GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

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Originally Posted by caffeinejean View Post
I agree that JH was probably thinking that the coincidence of his personal robbery claim and Whitneys disappearance would have LE believing that his alleged robbers were the perps. Even to the point that he admitted to LE that he had been robbed of guns and ammunition that were in his pack back. Then in the ensuing days he began distributing the guns, ammo, holster, ammo boxes, etc. near his workplace, around his apartment complex, and even a gun at the Gresham police station. Is he being framed by the perps who robbed him? Or now can he claim that he was being framed by the LE who had him under surveillance? Just kind of sick and twisted anyway you look at it.
If LE had Holt's finger prints on the bullet casings, gun(s) and also had tested for "backfire" gunpowder residue left on his shooting hand, then it's crystal clear to me Holt was the killer/shooter.

Xavier, so as not to confuse readers here... ;) LE posted in the affidavit about surveillance LE watching Holt ditch ammo and guns. No official mention of fingerprints on bullets/guns (though likely) and no official record that I've read at least of gunpowder residue (which would be less likely even if he were found to be guilty, as he wasn't arrested until three days after the crime).
 
Xavier, so as not to confuse readers here... ;) LE posted in the affidavit about surveillance LE watching Holt ditch ammo and guns. No official mention of fingerprints on bullets/guns (though likely) and no official record that I've read at least of gunpowder residue (which would be less likely even if he were found to be guilty, as he wasn't arrested until three days after the crime).

PIM---this is interesting on possibly how long gunshot residue can stay on the shooter's body and clothing. If you're into extra reading, here's the link :)) http://www.wavesignal.com/Forensics/GSR.html

"it was reported that nitroglycerine could be detected on garments which were worn with unrestricted activity for as long as 5 days after test firing. Whether or not the prolonged persistence of the residues on clothing is of value depends on the availability of firearms in the relevant community. Clearly, much greater significance attaches to the results if access to firearms is restricted.



When a weapon is discharged, gunshot residues are mixed with propulsive gases and deposited on nearby objects, including the person who fired the weapon. The amount of deposition is determined by several factors such as the type and condition of weapon, number of shots fired, the amount of oil, moisture or perspiration material on the deposited surface, and the direction and force of air currents (34). The following discussion of the deposition of gunshot residues considers deposits from handguns and long guns on the firer and the target.
 
Xavier, so as not to confuse readers here... ;) LE posted in the affidavit about surveillance LE watching Holt ditch ammo and guns. No official mention of fingerprints on bullets/guns (though likely) and no official record that I've read at least of gunpowder residue (which would be less likely even if he were found to be guilty, as he wasn't arrested until three days after the crime).

That is probably why LE tried to confiscate his sweats and other clothing, to try to find her DNA/Blood on them, gunpowder residue and possibly even fiber or hair transfer (fibers from the vehicle, linen, her clothing (possibly sweater), her hair and maybe even overspray from the Febreeze). You are right, the gunpowder residue would be gone from his hands, but could be transferred to another object he touched, or even a car seat from a ride.

FBI GSR Analysis Page Quote:
"Gunshot residue particles can be removed easily from the surfaces they land on. Regular activities, such as putting hands in pockets, rubbing hands together, or handling items, can wipe them away.4 The washing of hands can remove most, if not all, particles. Rates of loss vary widely with the activity of the subject. Depending on conditions and activity, particles may be removed from a shooter’s hands within 4 to 5 hours after a shooting event.5 They also can transfer from a surface or person to another individual; the amount depends on the number of GSR particles on the contaminated surface (e.g., a person’s clothing or hands) and likely will be a small percentage of the total number of particles present"

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/may_2011/The%20Current%20Status%20of%20GSR%20Examinations
 


PIM---this is interesting on possibly how long gunshot residue can stay on the shooter's body and clothing. If you're into extra reading, here's the link :)) http://www.wavesignal.com/Forensics/GSR.html

"it was reported that nitroglycerine could be detected on garments which were worn with unrestricted activity for as long as 5 days after test firing. Whether or not the prolonged persistence of the residues on clothing is of value depends on the availability of firearms in the relevant community. Clearly, much greater significance attaches to the results if access to firearms is restricted.

