Oscar Pistorius Defense

[lithgow1]

One could reasonably expect that if it was the first step in obeying the instructions that an intruder would announce their intentions and ask if they could come out. If I'm on the inside of a door and someone is hysterically screaming me for me to get the F* out of their house that last thing I am going to do is silently open the door and move towards that screaming person.

I'll say this if I knew an intruder was in my home and I was all that stood between them and my loved one and they decided to open a door that stood between us it would not end well for them.

Re the last sentence: you say if you knew there was an intruder; OP didn't know. He assumed. He didn't even try to find out who it was. What if it had been a child, as Nel suggested. Since you're putting yourself in his place, would you have fired before you even saw what this supposed threat was? If yes, then it seems likely you'd end up in court too, especially when it turned out there was no intruder.

 

[Viper]

Oscar claims that he interpreted the noise he heard as the door of the toilet opening which meant the intruder was moving further into his home in what could only reasonably be interpreted as a move of aggression, it would not be unreasonable to think that the intruder is of ill will at this point.

BIB. That is what he is saying now, but it does not pass the smell test. Remember that OP says the police moved the mag rack over to the blood pool and set it in the blood pool. So OPs story is the mag rack was actually close to the door on the right side wall. Crazy. He is using the wood sound of the mag rack to say the intruder was opening the toilet door to come out and kill him and Reeva in one breath, and in the next breath he is saying that he did not shoot at the wood sound behind the door (his imaginary intruder made the sound) because all of his bullets went to the left side of the WC, away from where he says the mag rack was located and where unfortunately the intruder happened to be standing. How did the intruder make the mag rack, over on the right side wall, produce a wood sound when Reeva was standing to the left side? Hmm...

Oh, and the gun accidentally fired four times too, OP never intentionally fired any of the four bullets in putative self defense, according to OP himself.

This case is about to be over, OPs defense case is not going very well.

 

[DebinGA]

I don't think RS got to see much of the charming Oscar considering the total length of their dating before he murdered her was all of 3 months and their pattern of miscommunication and his tantrums seemed to happen rather frequently.

But none of his behaviors are a defense and so whatever personality deficits he has will certainly not help him in his defense. ("M'lady, I'm a jerk and scoundrel and I do jerky things cause that's how I roll. So how bout it, M'lady? One free pass & I promise never to do this again?")

I guess the judge is duty bound to look at only the evidence re Reeva's death, but she's also heard of a number of near misses of innocents in OP's reckless path. I hope she decides he represents a clear and present danger if allowed to roam free anytime soon, and doesn't give him the same benefit of a doubt/s she'd give a saner defendant.

 

[TorisMom003]

I don't understand how anyone can really believe that the gun "accidentally" went off four times when there was a pause between the first shot and the last three. After the first "accidental" shot, wouldn't the person (OP) remove their finger from the trigger? But then again, according to OP, the guns in his hands have a tendency to go off without his finger being anywhere near the trigger.......Tashas incident.

The "accidental" shooting also does away with the private putative defense. If the shooting was "accidental" then OP can't claim self defense. This also means that OP is expecting to walk away with no prison time at all and no probation either. The private putative defense would mean a guilty verdict for culpable homicide and at least probation if not prison time as well.

MOO

 

[Carmelita]

From that link:

"More than a year after he shot dead girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in the early hours of Valentine's Day - he finally had the chance to tell his side of the story."

BBM

OP had plenty of chances to tell his side of the story before the trial, he just chose not to. If this had truly been an accident, he would have spoken to police and given them his statement immediately. Instead he decided to wait until he could have a look at the evidence the State had and then tailor his versions to "fit" the evidence.

That article, especially the video, seems to be in support of OP. To bad there isn't an unbiased reporter doing the article instead.

MOO

Robert Shapiro who IMO could charm a snake out of its skin and is as top notch of a defense attorney as exists, gives this free advice to any potential defendant regardless of their guilt or innocence, “say nothing to anyone, you shuold only speak of this matter through your attorney”. I am not addressing Shapiro’s character or the clients who he chooses to represent, I am saying that his advice is spot on for any one accused of a crime, guilty or innocent. The jails house the innocent as well as the guilty. Innocence is no guarantee of a not guilty verdict.

 

[TorisMom003]

I guess the judge is duty bound to look at only the evidence re Reeva's death, but she's also heard of a number of near misses of innocents in OP's reckless path. I hope she decides he represents a clear and present danger if allowed to roam free anytime soon, and doesn't give him the same benefit of a doubt/s she'd give a saner defendant.

