Oscar Pistorius Defense

[lisasalinger]

For Steve... You had posted on the discussion thread a question about why Oscar/Roux introduced double taps, was it speed or accuracy that they were addressing... I think it was both.

My opinion is that Mangena really threw them for a loop. I believe they thought they could make it look like a split second, spur of the moment non-thought out shooting. Maybe they didn't really fully understand how hard double taps are to do.

Dixon has been up there demonstrating how Reeva's arm was stretched out, reaching for the door handle (presumably after using toilet) and then boom, quick shots, no time to scream or react, they all hit her right at the door and as she was mid-fall.

I think theoretically, in their minds, the double taps could explain the shots being pretty well grouped together and they are using the splinters to say it all happened right at the door very quickly. Again, no time to react by Reeva and makes Oscar look like he panicked.

But... For some crazy reason they did not factor in the evidence on the toilet lid and lack of spray on the walls. It's basically impossible that her head was higher up when it was hit. Mangena was extremely compelling with his succession of hip shot, fall back on rack, slight pause during that time, then rest of shots.

It is not logical to me that Reeva didn't scream under those circumstances. I think it's actually physically difficult for somebody to be screaming in a blood-curdling nature while wielding a bat against a door. No question in my mind, those climaxing screams were Reeva's not Oscar's.

Now the Defense has Dixon on the stand testifying about shot sequence and rapid succession when he clearly is not qualified. This was a desperate defense move. They scrambled to get Wolmarans back to the range to re-record their gunfire tests just weeks ago and Dixon tried to hide that until Nel caught him.

They tried to get away with no reports or severely limited reports and got busted on that too. IMO, their defense has changed radically over the past two months as witnesses have testified, in particular Oscar. I think they are really struggling to keep up with his stories.

I really think that Dixon's testimony highlighted that the Defense is being shady, not sloppy.

Also, when Dixon slipped up at the end and revealed that he knew the Degense turned over his photos and that Wolmarans would have the boards at trial, he really made them look bad. The Judge sided with Nel on this and let him grill Dixon about how he knew those things. That last day of testimony was really a disaster for the defense, IMO.

 

[Interested Bystander]

That is a very good question.

I really wonder where that bat was at the start of the evening.

Was there not a press article after the crime which mentioned that many of his trophies appeared to be strewn around the living room as if they had been thrown around - it was noted that they were usually all neatly displayed in cabinets? This would fit with that - a huge fight which degenerated into throwing missiles and potentially Reeva being chased with said cricket bat.

I am on my way out but will try to see if I can find a link later.

None of the crime scene photos show any sign of a disturbance. I think the report (which I do remember) has to have been incorrect.

 

[BritsKate]

OK. So OP says he went to his bedroom to get the cricket bat, signed by a famed player of the sport, to take back to the bathroom.

Correct me if my recollection is in error, weren't all of OP's 'prized possessions' on display downstairs in his LR? Such as his trophies, medals, etc? He even had a signed glove and pic from Tyson?

I have a hockey stick, with signatures from the college kids that made up the gold medal US hockey olympic squad, from the 1980 games held in Lake Placid NY. I don't keep it in my bedroom.

Why would OP keep a signed cricket bat in his bedroom, when all other memorabilia was on display downstairs in his LR?

Assuming its the only cricket bat in his bedroom (he had a baseball bat and air rifle by the door too), his story is that he used the cricket bat to further secure his bedroom door, after locking it.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[jay-jay]

I don't believe OP would go to sleep with his gun under his very low bed, so he's lying about that imo. What does claiming the gun was under the bed, not on the low table beside the bed shown in pic below, gain him?

http://www.iol.co.za/polopoly_fs/bl...77.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_300/3203603877.jpg

He had to have the gun placed there, in his version, in order to give him the excuse not to have noticed whether Reeva was in bed or not .. if the gun had been on the bedside table (where we are led to understand it normally is), it then makes it harder for him to say he didn't notice (not that it even happened like that, anyway .. but he has had to try and tailor every little thing to fit the 'didn't notice Reeva had gone to the bathroom/toilet' story, and he's had a year to work on it)

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I don't believe OP would go to sleep with his gun under his very low bed, so he's lying about that imo. What does claiming the gun was under the bed, not on the low table beside the bed shown in pic below, gain him?

http://www.iol.co.za/polopoly_fs/bl...77.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_300/3203603877.jpg

I have puzzled about this as well and TBH have not really come up with anything.
I think it has been suggested that if he was bending down to grab something from under the bed he would have been less likely to have seen Reeva but I am not so sure that would make much difference .

 

[kittychi]

That is a very good question.

I really wonder where that bat was at the start of the evening.

Was there not a press article after the crime which mentioned that many of his trophies appeared to be strewn around the living room as if they had been thrown around - it was noted that they were usually all neatly displayed in cabinets? This would fit with that - a huge fight which degenerated into throwing missiles and potentially Reeva being chased with said cricket bat.