When a weapon is discharged, gunshot residues are mixed with propulsive gases and deposited on nearby objects, including the person who fired the weapon. The amount of deposition is determined by several factors such as the type and condition of weapon, number of shots fired, the amount of oil, moisture or perspiration material on the deposited surface, and the direction and force of air currents (34). The following discussion of the deposition of gunshot residues considers deposits from handguns and long guns on the firer and the target.

Interesting! And comprehensive to the point of being over my head at times. :D But, from what I gathered, IF the shooter washed his hands with soap and water, or put his hands in his pockets a number of times, there was no residue left on the skin. Even running water for 3 seconds could remove the residue. And an alternative study showed degradation of residue on the skin even without that interference. The residue left on cloth, however, stood a better chance of being there over a period of days:

Kilty (46) has reported the effect of hand activity and time on the persistence of gunshot residues found on the hands. Persons who test-fired guns had their hands examined for antimony and barium at various timed intervals after shooting. The shooters’ activity was unrestricted after firing, except that hand washing was forbidden. This study led to the conclusion that 2 hours after firing, substantial amounts of antimony and barium were removed. Importantly, the same worker (46) reported no evidence of gunshot residue deposition remaining on the hands of a shooter after the hands were washed with soap and water and then dried with paper towels.

Activities shown to remove substantial amounts of antimony and barium include rinsing the hands under low-pressure aerated water for 3 s, wiping the hands on clothing, and placing the hands in pockets three times. In this study, a significant amount of primer residue still remained on the hands of the shooter after placing their hands in their pockets three times. A transfer of antimony and barium from the shooting hand to the non-shooting hand was noted when hands were wiped with towels following a shooting and when the shooter was handcuffed with his hands behind his back and then transported in an automobile. It has also been reported that nitroglycerine residues on the shooter’s face, throat, and hands may be retained up to 7 hours (35). For unwashed hands of suicides, deposits may be present for 48 hours and perhaps for a much longer period (18).

A contradictory result has also been reported by Douse (17). In this author’s study, no nitroglycerine was detected on hands 0.5 hours after 11 test firings carried out with a variety of weapons and ammunition. The persistence of gunshot residues on cloth is much greater than that on skin.

I'm guessing Holt would've taken a shower between Tues. AM and Friday afternoon, so it wouldn't be on his shooting hand...but that they could test his long-sleeved t-shirt.
 
link: http://www.kptv.com/story/19929464/...murder-suspect-made-up-robbery-story-as-alibi


NOT GUILTY PLEA

Holt was arrested Oct. 19 and he pleaded not guilty in court Friday. He was arraigned on six counts of aggravated murder, one count of kidnapping, one count of sodomy and two counts of robbery.

Holt remains behind bars without bail. His trial is set for Dec. 14.
Heichel's family hosted an open house at a Gresham church Friday for people who have shown their love and support for the 21-year-old woman.
 
Interesting! And comprehensive to the point of being over my head at times. :D But, from what I gathered, IF the shooter washed his hands with soap and water, or put his hands in his pockets a number of times, there was no residue left on the skin. Even running water for 3 seconds could remove the residue. And an alternative study showed degradation of residue on the skin even without that interference. The residue left on cloth, however, stood a better chance of being there over a period of days:



I'm guessing Holt would've taken a shower between Tues. AM and Friday afternoon, so it wouldn't be on his shooting hand...but that they could test his long-sleeved t-shirt.

Yes, I learned some things about how to and the results of firing a gun from our Dad when he was in the FBI 60 years ago.

Good point, I forgot about LE collecting Holt's clothes, etc for test sampling...Good Post ! :))
 
Yes, I learned some things about how to and the results of firing a gun from our Dad when he was in the FBI 60 years ago.

Good point, I forgot about LE collecting Holt's clothes, etc for test sampling...Good Post ! :))

Thanks, but don't miss Sasquatch's post above (we cross-posted). He has another good link about it (the fbi.gov site).
 
OT
Xavier, your avatar is beyond precious! Are those your pups?
 