Unfortunately for OP some of his near misses will be considered by the judge because of the additional three charges on top of the murder charge. The Tashas incident, the sunroof of the car incident and the illegal ammunition in his safe all point to OP not being a responsible gun owner. I feel sure the judge will find him guilty of at least two of those three charges. The sunroof car one she might be unsure of since it is clearly the word of OP against two of his (ex) "friends". However, since OP clearly has lied on the stand it may be difficult for the judge to justify believing OP.

MOO

 

[DebinGA]

I don't understand how anyone can really believe that the gun "accidentally" went off four times when there was a pause between the first shot and the last three. After the first "accidental" shot, wouldn't the person (OP) remove their finger from the trigger? But then again, according to OP, the guns in his hands have a tendency to go off without his finger being anywhere near the trigger.......Tashas incident.

The "accidental" shooting also does away with the private putative defense. If the shooting was "accidental" then OP can't claim self defense. This also means that OP is expecting to walk away with no prison time at all and no probation either. The private putative defense would mean a guilty verdict for culpable homicide and at least probation if not prison time as well.

MOO

Oscar Pistorius's Trigger: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2014/04/oscar-pistoriuss-trigger.html

Good gun info and OP quotes.

 

[TorisMom003]

Robert Shapiro who IMO could charm a snake out of its skin and is as top notch of a defense attorney as exists, gives this free advice to any potential defendant regardless of their guilt or innocence, “say nothing to anyone, you shuold only speak of this matter through your attorney”. I am not addressing Shapiro’s character or the clients who he chooses to represent, I am saying that his advice is spot on for any one accused of a crime, guilty or innocent. The jails house the innocent as well as the guilty. Innocence is no guarantee of a not guilty verdict.

While that is true, OP should have felt compelled to tell his story to police when they arrived on scene. In fact, he should have felt compelled to phone police himself. Heck, I'll go even further and say that OP should have felt compelled to get Reeva medical help IMMEDIATELY after he shot her however he didn't.

I don't view OP as innocent or not guilty. When the man lies on the stand about the other three charges he is on trial for, things that he knows good and well that he is in fact guilty of, then I have no sympathy for him and the situation he finds himself in. He did this to himself. Reeva's family deserves the truth. OP's family deserves the truth. And instead of telling the truth, he lies to try and get away with his crimes.

MOO

 

[Carmelita]

Re the last sentence: you say if you knew there was an intruder; OP didn't know. He assumed. He didn't even try to find out who it was. What if it had been a child, as Nel suggested. Since you're putting yourself in his place, would you have fired before you even saw what this supposed threat was? If yes, then it seems likely you'd end up in court too, especially when it turned out there was no intruder.

You know that could be although our self defense laws here are little more subjective than SA.

I already stated what I would do in a scenario as close as I could imagine myself coming to the scenario that Oscar presents.

First I wouldn't be in that position as I would know without a doubt where my loved one was before I would shoot, second if I knew my loved one was safely behind me and I knew that we were the only two in my home I would have my loved one dialing 911 while I trained my gun on the doorway entering the bedroom, I would remain in the bedroom proper, I would announce that I had a gun trained on the doorway and would shoot anyone coming through it, third if I heard someone coming I would repeat my warning, if they came through the door I would shoot.

Now what is the chance that it is an innocent child who climbed into a second story window and was rustling about in my bathroom was without a word proceeding into my bedroom? Very low almost to the point of zero, what is the chance that it is an intruder with ill intent, very high.

I could not live with myself if I allowed my loved one to be attacked when I had the opportunity to prevent that attack.

What is the chance of it being a deaf mute or a lost child not high enough for me to risk endangering the very life and body of my loved one. I will not assume an intruder at 3 am is of good will or a hapless innocent.

Again I have never stated Oscar acted reasonably.

 

[Giles]

Video: Most Dramatic Moments of the Trial So Far

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-most-3474293

... maybe if OP picked the clips; otherwise, no.

Thanks for the link. What a wierd selection of clips?

 

[Carmelita]

BIB. That is what he is saying now, but it does not pass the smell test. Remember that OP says the police moved the mag rack over to the blood pool and set it in the blood pool. So OPs story is the mag rack was actually close to the door on the right side wall. Crazy. He is using the wood sound of the mag rack to say the intruder was opening the toilet door to come out and kill him and Reeva in one breath, and in the next breath he is saying that he did not shoot at the wood sound behind the door (his imaginary intruder made the sound) because all of his bullets went to the left side of the WC, away from where he says the mag rack was located and where unfortunately the intruder happened to be standing. How did the intruder make the mag rack, over on the right side wall, produce a wood sound when Reeva was standing to the left side? Hmm...

Oh, and the gun accidentally fired four times too, OP never intentionally fired any of the four bullets in putative self defense, according to OP himself.

