GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[newsjunkie]

Good points Kodi--- If Holt's cell phone had 30 incoming calls on it, that's alot of calls. IMO the calls were from his employers, his parents, his wife, maybe JW search team members calling Holt to volunteer for WH's search.
That would be a shock for Holt to see that text.

Now that you've validated a lot of calls were on Holt's cell phone, so I believe he saw several calls coming in during the Dodge Park murder site, so in an act of spontaneity, frustration, anger, Holt just casually throws out his cell phone via ride back to town.

Think of Holt's mindset.

He just brutally murdered some one he knew and probably cared about. The last thing he wanted was contact from the real world, so to rid himself of the hassling, irritating phone calls, he decides to "chuck it" spontaneously on the roadside berm. This makes the most psychologial sense to me.

I think you misunderstood kodi's post. There were NOT 30 incoming calls on JH's phone. Those calls never made it to his phone, they went to voicemail. His phone was not ringing non-stop. There were multiple attempts to reach him by phone, but his phone must have been turned off.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
But remember...JH wasn't getting calls on his phone. When Amanda went to cancel his phone service Tuesday night, AT&T records showed that last call/info transaction on his phone was at 6:08 AM that morning. Then it was likely turned off, because 30 more calls tried to make it through, but did not--went to voicemail as though service was off.

From kodi's post above:


So if he threw his phone on the berm, it wasn't because it was ringing and bothering him. It was there for some other reason.

Goo dpoint sPIM---- Is it possible for a cell phone that's turned off, to still see the caller ID"s? If this is possible, then it makes sense to me Holt wanted to get rid of his phone from the annoying calls from the real world?

Also, on this thought, maybe Holt thought he threw out WH's phone thinking it was his phone, which maybe was still turned on or possibly if it was off, then maybe you can see the caller ID's on a turned off cell phone.

No Xavier; I have a smartphone, too. If it's turned off, it's completely off--dark gray screen, no vibrations, no rings, no dings. No activity to bug you.

 

[gwenabob]

PIM--- Yeah, you have some good points. It's so idiotic that Holt seemed to leave evidence Clearly Visible as if inviting the evidence to be discovered easily?

And Holt should've had his INNER RADAR on High alert after the 1st, 2cd LE interviews, knowing he likely would be tailed under surveillance. Then he does another idiotic move and got caught disposing of evidence.

I still would love to see the Shell gas videos and try to see who the passenger was in the SUV.
IMO There's no way WH was in the passenger seat slumped over with the gas attendant standing nearby the SUV. So who was riding in the SUV as claimed by the gas attendant? That's the mystery question I believe.

I don't believe there was a person in the passenger seat. I think the attendant just got his customers confused. It would be very easy to do.

 

[gwenabob]

Now that you've validated a lot of calls were on Holt's cell phone, so I believe he saw several calls coming in during the Dodge Park murder site, so in an act of spontaneity, frustration, anger, Holt just casually throws out his cell phone via ride back to town.

bbm

Just wanted to clarify that based on the information we have, the murder did not happen at Dodge Park. It happened on a public road near Dodge Park.

 

[Sasquatch]

Why did JH gas up (with a small amount of gas) once at Shell (257th&Stark) and then proceed to go downhill and gas up at Travel Centers on Frontage Road before heading up to Larch Mountain?

I believe I just stumbled onto the answer while driving to coffee this morning. I was driving a Ford Ranger, which is built on the same platform as the Explorer, and it had only 1/8 tank of gas in it. I do not drive the truck all the time, so I figured it had enough gas to where I was going. As I started going down a long hill, my gas gauge went to empty (almost to the point where my gas light should have kicked on). I glanced down and was a little surprised, that my tank was on empty. My first thought was to drive to the nearest gas station and fill up. As I started to get to even ground my gauge slowly floated back to the 1/8 full position. That little jolt, made me think instantly of the JH gassing up twice incident. The fluctuation of a gas tank in a Ford Explorer or Ranger by 1/8 to 1/4 of a tank, while going down hill is extremely common. Having a full tank in the Explorer, you would not see the fluctuation of the gauge.