Hello. I'm new to this site and I signed up because I started following the Whitney Heichel case. Today, I made my first post on thread #5 but now it looks like my post was deleted because I can't find it anywhere. My statistics show that I have made 0 posts, but they also say that I was "thanked" 4 times on 1 post. I posted a link to a JW website where someone named Alan gave a first hand account of Whitney's disapperance, the search for her, and the events after she was located. Alan is supposedly a member of Whitney's former congregation in Gresham (before she married CH and switched to his congregation) who assisted in her search. Did I do something wrong for my post to be deleted? I sent a message to an admin so I'm waiting for a response. Did anyone read my post today and if so, did I break any rules? Like I said, I'm brand new and today was my first post so I'm just trying to figure out the site. Thanks so much!
 
Hello. I'm new to this site and I signed up because I started following the Whitney Heichel case. Today, I made my first post on thread #5 but now it looks like my post was deleted because I can't find it anywhere. My statistics show that I have made 0 posts, but they also say that I was "thanked" 4 times on 1 post. I posted a link to a JW website where someone named Alan gave a first hand account of Whitney's disapperance, the search for her, and the events after she was located. Alan is supposedly a member of Whitney's former congregation in Gresham (before she married CH and switched to his congregation) who assisted in her search. Did I do something wrong for my post to be deleted? I sent a message to an admin so I'm waiting for a response. Did anyone read my post today and if so, did I break any rules? Like I said, I'm brand new and today was my first post so I'm just trying to figure out the site. Thanks so much!

Hi BrownEyedGirl, and welcome.

I'm guessing your post may have been deleted as it was from a social networking site, and I believe those aren't considered okay to post (in that they aren't considered reliable sources for information). Admin will probably be in touch with you; don't worry. I made my first mistake on here my first or second day, too. Consider yourself initiated! :)
 
Hello. I'm new to this site and I signed up because I started following the Whitney Heichel case. Today, I made my first post on thread #5 but now it looks like my post was deleted because I can't find it anywhere. My statistics show that I have made 0 posts, but they also say that I was "thanked" 4 times on 1 post. I posted a link to a JW website where someone named Alan gave a first hand account of Whitney's disapperance, the search for her, and the events after she was located. Alan is supposedly a member of Whitney's former congregation in Gresham (before she married CH and switched to his congregation) who assisted in her search. Did I do something wrong for my post to be deleted? I sent a message to an admin so I'm waiting for a response. Did anyone read my post today and if so, did I break any rules? Like I said, I'm brand new and today was my first post so I'm just trying to figure out the site. Thanks so much!

Welcome to Websleuths and thank you for caring about Whitney's case.
 
Welcome to Websleuths. What a wonderful group of people in that congregation!
 
Hello. I'm new to this site and I signed up because I started following the Whitney Heichel case. Today, I made my first post on thread #5 but now it looks like my post was deleted because I can't find it anywhere. My statistics show that I have made 0 posts, but they also say that I was "thanked" 4 times on 1 post. I posted a link to a JW website where someone named Alan gave a first hand account of Whitney's disapperance, the search for her, and the events after she was located. Alan is supposedly a member of Whitney's former congregation in Gresham (before she married CH and switched to his congregation) who assisted in her search. Did I do something wrong for my post to be deleted? I sent a message to an admin so I'm waiting for a response. Did anyone read my post today and if so, did I break any rules? Like I said, I'm brand new and today was my first post so I'm just trying to figure out the site. Thanks so much!

Welcome, and don't feel bad it was deleted. Why, I was actually put on time out within a couple days of joining WS!! They have some very specific rules and posting from sites like that is not allowed. You could, however, post the link to that site and allow people to go see it for themselves. I did actually read it, and it was a very nice account, although I think there was some exaggeration evident. But I enjoyed reading it.
 
