GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[Xavier]

Some of you folks live in the Northwest and would know this better.

Thinking out loud here, wondering if the hunters and target practice shooters that all have said go to Larch Mtn, well, do these people "sign in " to the main offices at Larch? We do this in some places in Ohio. Sort of like checking in to the front desk, so they know who's there for safety and other purposes, like being notified for family emergencieis, etc.

If this is true, then maybe LE can see what shooters were at Larch on Oct 16th in the morning and find out if anyone heard or saw anything pertaining to this crime.

 

[luckygirl]

The only spot I found that football player comment in the MSM was in the comments under an article. Personally, I think the man who wrote the comment was thinking of the wrong guy.

If anyone has a link that shows otherwise, please let me know!

MOO:moo:

So that is three different people who remember JH as typical, quiet, shy, or bullied. . .not the popular football player.

I agree that his childhood probably played a role in what caused him to commit this terrible thing.

BBM

I'm kind of surprised more ppl have not come out of the woodwork talking about JH.
Not that it matters <modsnip>.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

BBM>> I respectfully but very strongly disagree.

The elements of Holt's story which are refuted by evidence are definitely significantly less believable than details which are supported by evidence. JMO

I'd respectfully disagree; we have knowledge of some evidence at this point but we aren't privy to all of it--and some has yet to come out, as it will continue to be gathered by both sides of the case during discovery period.

In addition, without the benefit of trial proceedings, we can't know at this point how best to interpret the little evidence we are privy to. Evidence is subject to accurate interpretation before it 'means' anything; that's the point of a good trial.

But, as always, you are free to maintain your strong disagreement.

 

[Xavier]

BBM

I'm kind of surprised more ppl have not come out of the woodwork talking about JH.
Not that it matters <modsnip>.

Funny you mention this, I thought the same thing. It really seems like no one, except friends from high school, have had any positive remarks about Holt.

His parents, brother are probably shell shocked about this crime

<modsnip>. Just my opinion.

 

[Xavier]

JH had Whitney's phone, right? He could possibly see all the messages it received from her family and church folks out frantically searching for her. Perhaps something in those messages caused Holt to change or abandon his original plan in mid-stream?

Remember when the kids found her phone, and said there'd been a message from someone named "Scott," saying "we are looking for you," or something similar? This might be a stretch, but Gresham Police Det. Scott Hogan was working the case from the beginning according to this piece:
http://www.kptv.com/story/19962560/detectives-in-whitney-heichel-case
Wonder if it was LE trying to contact her, and how early that message showed up on her phone -- and whether Holt saw it? Did it say in the docs if/when Hogan or other LE may have attempted reaching her via her phone?

(BTW, the video at the above link shows aerial footage of where Whitney's body was found on Larch Mountain. Just FYI, re discussing how far JH may have traveled in the Explorer.)

Oh, and what time did they find Whitney's sweater? It was reportedly the "first clue found"... Is it possible her sweater was found before 9:14, and someone had called or messaged Whitney's phone regarding the find?

At any rate, I doubt JH ever anticipated such an immediate, massive and rapid deployment of targeted/trained searchers. "Sixty carloads of people," "mobilized quickly" by trained search/rescue experts. So, who knows?

--

Search leader: Heichel's sweater first clue found by searchers
By Dan Tilkin KATU News and KATU.com Staff Published: Oct 25, 2012 at 5:19 PM PST

Weaver said they started their search at Heichel's apartment and from there sent out about 60 carloads of church members to scour remote areas for her. Those dozens, even hundreds, of searchers mobilized quickly. Searchers took cellphone pictures of areas highlighted on a map to use while searching.

The searchers began to realize the situation was dire when they found Heichel's sweater.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Sear...-first-clue-found-by-searchers-175893161.html

Good Timeline...I can't figure why would Holt throw out the cell phone he stole from CH, then Holt threw that phone out?

Am wondering too, would like to know the last calls made on WH's and Holt's cell phones..

Why would Holt throw out his cell phone? Because of the call he made to Starbucks around 6am OCt 16 and di'nt want to implicate himself.?