Here is a forum where other people talk about this fluctuation of the gauge:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134398


Evidence tells us that JH gassed up at Shell Gas Station at 9:14am and then he went downhill to Frontage Road to Travel Centers and put more gas in the Explorer a few minutes later. It is odd because JH could have easily gotten gas at Shell and proceeded downhill on 257th and jumped onto the Freeway (I-84) toward Larch Mountain. The reason he probably gassed up a second time, was probably because of the gas tank effect that I described above. Here is why:

1. JH was not familiar with driving WH's Explorer and he didn't know how much gas she had in it.
2. WH was known to keep a small amount of gas in her SUV and had to have help in the past, due to running out of gas. In fact that is how she bonded with CH, during one of her, running out of gas incidents (The Outlook Article)
3. The 302nd Route, which I timed to be around the 23 minutes, goes down 2 hills. This may have triggered her out of gas light or may have shown an empty gauge, since she might have had only 1/8 -1/4 tank of gas in it. The stop sign at 302nd and Stark, sits at a downhill slope. If JH was deciding to either go right to Larch Mountain, or gas up, the downhill effect on the gas gauge forced him to go get gas, even if he had gas in there.
4. When JH gassed up at Shell, he gassed up with a small amount. For example if he had close to an empty tank, and he was forced to put in 10 dollars, that would push the gauge up by 2.56 gallons based on gas at $3.90/Gallon. A 1999 Ford Explorer 4dr has a 21 gallon tank. 21 gallons divided by 8 = 2.625. You need almost 3 gallons of gas to push the gauge up 1/8th of a mark. 10 dollars would give him an appearance of 1/8 more gas until he went right on 257th Street. Once you go right on 257th, it forces you to start driving downhill before you get to the freeway ramp to I-84. I believe JH thought he had put enough gas in, but once he started going downhill the gauge showed him up to 1/4 lower than he thought and he decided to go straight and loop around frontage and put more gas in.

I believe that this lower tank gas effect is what caused him to go back into town to gas up, then when he put in just a little gas, the drive down 257th forced him to abandon hanging a right onto the highway and loop around Frontage Road for more gas.
The intersection on 257th lets you decide to either hang a right onto the Freeway, or go straight and loop around on Frontage. Once you gas up on Frontage, you just go straight and you are back on the Freeway toward Larch Mountain.

 

[newsjunkie]

Why did JH gas up (with a small amount of gas) once at Shell (257th&Stark) and then proceed to go downhill and gas up at Travel Centers on Frontage Road before heading up to Larch Mountain?

I believe I just stumbled onto the answer while driving to coffee this morning. I was driving a Ford Ranger, which is built on the same platform as the Explorer, and it had only 1/8 tank of gas in it. I do not drive the truck all the time, so I figured it had enough gas to where I was going. As I started going down a long hill, my gas gauge went to empty (almost to the point where my gas light should have kicked on). I glanced down and was a little surprised, that my tank was on empty. My first thought was to drive to the nearest gas station and fill up. As I started to get to even ground my gauge slowly floated back to the 1/8 full position. That little jolt, made me think instantly of the JH gassing up twice incident. The fluctuation of a gas tank in a Ford Explorer or Ranger by 1/8 to 1/4 of a tank, while going down hill is extremely common. Having a full tank in the Explorer, you would not see the fluctuation of the gauge.

Here is a forum where other people talk about this fluctuation of the gauge:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134398


Evidence tells us that JH gassed up at Shell Gas Station at 9:14am and then he went downhill to Frontage Road to Travel Centers and put more gas in the Explorer a few minutes later. It is odd because JH could have easily gotten gas at Shell and proceeded downhill on 257th and jumped onto the Freeway (I-84) toward Larch Mountain. The reason he probably gassed up a second time, was probably because of the gas tank effect that I described above. Here is why:

1. JH was not familiar with driving WH's Explorer and he didn't know how much gas she had in it.
2. WH was known to keep a small amount of gas in her SUV and had to have help in the past, due to running out of gas. In fact that is how she bonded with CH, during one of her, running out of gas incidents (The Outlook Article)
3. The 302nd Route, which I timed to be around the 23 minutes, goes down 2 hills. This may have triggered her out of gas light or may have shown an empty gauge, since she might have had only 1/8 -1/4 tank of gas in it. The stop sign at 302nd and Stark, sits at a downhill slope. If JH was deciding to either go right to Larch Mountain, or gas up, the downhill effect on the gas gauge forced him to go get gas, even if he had gas in there.
4. When JH gassed up at Shell, he gassed up with a small amount. For example if he had close to an empty tank, and he was forced to put in 10 dollars, that would push the gauge up by 2.56 gallons based on gas at $3.90/Gallon. A 1999 Ford Explorer 4dr has a 21 gallon tank. 21 gallons divided by 8 = 2.625. You need almost 3 gallons of gas to push the gauge up 1/8th of a mark. 10 dollars would give him an appearance of 1/8 more gas until he went right on 257th Street. Once you go right on 257th, it forces you to start driving downhill before you get to the freeway ramp to I-84. I believe JH thought he had put enough gas in, but once he started going downhill the gauge showed him up to 1/4 lower than he thought and he decided to go straight and loop around frontage and put more gas in.