Hello. I'm new to this site and I signed up because I started following the Whitney Heichel case. Today, I made my first post on thread #5 but now it looks like my post was deleted because I can't find it anywhere. My statistics show that I have made 0 posts, but they also say that I was "thanked" 4 times on 1 post. I posted a link to a JW website where someone named Alan gave a first hand account of Whitney's disapperance, the search for her, and the events after she was located. Alan is supposedly a member of Whitney's former congregation in Gresham (before she married CH and switched to his congregation) who assisted in her search. Did I do something wrong for my post to be deleted? I sent a message to an admin so I'm waiting for a response. Did anyone read my post today and if so, did I break any rules? Like I said, I'm brand new and today was my first post so I'm just trying to figure out the site. Thanks so much!

Hi and welcome! Thanks for posting, and as greg said thanks for caring about her case. It's odd I don't even know her and I'm not local to her, but there's something about Whitney that just grabs my heart.

I'm sure an admin will be in touch soon, they're very responsive here (thanks admins!). I've had posts go missing too and there are a few that I still don't understand why, but I'm sure there are reasons so I try not to worry about it. I'm guessing they can probably see trouble brewing before a lot of us can.

I can see why you'd be wondering especially since it was your very first post though! I saw PIM said maybe it was a social media issue, which is very possible. One other thought I had is that the religious discussions have gotten wayyy out of control on Whitney's threads a few times. I don't recall seeing your post, but if it had much in the way of info about her religion or congregation, that could've caused it to be removed so we didn't go down that path again. I didn't see anyone bashing her faith, but we (myself included) got kind of sidetracked asking questions and such that didn't really relate to Whitney.

In any case hope you don't shy away from posting. There are rules, usually linked to on the first post of any thread, but they're pretty straightforward. The main ones that stick in my head are mostly "play nice," "avoid rumors/social media rumors," and "when in doubt, ask an admin first," but it's also a kind of learn as you go thing.
 
Hi all and thanks for your comments. I am so busy with work right now it is all I can do to get time away here to read what everyone is posting!

I was at my sons house yesterday he was cleaning his various guns and rifles (we live in a very rural area and it is about to be "hunting season". A couple of his buddies stopped by and one of them was driving an Explorer. Well you as you can imagine, that brought this case to mind. Then it dawned on me....these guys know a LOT about guns and ballistics and they are males in their 20s. So I asked them if they had heard of this case and they had not. So I quickly gave them the facts. They had a few choice words about what exactly should be done with JH but I wont go in to that.....

I asked them about the shots and the shell casing, the way the blood was pooled, the number of shots etc. They had some interesting things to say.

They said that the entrance wound a gun makes is smaller going in and bigger coming out, That it could very well be that she was looking out the passenger window and he shot her in the back of the head (coward)from the drivers seat. She could have slumped back and then her body shoved over the middle console and into the back rear,

As far as the shots they mentioned a military procedure called "double tap" Two quick consecutive shots usually done to head and chest. They said that this "punk" probably had read about that since he was "into" hand guns and the shoots may have been his "attempt" at a double tap.

They also (surprisingly to me) were somewhat doubtful about the "sexual act" JH told LE about, They said if he was that hopped up on those alcohol/caffeine drinks he might have not been able to "perform" as he had hoped.

The only other interesting thing was when I described the robbery JH said had happened and what the robber said to him......two of them said at the same time...."that's probably something he said to his own victim.

So it was interesting hearing their thoughts. Such nice, caring young men, eager to help me with my questions and shaking their heads at the actions of JH :furious:
 
Thanks for this perspective, it seems to make sense of Holt's possible motives and frame of mind. Holt seems to fit this description to a "T" and maybe was "suppressed" by the women in his immediate circle maybe "pressuring him or encouraging him", and Holt took their comments, as negative about him. Just go back to the "head clearing comments" Holt made when his newlywed wife asked him about his work...Amanda Holt has said " her husband keeps things bottled up, never knowing how he's feeling about something".... Either way he sounds like a wimp who can't "man up" . Holt used WH and took out on her his his "suppressed", tormented feelings. Holt likely wanted to "wear the pants, be in control" and friendly, free spirited, open minded, open hearted Whitney was his trophy.

And Holt's mind was warped in a delusional world of all things *advertiser censored*. He would'nt hurt/assault his wife Amanda at the "home base", but all other women he felt attractive were likely "fair game " for his fantasies. This theory makes a lot of sense. Thanks so much for posting this article.