I am on my way out but will try to see if I can find a link later.

BBM: Yes there was an early press article about the trophies being in disarray, but a source was never named. There was also an early report that there were "signs of heavy drinking" but nothing ever came of it.

If either of these reports were true, IMO the Prosecution would have made a lot of hay of them and OP may never even have gotten bail. So I am afraid these early reports were false.

 

[screecher]

^ Perhaps they were. Or...like the phone thing...scrubbed.

 

[Interested Bystander]

BBM: Yes there was an early press article about the trophies being in disarray, but a source was never named. There was also an early report that there were "signs of heavy drinking" but nothing ever came of it.

If either of these reports were true, IMO the Prosecution would have made a lot of hay of them and OP may never even have gotten bail. So I am afraid these early reports were false.

I think this is the report:-

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...rius-trophies-were-strewn-all-over-death-flat

 

[Gbtaketwo]

BBM: Yes there was an early press article about the trophies being in disarray, but a source was never named. There was also an early report that there were "signs of heavy drinking" but nothing ever came of it.

If either of these reports were true, IMO the Prosecution would have made a lot of hay of them and OP may never even have gotten bail. So I am afraid these early reports were false.

I remember reading the report of trophies being broken and on the floor . I have dismissed it for the same reasons as you .

 

[steveml]

Does anyone have a realistic view as to why OP included the additional fan in his statement?

There have been a few suggestions that the fan/s were part of a story to give OP a reason to have his back towards the bed, and to explain that this is why he wouldn't have seen Reeva leaving the bed.

If OP has fabricated a story to include the extra fan, then I see this additional fan as a hindrance rather than a benefit.

With specific regard to OP's statement, the extra fan would make little or no difference to the time he spent on the balcony, as OP had never mentioned how long he spent on the balcony in his statement, therefore this could not be disproved. The reason I think it would be more of a hindrance is that it if OP was bringing two fans in, there is probably more opportunity that he could have turned round and spotted Reeva, thus making his explanation more, not less, difficult.

Any thoughts on this?


*I'm not entirely sure why any fans needed to be included at all as the whole scenario could have been explained away without introducing these.
That's a separate issue though. It would be interesting to hear views on the additional fan.

 

[kittychi]

Does anyone have a realistic view as to why OP included the additional fan in his statement?

There have been a few suggestions that the fan/s were part of a story to give OP a reason to have his back towards the bed, and to explain that this is why he wouldn't have seen Reeva leaving the bed.

If OP has fabricated a story to include the extra fan, then I see this additional fan as a hindrance rather than a benefit.

With specific regard to OP's statement, the extra fan would make little or no difference to the time he spent on the balcony, as OP had never mentioned how long he spent on the balcony in his statement, therefore this could not be disproved. The reason I think it would be more of a hindrance is that it if OP was bringing two fans in, there is probably more opportunity that he could have turned round and spotted Reeva, thus making his explanation more, not less, difficult.

Any thoughts on this?


*I'm not entirely sure why any fans needed to be included at all as the whole scenario could have been explained away without introducing these.
That's a separate issue though. It would be interesting to hear views on the additional fan.

Agreed, a very curious change by OP.

My original thought was that he wanted to create more time in his story to be away from view of the bed, but as you say, he never said how much time he spent on the balcony anyways.

Then in his testimony, he said he didn't really step OUT ONTO the balcony to get the fans, which to me makes it even MORE difficult for him.

Very, very puzzling to me also.

 

[Ncl1968]

I think he is staying away from idea of being on the balcony because I believe reeva was the one who went there to call for helpjjust before she got shot remember the door that leads to the stairs was locked that would explain his version of shouting for help on the balcony because that just rings bells for me that he would do that

 

[Interested Bystander]

Does anyone have a realistic view as to why OP included the additional fan in his statement?

There have been a few suggestions that the fan/s were part of a story to give OP a reason to have his back towards the bed, and to explain that this is why he wouldn't have seen Reeva leaving the bed.

If OP has fabricated a story to include the extra fan, then I see this additional fan as a hindrance rather than a benefit.

With specific regard to OP's statement, the extra fan would make little or no difference to the time he spent on the balcony, as OP had never mentioned how long he spent on the balcony in his statement, therefore this could not be disproved. The reason I think it would be more of a hindrance is that it if OP was bringing two fans in, there is probably more opportunity that he could have turned round and spotted Reeva, thus making his explanation more, not less, difficult.

Any thoughts on this?


*I'm not entirely sure why any fans needed to be included at all as the whole scenario could have been explained away without introducing these.
That's a separate issue though. It would be interesting to hear views on the additional fan.