I believe that this lower tank gas effect is what caused him to go back into town to gas up, then when he put in just a little gas, the drive down 257th forced him to abandon hanging a right onto the highway and loop around Frontage Road for more gas.
The intersection on 257th lets you decide to either hang a right onto the Freeway, or go straight and loop around on Frontage. Once you gas up on Frontage, you just go straight and you are back on the Freeway toward Larch Mountain.

:rocker: :rocker:Thanks so much. You are helping to make sense out of what seems to otherwise be senseless!

 

[Sasquatch]

:rocker: :rocker:Thanks so much. You are helping to make sense out of what seems to otherwise be senseless!

You are welcome! After I gassed up, I wrote my notes on the back of my receipt, so that I wouldn't forget anything after I went to coffee!

 

[AvalonBlue]

Wow! Almost like an ongoing concerted effort to confuse, muddy, twist and spew nonsense about the facts as they are known to date. Why?

Quester, thank you, "extra special"!:rocker:

The "Thanks" button just wasn't quite enough for your right-on observations; IMO.

I so appreciate your wise input and astute viewpoint.

I have been writing and editing myself, and writing and editing myself; ad infinitum -- and just couldn't get to the point of accomplishing all you said in such a short, sweet, and very accurate post, IMHO.

:seeya:

:razz:

:yourock:

 

[Sasquatch]

Here are the three photos of the Roslyn Lake South turnout, that I took a few days ago, when I placed the yellow and light pink roses next to the power pole. This was taken with an older camera phone, so they are not as clear as I would have liked them to be. The pink roses are still buds, and the paper around the pot is brown, so they are hard to see in these photos. I was surprised how close the colors, of the flowers on the pole, were to the ones that I brought. Definitely not planned that way, but a wonderful sign of unity!

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Really insightful observation, Sasquatch about the two gas stops. Seems you almost have to try to walk through (or drive through) parts of the scenario that day in order to try to wring some sense out of some of it. Thanks for your thoughts (and note taking!).

ETA: cross-posted with your pictures above; thanks for those, too!

 

[Sasquatch]

Really insightful observation, Sasquatch about the two gas stops. Seems you almost have to try to walk through (or drive through) parts of the scenario that day in order to try to wring some sense out of some of it. Thanks for your thoughts (and note taking!).

ETA: cross-posted with your pictures above; thanks for those, too!

Thank you! These events hit real close to home. It makes a person more aware about the day to day things, that most of us take for granted. I am just glad that I live close enough to be able to put my boots and wheels on the ground, to try to make some sense out of some of these things. You are welcome, about the pictures. I wanted to show the flowers, as well as shed a little more light on the size of the berm and show how the Explorer's back tires might have gotten mud on them.

 

[caffeinejean]

Here are the three photos of the Roslyn Lake South turnout, that I took a few days ago, when I placed the yellow and light pink roses next to the power pole. This was taken with an older camera phone, so they are not as clear as I would have liked them to be. The pink roses are still buds, and the paper around the pot is brown, so they are hard to see in these photos. I was surprised how close the colors, of the flowers on the pole, were to the ones that I brought. Definitely not planned that way, but a wonderful sign of unity!

Thank you. Those photos took my breath away. They are exactly as you described. Bless your heart.

 

[Sasquatch]

Thank you. Those photos took my breath away. They are exactly as you described. Bless your heart.

You are welcome, and Thank you! I am glad that I could share them.

 

[Xavier]

Here are the three photos of the Roslyn Lake South turnout, that I took a few days ago, when I placed the yellow and light pink roses next to the power pole. This was taken with an older camera phone, so they are not as clear as I would have liked them to be. The pink roses are still buds, and the paper around the pot is brown, so they are hard to see in these photos. I was surprised how close the colors, of the flowers on the pole, were to the ones that I brought. Definitely not planned that way, but a wonderful sign of unity!

Thanks Sasq, very classy gesture you did.

Have you had any contact with the family?

What's the local vide going on about the crime?

You know, if this road is not travelled alot and somewhat remote, it would'nt seem to me Holt leaving the cell phone at the pole would be leaving it visible?

Also, I noticed the high grassy areas in the photos. Do you think Holt could've driven back, hidden from the road and committed the murder?