I won't go into too much detail, but in my opinion JH might have similarities to the
Anger Retaliatory Rapist

1 - (Link 1 -Profiling Violent Crimes /An Investigative Tool Holmes/Holmes Page 159) This rapist tends to go in 6 months to 1 to 2 year cycles, where the other categories tend to be shorter. (Possibly the July 2011 event where he took off was his first encounter, when his wife asked about a job and he got mad and stole his friends car to clear his head?) Over a year later the WH event occurs. The box chart also mentions Little Planning and use of weapons of opportunity. Thus the messy crime scene and a gun he had from two months before he moved into the apartment building.

2- (Link 2-The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations/Robert Keppel/Birnes Page 155) The rape is planned and the murder involves Overkill! The rapist-murderer may not direct his anger toward a spouse, mother or female supervisor, but may take this anger out on a substitute victim whom he has sought out. Victims are usually same age group and race and often in the same neighborhood. The perpetrator tends to select victims from familiar areas. Sometimes choosing victims that remind them of the spouse or parent that has angered them.

3- Forced Oral Sex (used as intimidation and possibly because the rapist has a tendency of retarded ejaculation or because it is an act of anger, can not perform other acts of rape without the forced arousal)

4- Link 1 -Page 158 May work in an action orientated occupation (JH was certified to work as an EMT) , quick violent temper, is likely married and like many rapists are not assaultive toward their mate. His acts of rape tend to follow precipitating events involving his wife.


Starting on page 158(scroll up one page) this gives a brief account (not all pages might be there/google books)
http://books.google.com/books?id=110... sex&f=false

I found one more thing that stood out with the similarities of JH and the Anger Retaliatory Rapist profile.

The following link is to the book, Rape Investigation Handbook (Savino/Turvey) page 394
Modus Operandi Behaviour
Anger Retaliatory Rapist uses weapons of opportunity; If Planned Will Prepare For The Event With Excessive Weaponry and Ammunition.


This explains the two 9mm handguns and multiple clips and ammo seized by LE from JH.

Page 392, goes beyond the other books on explaining that the victim can
can be chosen as a symbol of not only another person (wife, female boss that angers them) but of an organization or institution. Meaning the victim might be a symbol of an organization, such as a church or institution. Having a note found titled "sound department" might have been resented added pressure to reconnect to the church, since his wife was an active member.

Page 392, "These offenders may grow more confident over time, as their egocentricity tends to be high. They may begin to do things that might lead to their identification. Law Enforcement may interpret this as a sign that the offender desires to get caught. What is actually true is that these offenders have no respect for Law Enforcement, have learned that they can commit their offenses without the need to fear identification or capture, and subsequently may not take precautions that they have learned are unnecessary"

This explains why JH went to the interviews and gave a DNA sample. He probably felt confident that he wouldn't get caught. I have read in some instances that perpetrators who are egocentric and have an elevated view of themselves, usually only give up information if the person interviewing them are of high rank and they are presented with lots of well documented evidence. Interviewing them with loose information and giving them a sense of a low ranking interviewer, does not feed into their own vision of Grandeur. Having a tight case probably got JH to speak.

http://books.google.com/books?id=mGaOIzxRByoC&pg=PA394&lpg=PA394&dq=anger+retaliatory+rapist+multiple+gunshots&source=bl&ots=rBlQ8pxR62&sig=J5ySf7VT2jJw122gEijpov6jo8w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NneYUNrkBOKYiAL9p4C4BQ&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=anger%20retaliatory%20rapist%20multiple%20gunshots&f=false
 
link: http://www.kptv.com/story/19929464/...murder-suspect-made-up-robbery-story-as-alibi


NOT GUILTY PLEA

Holt was arrested Oct. 19 and he pleaded not guilty in court Friday. He was arraigned on six counts of aggravated murder, one count of kidnapping, one count of sodomy and two counts of robbery.

Holt remains behind bars without bail. His trial is set for Dec. 14.
Heichel's family hosted an open house at a Gresham church Friday for people who have shown their love and support for the 21-year-old woman.



