs that you go through then jump on Lusted Road, two sets of downhill curves (short in duration) and one curvy road past Dodge Park to Roslyn Lake. The roads were wet because of the heavy rains on Monday. I had went that route to fish at Dodge Park on the previous Sunday, and you definitely need to slow down on some of the curves when its wet . There are some straight stretches, so you could shave probably 10 minutes off of the time if they sped through the straight stretches. Thomas Road is on the South side of the old Lake Bed, so you go down rural roads to get there.

Starting at 6:45am, they probably got to Roslyn Lake at 7:25am. So if the crime occured at 8:40am that is 1 hour and 15 minutes spent at Roslyn Lake. It showed at Dodge Park, that he dumped the car mat, possible linen (KOIN News Photo), apron and possibly glass. Dodge Park might have been one of the cleanup areas, so that the people at Shell didn't notice anything in the front seat during gassing up. Another news program mentioned that the church search party found the sweater at Pleasant Valley Road and Dodge Park Road, then he could have probably taken the back route of Troutdale Road up to Stark and to the Shell Station.
(You will recognize Troutdale Road from the 7/2011 JH Police report where he said he was looking for a house with his wife and he stole the car. JH knew this area very well)
So from 8:40am to 9:14am he drove back to Shell, possibly made a second stop after that, down on Frontage Road at Travel Centers Gas (if the reports are correct) and 40 minutes up to Larch Mountain makes it around 10:10am, he hid WH's body, probably cleaned up some more and by 11:38am he parks the vehicle at Walmart. Walks across the bridge through the trails by the apartments, throws the phone and there he is back on 257th street.
This is my guess of the timeline.

Wow! That's great sleuthing. But here are just a couple things that I thought about as I was reading your post. If Whitney was truly the driver would she drive that fast to their destination? And my thought on the route might still be up hwy 26 to Sandy over to Roslyn on Thomas Rd. Maybe this little turnout is where he decides he can have her stop to change driving position or maybe she just stops the car in the open. Things go awry, I hope Whitney's fighting. He shoots, panics and runs up to Dodge Park to get out of the open. He throw things out and cleans up abit and then back down to Stark to Gas up, etc.? But, Wow you sure laid the scenario out well.

 

[westsidefox64]

The Clackamas County Probable Cause for Lodging Document states that the crime occurred on 10/16 at 8:40 (am), for 3 counts of Aggravated Murder. The later court hearing produced the formal charges (Holt1.pdf)

They left the Heatherwood Apartments at 6:45am. JH states that 5 minutes into the ride on Hogan Drive (same as 242nd) he pulled a gun on WH. They most likely circled back around to Hogan, because you can't take a left on Hwy 26 in front of their complex. If the gun was pulled out on Hogan before Powell Blvd, then they most likely took an immediate right on Powell Blvd, which is almost a straight shot to Dodge park, then up to Roslyn Lake.

From Hogan to Roslyn Lake is about 30-40 minutes. It is a peaceful route through nurseries and lots of nice scenery. There are three school zones,2 on Powell Valley Rd (1 on Lusted), a few stop signs that you go through then jump on Lusted Road, two sets of downhill curves (short in duration) and one curvy road past Dodge Park to Roslyn Lake. The roads were wet because of the heavy rains on Monday. I went that route to fish at Dodge Park on the previous Sunday, and you definitely need to slow down on some of the curves when its wet . There are some straight stretches, so you could shave probably 10 minutes off of the time if they sped through the straight stretches. Thomas Road is on the South side of the old Lake Bed, so you go down rural roads to get there.

Starting at 6:45am, they probably got to Roslyn Lake at 7:25am. So if the crime occurred at 8:40am that is 1 hour and 15 minutes spent at Roslyn Lake. A KOIN TV photo showed at Dodge Park, that he might have dumped the car mat, possible linen (KOIN News Photo), apron and possibly glass (loko cans? possibly). Dodge Park might have been one of the cleanup areas, so that the people at Shell didn't notice anything in the front seat during gassing up. Another news program mentioned that the church search party found the sweater at Pleasant Valley Road and Dodge Park Road, then he could have probably taken the back route of Troutdale Road up to Stark and to the Shell Station.
(You will recognize Troutdale Road from the 7/2011 JH Police report where he said he was looking for a house with his wife and he stole the car. JH knew this area very well)
So from 8:40am to 9:14am he drove back to Shell, possibly made a second stop after that, down on Frontage Road at Travel Centers Gas (if the reports are correct) and 40 minutes up to Larch Mountain makes it around 10:10am, he hid WH's body, probably cleaned up some more and by 11:38am he parks the vehicle at Walmart. Walks across the bridge through the trails by the apartments, throws the phone and there he is back on 257th street.
This is my guess of the timeline.

Thanks for this. The local info really helps. The walk across the bridge to the trails by the apt makes so much sense to me now. I just couldnt figure out if the white utility van was his ride out that he could have gotten ahold of anyone. Im now more certain than ever that there was nothing to do with the crime associated with the van.

 

[Tennlyn]

So that is three different people who remember JH as typical, quiet, shy, or bullied. . .not the popular football player.

I agree that his childhood probably played a role in what caused him to commit this terrible thing.

The only spot I found that football player comment in the MSM was in the comments under an article. Personally, I think the man who wrote the comment was thinking of the wrong guy.

If anyone has a link that shows otherwise, please let me know!

MOO:moo:

 

[newsjunkie]

The only spot I found that football player comment in the MSM was in the comments under an article. Personally, I think the man who wrote the comment was thinking of the wrong guy.

If anyone has a link that shows otherwise, please let me know!

MOO:moo:

No, you are right. It just seems, if memory serves correctly, that at the time some wanted to take that comment and run with it.

 

[Glow]

Wow! That's great sleuthing. But here are just a couple things that I thought about as I was reading your post. If Whitney was truly the driver would she drive that fast to their destination? And my thought on the route might still be up hwy 26 to Sandy over to Roslyn on Thomas Rd. Maybe this little turnout is where he decides he can have her stop to change driving position or maybe she just stops the car in the open. Things go awry, I hope Whitney's fighting. He shoots, panics and runs up to Dodge Park to get out of the open. He throw things out and cleans up abit and then back down to Stark to Gas up, etc.? But, Wow you sure laid the scenario out well.

Funny how questions can generate more questions! I have been thinking a lot about when exactly Whitney was removed from the drivers seat (if she was).

I have read different articles quoting JH as saying he forced her to drive him at gunpoint. There has also been some thought that maybe at some point she was moved to the passenger front seat. The two things that may lend credence to this are 1) the blood and matter found on the interior passenger windshield 2) the specific question by detectives to JH asking did he ever drive her car and also a mention of DNA on the steering wheel.

Does anyone have a better source for whether they both drove the SUV at some point or was it just Whitney that did the driving?