 

[Sasquatch]

Some of you folks live in the Northwest and would know this better.
Thinking out loud here, wondering if the hunters and target practice shooters that all have said go to Larch Mtn, well, do these people "sign in " to the main offices at Larch?

I haven't hunted in years, but I believe you only need your deer tag and a hunting license in Oregon, and you are able to hunt on most public land. There isn't a check-in that I know of. Some private land requires you to get a permit to legally go past their gates and onto their property. Most places never require any kind of check in though.

On my earlier theory and timeline, I believed JH might have traveled a distance to Larch Mountain to hide WH's body, because he had target practiced there before and was familiar with the area. He grew up in East Portland and Larch Mountain has always been a popular shooting area for a lot of people in the Portland Metro area.

After reading the KATU information about where Weaver found the tire tracks and license plate, one thing stuck out to me. The milepost 10 marker on Larch Mountain. The evidence was found close to the popular shooting sites. Although I am not sure if they are legal shooting sites, I believe people go up there and target practice anyways.

KATU Info:

"Divided that in half (an hour and 15 minutes) and we started driving and seeing how far we can go in an hour and 15 minutes. (We) ended up at Larch Mountain, because of something on the Internet about Larch Mountain, which ended up not being true, but still, you got to do with every possible (lead); one hour 15 minutes, mile marker 9 up Larch Mountain Road &#8211; mile marker 10, it all worked out," Weaver said.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Search-leader-Whitney-Heichels-sweater-first-clue-found-by-searchers-175893161.html

Northwest Firearms Forum- (some local info for brainstorming, still need to further investigate for more sources)

"Larch Mt. three. This one, (the one I used to use years ago) was East of Corbett. It was closed after two teenagers took dad's AR-15 out and got into fight with another shooter who didn't want to share his shooting spot (the "Gallery") and ended up emptying a full mag on him.
"There were three separate spots on this Larch Mt. , the Gallery, just off Larch Mt. Road at mp. 10, the quarry, a couple miles from the Gallery on Palmer Mill Road, and the clearcut, at the North end of Palmer Mill Road. This place was for years the place to shoot if you were coming from Portland, as it was pretty close. I take it that all three of these locations are still closed, can anyone confirm this ? "

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/outdoor-shooting-areas/18480-larch-mountain-2.html

I believe Palmer Mill Road in that area was shut down last year because of all of the illegal dumping of stolen cars and garbage. I did find one more case back in 1981, where a body was dumped in the area after a murder. No relation to this case, but just interesting info about the area.
http://investigation.discovery.com/investigation/true-crime-stories/dwayne-gray/dwayne-gray.html

 

[newsjunkie]

I see your point, and could be that Holt never got behind the wheel at that point...but to me it's not a 100% given. (Meaning if I were his lawyer I'd be checking it out.) In jumping others' vehicles, I've been in situations where the two people involved went back and forth between being at the accelerator and holding the cables...especially if there were problems with starting it and the jump starting was over a protracted period of time. The motorcycle apparently had a history of trouble, so it may have taken more time.

Yes, they did swab the steering wheel, and the article below says the DNA result was "one of the keys to his arrest." As we haven't been told the exact nature of that DNA result (sweat, fingerprint, skin particles, other?), I'd be interested in knowing if its presence could be could be explained by having been behind the wheel in a jump-start situation, since he denied ever driving her car. If I were his lawyer, especially.

http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2012/10/whitney_heichel_was_shot_four.html

I had two thoughts when reading this:

1) JH took police to her body. He is heavily if not singularly involved in this.

2)Why do you point out everything JH says as though it should be believed when it defends him, but anything he says that implicates himself you say we should ignore because he can't be believed? TIA

 

[La Louve]

You're missing the real point here LA Louve. Whether there's an attendant or not, Holt or anyone in Oregon for that matter, can have the gas stopped.

The real point is why would Holt leave with so little gas, only to go down to the nearest gas station minutes away to get more gas. I'm conjecuring as to the WHY La Louve.

La Louve, Do you have a theory why Holt left so fast or got so little gas? See, we're just speaking out loud, sharing thoughts, ideas. That's all my friend.