I'm wondering why would Holt go thru so much more effort to go to Larch when this area in your photos would've sufficed to do the murder and place WH somewhere out in the woods and also strip the SUV and just leave it there?

 

[newsjunkie]

Thanks Sasq, very classy gesture you did.

Have you had any contact with the family?

What's the local vide going on about the crime?

You know, if this road is not travelled alot and somewhat remote, it would'nt seem to me Holt leaving the cell phone at the pole would be leaving it visible?

Also, I noticed the high grassy areas in the photos. Do you think Holt could've driven back, hidden from the road and committed the murder?

I'm wondering why would Holt go thru so much more effort to go to Larch when this area in your photos would've sufficed to do the murder and place WH somewhere out in the woods and also strip the SUV and just leave it there?

On page 9 of the affadavit, it says that they found the phone on the berm on the north side of the turn-out and just west of the power pole.

If I have my directions correct, I took that to mean that it was on the other side of that muddy turn out road from the pole and then down a little to the west (to the left of the picture). So not actually in the grass by the power pole but the large grassy area in the back of the picture..

Anyone feel free to correct me if I have my directions wrong or read the affadavit wrong.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

On page 9 of the affadavit, it says that they found the phone on the berm on the north side of the turn-out and just west of the power pole.

If I have my directions correct, I took that to mean that it was on the other side of that muddy turn out road from the pole and then down a little to the west (to the left of the picture). So not actually in the grass by the power pole but the large grassy area in the back of the picture..

Anyone feel free to correct me if I have my directions wrong or read the affadavit wrong.

Yes, and forgive me for possibly confusing things, here; when reading the pdf and looking at that first photo of the area, I thought the 'berm' was the grassy lsland that the pole was on, since I'm not a local and couldn't tell from the picture that the other side of the drive was raised. It just looked like a bunch of layered grassland to me. When reading that the phone was found west' of the pole, I thought that meant it was pretty much right there at the pole. But it was tossed on the other side of that turnout, on what is a raised berm.

 

[Sasquatch]

Thanks Sasq, very classy gesture you did.

Have you had any contact with the family?

What's the local vide going on about the crime?

You know, if this road is not travelled alot and somewhat remote, it would'nt seem to me Holt leaving the cell phone at the pole would be leaving it visible?

Also, I noticed the high grassy areas in the photos. Do you think Holt could've driven back, hidden from the road and committed the murder?

I'm wondering why would Holt go thru so much more effort to go to Larch when this area in your photos would've sufficed to do the murder and place WH somewhere out in the woods and also strip the SUV and just leave it there?

Thank you! There really isn't a place to drive back into, other than the turnout. The grassy area has boulders and small trees in front of it and the only place that grass was disturbed, was on a little muddy trail in the middle of the berm, where people have walked. This area, on 10/16, would have been twice as muddy, because it had rained heavily, on Monday, the night before. The puddles in the turnout were heaviest on the East end, in my photos you can see the two puddles in the middle. I don't remember seeing many puddles on the West end of the turnout where the documents say the crime occurred. I do not have the West end in the photographs, but the berm extends well past the turnout and looks identical to the rest of it. The lack of puddles on the West end, was most likely the reason that the Explorer was parked there.

The dense trees South of the turnout, and the surroundings would have definitely amplified any noise like a car driving by or gunshots. I believe JH's first priority was to get out of there to avoid getting caught. I still believe that JH falls under the Anger-Retaliatory Rapist profile. We will probably have to wait until the trial next year, to find out what his true motive was.

The community has gotten back to its usual routine. The news and media are off covering different stories and the LE are on different cases. There hasn't been much talk lately, about the case in the coffee circles. I believe it would be a different case, if JH had not been apprehended and WH's body would not have been recovered. The family is blessed to have such a strong church group and a supporting community. Like the rest of the community, we are all respecting the family's privacy and we hear only from the family via the local newspapers and media.

 

[Sasquatch]

I'm wondering why would Holt go thru so much more effort to go to Larch when this area in your photos would've sufficed to do the murder and place WH somewhere out in the woods and also strip the SUV and just leave it there?