I have a feeling it was to gain time to make his alibi stand up. Somewhere in the proceedings it has been stated that there was a degree of light at the end of the corridor leading from the bathroom to the connecting corridor to the bedroom (ambient light through the bathroom windows). He needed there to be enough time for RS to have disappeared round the corner towards the bathroom to make his alibi work. Though I cannot remember exactly where /when this information (the ambient light) appeared, I think it was probably stated by one of the DT witnesses, possibly Dixon.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I think he is staying away from idea of being on the balcony because I believe reeva was the one who went there to call for helpjjust before she got shot remember the door that leads to the stairs was locked that would explain his version of shouting for help on the balcony because that just rings bells for me that he would do that

Didn't one of the witness state that they heard a man shout help help help and a woman shout help help help ?

 

[IfIMay]

Agreed, a very curious change by OP.

My original thought was that he wanted to create more time in his story to be away from view of the bed, but as you say, he never said how much time he spent on the balcony anyways.

Then in his testimony, he said he didn't really step OUT ONTO the balcony to get the fans, which to me makes it even MORE difficult for him.

Very, very puzzling to me also.

he was probably anticipating a 'gotcha' from Nel and over-embellished his story. liar's mistake.. too much is as indicative of lying as too little.

 

[Ncl1968]

Didn't one of the witness state that they heard a man shout help help help and a woman shout help help help ?

Oscar claims he shouted help don't forget he sounds like a woman when he wants I doubt he shouted help at all but covered his tracks

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Agreed, a very curious change by OP.

My original thought was that he wanted to create more time in his story to be away from view of the bed, but as you say, he never said how much time he spent on the balcony anyways.

Then in his testimony, he said he didn't really step OUT ONTO the balcony to get the fans, which to me makes it even MORE difficult for him.

Very, very puzzling to me also.

Tha balcony light was on. Reeva is said to be on the balcony side of bed.
If he had stepped OUT ONTO the balcony, he would grab the fan and would see the bed while coming in /moving forward not backward/balcony light lighting the bedroom , his face toward the bed before closing the curtains. Improbable not seeing the bed.
Also he could not hear the alleged window noise from balcony . Improbable again. Fan was an instrument to be on the balcony but it wouldn't work.

In the testimony putting the fan in between the balcony door entrance, he is supposed to grab the fan between the curtains and he is moving inside
the alleged dark bedroom his back toward the bed and then put the fan.
There is no coming in from the lights on balcony with open curtains.

As for two fans thing ,imo he needed to create more time and movement inside busy with the fans and the jeans on the floor and covering the led light etc so as Reeva to go to the toilet inbetween and him allegedly not noticing.. :facepalm:

 

[BritsKate]

Didn't one of the witness state that they heard a man shout help help help and a woman shout help help help ?

Michelle Burger and Charl Johnson heard a man yell for help 3 times before the second set of bangs at 3:17. Under a grueling cross, Burger suggested it was a mockery, when Roux asked why Pistorius would call for help before shots were fired. Johnson heard a woman yelling for help too. He stated the man's was more monotone, the woman's more fearful when Roux suggested Johnson had heard only Pistorius.

Stipp heard a man crying for help after hearing a second set of only 3 bangs. He'd heard a woman screaming 3-4 times after an initial set of bangs which woke him. Annette Stipp heard a man screaming the same time as a woman but couldn't make out the words.

IIRC.

 

[Ncl1968]

Michelle Burger and Charl Johnson heard a man yell for help 3 times before the second set of bangs at 3:17. Under a grueling cross, Burger suggested it was a mockery, when Roux asked why Pistorius would call for help before shots were fired. Johnson heard a woman yelling for help too. He stated the man's was more monotone, the woman's more fearful when Roux suggested Johnson had heard only Pistorius.

Stipp heard a man crying for help after hearing a second set of only 3 bangs. He'd heard a woman screaming 3-4 times after an initial set of bangs which woke him. Annette Stipp heard a man screaming the same time as a woman but couldn't make out the words.

IIRC.

maybee I am wrong with my theory on op not going to balcony I just think its strange thing to do when security called op he said all is fine???
Something doesn't sit right with that picture

 

[BritsKate]

maybee I am wrong with my theory on op not going to balcony I just think its strange thing to do when security called op he said all is fine???
Something doesn't sit right with that picture

It depends when he called for help. Only he knows if he actually went onto the balcony or not (I think not) but if he yelled for help before he shot Reeva it could have been part of an argument that spun out of control. Reeva screams for help, he mocks her.

This seems so unconscionable, some struggle to wrap their minds around it, but many who have been in abusive or toxic relationships do not find mockery or ridicule abnormal in a heated argument.

Remember, by attempting to explain away Burger and Johnson's testimony, it at least appears OP concedes that version of events is what happened. By his own account he yelled for help before the 2nd set of bangs at 3:17 (his breaking the door down; the State's gunshots).

JMO