I didn't miss your point, I just don't believe your point is material. Yes, you can have the gas stopped, but unless you want to attract a LOT of attention to yourself (or cause a fuel spill or fire) you cannot "bolt" (your word) from the gas station in a hurry if the pump is in your filler and the attendant has stepped away from the pump to help another customer - which is what normally happens if you ask to fill the tank. The attendant generally only stays at the pump if you ask for a specific amount, especially a small amount like $5 or $10.

My personal opinion is that JH asked for a small amount so the attendant would have to stay at the pump, watching the meter, not looking in the back of the car through the tinted windows, nor looking at license plate numbers and where JH could keep an eye on him. But that first stop didn't give him enough gas to get up to Larch Mtn. which necessitated another stop for gas.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I had two thoughts when reading this:

1) JH took police to her body. He is heavily if not singularly involved in this.

2)Why do you point out everything JH says as though it should be believed when it defends him, but anything he says that implicates himself you say we should ignore because he can't be believed? TIA

1) I agree he is involved in the scenario. The only thing I don't know at this point for sure is the extent of that.

2) I question assumptions; I don't tell others what they should believe. Though, if their own logic compels them to agree with me, that's their problem.

 

[La Louve]

I see your point, and could be that Holt never got behind the wheel at that point...but to me it's not a 100% given. (Meaning if I were his lawyer I'd be checking it out.) In jumping others' vehicles, I've been in situations where the two people involved went back and forth between being at the accelerator and holding the cables...especially if there were problems with starting it and the jump starting was over a protracted period of time. The motorcycle apparently had a history of trouble, so it may have taken more time.

Yes, they did swab the steering wheel, and the article below says the DNA result was "one of the keys to his arrest." As we haven't been told the exact nature of that DNA result (sweat, fingerprint, skin particles, other?), I'd be interested in knowing if its presence could be could be explained by having been behind the wheel in a jump-start situation, since he denied ever driving her car. If I were his lawyer, especially.

http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2012/10/whitney_heichel_was_shot_four.html

Just curious, PIM, do you not believe LE would have been just as careful to make sure the DNA they found could not be explained any other way?

 

[caffeinejean]

I haven't hunted in years, but I believe you only need your deer tag and a hunting license in Oregon, and you are able to hunt on most public land. There isn't a check-in that I know of. Some private land requires you to get a permit to legally go past their gates and onto their property. Most places never require any kind of check in though.

On my earlier theory and timeline, I believed JH might have traveled a distance to Larch Mountain to hide WH's body, because he had target practiced there before and was familiar with the area. He grew up in East Portland and Larch Mountain has always been a popular shooting area for a lot of people in the Portland Metro area.

After reading the KATU information about where Weaver found the tire tracks and license plate, one thing stuck out to me. The milepost 10 marker on Larch Mountain. The evidence was found close to the popular shooting sites. Although I am not sure if they are legal shooting sites, I believe people go up there and target practice anyways.

KATU Info:

"Divided that in half (an hour and 15 minutes) and we started driving and seeing how far we can go in an hour and 15 minutes. (We) ended up at Larch Mountain, because of something on the Internet about Larch Mountain, which ended up not being true, but still, you got to do with every possible (lead); one hour 15 minutes, mile marker 9 up Larch Mountain Road – mile marker 10, it all worked out," Weaver said.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Search-leader-Whitney-Heichels-sweater-first-clue-found-by-searchers-175893161.html

Northwest Firearms Forum- (some local info for brainstorming, still need to further investigate for more sources)

"Larch Mt. three. This one, (the one I used to use years ago) was East of Corbett. It was closed after two teenagers took dad's AR-15 out and got into fight with another shooter who didn't want to share his shooting spot (the "Gallery") and ended up emptying a full mag on him.
"There were three separate spots on this Larch Mt. , the Gallery, just off Larch Mt. Road at mp. 10, the quarry, a couple miles from the Gallery on Palmer Mill Road, and the clearcut, at the North end of Palmer Mill Road. This place was for years the place to shoot if you were coming from Portland, as it was pretty close. I take it that all three of these locations are still closed, can anyone confirm this ? "

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/outdoor-shooting-areas/18480-larch-mountain-2.html

BBM
Really good stuff Satch!
In an earlier post, someone suggested the possibility of JH not only being familiar with the area but also may have known that it closes regularly to road traffic right at mile post 10 this time of year. It's a good place to get lost in the snow, so they put up a gate to prohibit road access until the Spring. This year it closed on Thursday Oct. 25.... About 9 days after Whitney's disappearance.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Just curious, PIM, do you not believe LE would have been just as careful to make sure the DNA they found could not be explained any other way?