I think that what you are asking is a great question. JH shows that he is disorganized in so many aspects of the crime, yet he shows a level of adaptation and organization as well. The abduction by gunpoint happened near his home, but the murder happened about 17 minutes away. After Roslyn Lake, a lot of evidence is thrown out of the vehicle (signs of an Anger-Retaliatory Rapist and being disorganized), but JH then proceeds to transport the body to a different location. After the crime, he parks the Explorer at Walmart and walks back to 257th. At the end of the crime he returns to the vicinity of where he had previously worked at, which is Subway Sandwiches at the Troutdale Outlet Mall on 257th, near Frontage Road and the I-84 ramp. We can not technically call JH a serial killer, because there is only one victim that we know of so far. The FBI has categorized serial killers as Organized, Unorganized and Mixed(see Wiki Link) Some sources have mentioned that similar methods used by the FBI to categorize serial killers, can be used to help profile rapists.

http://www.loyno.edu/~mcj/'01Fcohort/Thornton/HandOuts/Investigative_Profiling.html

"The publication of the Crime Classification Manual: A Standard System for Investigating and Classifying Violent Crimes by John Douglas and his associates (1992) serves to formally classify the critical characteristics of the perpetrators and victims of three major violent crimes – murder, arson, and sexual assault. "

What I did find interesting regarding serial killers, is the correlation between the area where an abduction occurred, and the place the bodies were dumped at:

http://www.drtomoconnor.com/4050/4050lect04.htm

"The next component to be examined is geographical, and although there are many new, modern ways to get a handle on this, the following is what the FBI approach entails: Disorganized = lives and/or works near crime scene Organized = geographically/occupationally mobile"

" It's a known fact of investigative science that, as criminals become more experienced, they gradually expand the territory they operate in. As they become less confident in their ability, they restrict the area they operate in. With serial killers, along with improvement in experience also comes the tendency to dump bodies farther away from the abduction site. This is why if police have a series of unsolved murders all with the same MO, the best thing to do is look at the first crime, because that's usually close to where the offender lives and/or works. "Adaptability and mobility are signs of the organized killer" (Ressler 1992: 132)."

Serial killer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The FBI's Crime Classification Manual places serial killers into three categories: organized, disorganized, and mixed (i.e., offenders who exhibit organized and disorganized characteristics).[42] Some killers descend from being organized into disorganized behavior as their killings continue.

Organized nonsocial offenders usually have above average intelligence, with a mean IQ of 113.[43] They often plan their crimes quite methodically, usually abducting victims, killing them in one place and disposing of them in another. They often lure the victims with ploys appealing to their sense of sympathy."

And finally an interesting quote about the killers mental maps and understanding the terrain that they operate in. Possibly a link to our earlier comments about the significance of Mile Post 10 on Larch Mountain, the shooting range or snow gate closing in October and the fact that JH spent so much time coming and going from 257th street.

http://www.loyno.edu/~mcj/'01Fcohort/Thornton/HandOuts/Investigative_Profiling.html


Investigative Psychology
"The second approach, significance of time and place, suggests that the time and place for a violent crime has special meaning for the perpetrator. Offenders who have a job or occupation that allows them to observe potential victims over time in their own settings becomes a prime hunting ground for the potential targets. Additionally, offender’s knowledge of the geography or spatial patterns of an area has a particular bearing on their perception of where it is possible to commit certain types of crimes and even dispose of victim’s bodies. Canter believes that individuals make such decisions based on “mental maps” or internal representations of the terrains that they operate in."

 

[Boodles]

^^^Once again, excellent info Sas...thanks!

 

[Glow]

Very interesting post Sasquatch!

I am very interested in the why aspect of this crime. I read one of the links you posted and have run out of time. I will read the other as soon as I can get back here but TIA for posting them. Loads of material to digest and think about there.

In the meantime, some of us had been making a list of traits JH posesses. I have compiled everyones contributions in to one list so that it will be in one place to refer to in conjunction with the links Sasquatch has provided.

I can already say (having just read one of the links) that it is puzzling me how JH seems to veer between one category and then the other....

ok, here is a list of what we all came up with concerning traits of JH:


High School Graduate 3.35 overall grade point average (2006)

Certified Emergency Medical Technician (EMT 2010)

Loner, Quiet, Shy
Uncommunicative with his wife--keeps things bottled up then explodes

Felt like a failure

Low paying jobs

Parents recently divorced

Working class background
Holt's wife was THEE authority figure in thei rhousehold.

habitual liar

*advertiser censored* addict

struggling with his faith(?)

He seems quite immature to me. He was so concerned about their finances, but couldn't seem to keep a job, and yet they had not only 2 laptops, but an iPad, as well.

gun fascination

thief
bullied in school

played football maybe(?)

peeping tom (?)

stalker perhaps? (when plowing through their desk and dresser drawers and stealing the phone)

kidnapper

sexual assaulter

murderer

attempted hiding of crime

my intent was to include everyone who posted on this. If anyone sees something has been left out, let me know and I will add it to the list.