Dec. 14th huh? This is GREAT news. I am glad to see things move so swiftly. The state must feel very confident about the evidence they have.
 
Hi all and thanks for your comments. I am so busy with work right now it is all I can do to get time away here to read what everyone is posting!

I was at my sons house yesterday he was cleaning his various guns and rifles (we live in a very rural area and it is about to be "hunting season". A couple of his buddies stopped by and one of them was driving an Explorer. Well you as you can imagine, that brought this case to mind. Then it dawned on me....these guys know a LOT about guns and ballistics and they are males in their 20s. So I asked them if they had heard of this case and they had not. So I quickly gave them the facts. They had a few choice words about what exactly should be done with JH but I wont go in to that.....

I asked them about the shots and the shell casing, the way the blood was pooled, the number of shots etc. They had some interesting things to say.

They said that the entrance wound a gun makes is smaller going in and bigger coming out, That it could very well be that she was looking out the passenger window and he shot her in the back of the head (coward)from the drivers seat. She could have slumped back and then her body shoved over the middle console and into the back rear,

As far as the shots they mentioned a military procedure called "double tap" Two quick consecutive shots usually done to head and chest. They said that this "punk" probably had read about that since he was "into" hand guns and the shoots may have been his "attempt" at a double tap.

They also (surprisingly to me) were somewhat doubtful about the "sexual act" JH told LE about, They said if he was that hopped up on those alcohol/caffeine drinks he might have not been able to "perform" as he had hoped.

The only other interesting thing was when I described the robbery JH said had happened and what the robber said to him......two of them said at the same time...."that's probably something he said to his own victim.

So it was interesting hearing their thoughts. Such nice, caring young men, eager to help me with my questions and shaking their heads at the actions of JH :furious:



GLOW-- Great comments. Thanks for sharing that. But, take a different viewpoint.

But, did you ask the boys what they thought about how all the evidence of WH's belongings, SUV, etc were found so incredibly quickly over miles of neighborhoods in such as quick manner, basically in one day?

<modsnip>.

How about Holt hiding the gun at the police dept parking lot area? Was it just stupidity leaving it visibly in front of anyone in broad daylight? Or something else was controlling him to look dumb, as if to speed this whole crime process up quickly so LE can have everything handed conveniently to them?

And you'd think with the stress and anxiety of all the devastated family's involved, why would Amanda Holt file a rather speedy divorce filing with the court? You'd think she was thinking of herself. Just seems odd and out of character and an abrupt decision to make in the middle of all this chaos.

Amanda has'nt exactly boosted Holt's self esteem or spoken highly about her husband about anything with her comments. She has'nt to my knowledge really had anything positive to say about her husband, kind of making him sound like a bumbling, undependable husband with a host of issues. Thus, fueling the fire against him.

And Holt seems to be volunteering in ridiculous fashion all kinds of intel to implicate himself above and beyond what's necessary with a frantic, anxious appearance and actions. Maybe someone else is controlling Holt's fate?

Just saying, let's have the court filter these obvious, questionable "red flags" to get to the real justice needing be served. Whom ever it may be getting served.
 
While I tend to believe what LE says in the affidavit (because it's a sworn statement by those sworn to uphold the law), I don't tend to take the account of every witness as gospel truth simply because 'it's in the affidavit.' I only believe that is what that witness told police. There's a distinction. (And I will doubt witness accounts even more if/when I have evidence that contradicts their statements, which I foresee coming out in trial.) Honest mistakes as well as deception can happen in witness accounts.
In the end, only investigation might bear out the truth of what others offer up when interviewed by police in these situations.

I can understand and agree with that. I suppose I am also taking into account that CH has also stated that none of them were "close" or even "friends" for that matter. I just don't understand what bearing it would have on Amanda or Clint to both deny being close or even friends, rather than say "aquaintances". There too, is a distinction, IMO. I guess at this point, one could say/ask, does it matter if they were best friends or if they have just seen each other around? I am not so sure of that either. It could be huge, or it could just be nothing. I agree that investigating by the police will offer up more truth than witness accounts/statements in the end.
 
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