I would have no way of knowing, La Louve--I wasn't in on the investigation. As I said, I'm loathe to make assumptions, especially when a man's life is at stake.

 

[caffeinejean]

As an aside and for a little levity.... Does anybody besides me wish they could change their poster name for different posts and just leave it at the bottom? I've noticed "Really?", "Maybe", "Bravo" and have been envious. How about "Seriously?" or "No Way".
or even "LOL"!

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

As an aside and for a little levity.... Does anybody besides me wish they could change their poster name for different posts and just leave it at the bottom? I've noticed "Really?", "Maybe", "Bravo" and have been envious. How about "Seriously?" or "No Way".
or even "LOL"!

Can I have first dibs on Maybe?

 

[caffeinejean]

No, it's taken. But you can have "FirstResponse":great:

 

[Glow]

No, it's taken. But you can have "FirstResponse":great:

Thanks for the laugh caffieinejean. Very refreshing!

A funny aside, when I first started posting here (back when God was a boy..) I had just finished reading a period novel and there was always mention of laying a fire, lighting lamps, trimming wicks etc. I loved that time period and especially in the winter, love to see a fire glowing in the dark. So I, born away on my own inspiration, decided to make my user name here "glowinginthedark". I was sitting at my desktop and feeling very good about having joined and getting ready to post and my then teenaged son happened to wander by. My inspiration came crashing down around me when he said "hey mom, why are you making your user name sound like what it says on a condom machine at a truckstop bathroom?" :what:

I had never heard that and by the way how had he???

Turns out that male kids get that in their restrooms while us girls get Tampax machines in ours. Who knew?

So I was all :blushing: and andullhair:

Oh no! What had I done! What if everyone thought what my son did? What if all I did was remind people of a condom? :waitasec:

So I contacted a mod and she laughed at my story and we changed it to just "glow"

So for me, I wont be changing things....I think I need to leave well enough alone:floorlaugh:

 

[caffeinejean]

Glow, Likewise thanks for the laugh. That is one funny story!

 

[Quester]

So in OR where a gas station attendant tends the pump, when do you pay &#8211; before or after the gas is pumped? I would assume the attendant first finds out how much gas the driver wants (e.g. fill her up or $25 worth). Is cash payment made or credit card turned over at that initial contact or after the gas has been pumped? TIA

In this case, we know that JH, in WH&#8217;s SUV, used WH&#8217;s credit card at the gas station at around 9:14(?) am.

 

[newsjunkie]

So in OR where a gas station attendant tends the pump, when do you pay &#8211; before or after the gas is pumped? I would assume the attendant first finds out how much gas the driver wants (e.g. fill her up or $25 worth). Is cash payment made or credit card turned over at that initial contact or after the gas has been pumped? TIA

In this case, we know that JH, in WH&#8217;s SUV, used WH&#8217;s credit card at the gas station at around 9:14(?) am.

I'm not from OR, but visited earlier this year. First time in my life I had full service at a gas station. Each time we filled up, we paid after the gas was pumped (we paid cash).

 

[caffeinejean]

So in OR where a gas station attendant tends the pump, when do you pay – before or after the gas is pumped? I would assume the attendant first finds out how much gas the driver wants (e.g. fill her up or $25 worth). Is cash payment made or credit card turned over at that initial contact or after the gas has been pumped? TIA

In this case, we know that JH, in WH’s SUV, used WH’s credit card at the gas station at around 9:14(?) am.

I am from Oregon, and hardly know how to pump my own gas! But to answer your question, I almost always use a credit card which the attendant puts into the slot on the pump prior to dispersing gas. In fact, he gives my credit card back almost immediately, and then gases my car up.

In JH's case, he was using Whitneys ATM card, he may have asked for just a small amount because he didn't know the limits of her card. First stop was a test along with great paranoia. JMO