This case is about to be over, OPs defense case is not going very well.

He has said in hindsight he believes that it may have been the magazine rack moving that he thought was the door opening. If you really parse Oscar's words and define the whole content of his testimony he in the long run did not say that the gun fired accidentally. He said in the "split second" that he fired the gun he meant only to protect himself and Reeva.

 

[Viper]

He has said in hindsight he believes that it may have been the magazine rack moving that he thought was the door opening. If you really parse Oscar's words and define the whole content of his testimony he in the long run did not say that the gun fired accidentally. He said in the "split second" that he fired the gun he meant only to protect himself and Reeva.

BIB. You are only speaking to one point and that one point alone will not be examined by the court in some isolated vaccum. There is more than one point with regards to what OP says about the mag rack. Most of the key points are in my original post above.

 

[wb180]

He has said in hindsight he believes that it may have been the magazine rack moving that he thought was the door opening. If you really parse Oscar's words and define the whole content of his testimony he in the long run did not say that the gun fired accidentally. He said in the "split second" that he fired the gun he meant only to protect himself and Reeva.

Nel asked a direct question. We shouldnt need to parse his words. He was being evasive.

 

[katydid23]

Oscar claims that he interpreted the noise he heard as the door of the toilet opening which meant the intruder was moving further into his home in what could only reasonably be interpreted as a move of aggression, it would not be unreasonable to think that the intruder is of ill will at this point.

I thought he said he heard the toilet door slam? That sounds like the 'intruder' was isolating themselves in the cubicle.

The real question is WHY he interpreted that noise to be that of an intruder, instead of that of his girlfriend. That seems like an unreasonable assumption on his part.

 

[DebinGA]

Nel asked a direct question. We shouldnt need to parse his words. He was being evasive.

I bet extreme narcissists like OP are also pathological liars, even when lying harms them. OP may feel compelled to lie whenever he senses control of a situation is slipping away from him. OP hearing the toilet door slam shut, didn't make an appearance until OP was on the stand. Asked why it wasn't in either the bail affi or plea statement by Nel, OP blamed his lawyers for not including it. OP is a congenital liar who lies effortlessly whenever he feels cornered.

 

[Carmelita]

BIB. You are only speaking to one point and that one point alone will not be examined by the court in some isolated vaccum. There is more than one point with regards to what OP says about the mag rack. Most of the key points are in my original post above.

Fair enough I will expound on all your points. A) I don’t necessarily agree that it does not pass the smell test, there are incidentals where Oscar’s story does not fit like laser cut car mats but the essential core of his story is possible B) The magazine rack was moved there are pictures of it in 2 different places in the toilet room C) Your correlation between shots fired and where the magazine rack was located is not evidence of Oscar willfully and deliberately shooting Reeva, (it is considered a "slippery slope" conclusion) the angle of the gun shots indicate that Oscar was in as a protective of a place as he could be in to avoid first fire or return fire. What Oscar heard as to Reevas movements is unknown, we only have Oscar’s stated recollection of the event, which by any scenario is questionable as he was pumped up with adrenaline and acting on either rage or fear.

 

[Carmelita]

I thought he said he heard the toilet door slam? That sounds like the 'intruder' was isolating themselves in the cubicle.

The real question is WHY he interpreted that noise to be that of an intruder, instead of that of his girlfriend. That seems like an unreasonable assumption on his part.

It is possible that Reeva opened the window and this is the first sound Oscar heard, Oscar started screaming about an intruder and for Reeva to call the police and then Reeva slammed the door, thereby making what Oscar claimed he heard not outside of the realm of possibility.

I do agree that the real question is why he interpreted the first noise as an intruder unless he truthfully believed that Reeva was in bed which again lends credibility to Oscars version of events.

 

[Carmelita]

Nel asked a direct question. We shouldnt need to parse his words. He was being evasive.

Nel asked all kinds of leading questions with theory posed as facts. He basically asked Oscar every which way he could, "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Other than his refusal to admit to obvious truths such as pulling the trigger at the restaurant IMO Oscar did very well on the stand given Nel's fanciful questioning.

Oscar stuck to the core of his story. Nel was visibly frustrated that he didn't break Oscar.

Oh and when Nel demanded that Oscar admit that he killed Reeva, Oscar simply said "I did Milady". It was Nel's verbal theatrics that caused Oscar to give longer and longer answers. For which Nel then criticized Oscar for giving long answers.

 

[Lyra500]

You're preaching to the choir, Lyra500. See my post directly above.

Apologies.

I thought you were suggesting that was a reasonable defence - I have read too many posts along those lines and so I am afraid I jumped in.

 

[Viper]

It is possible that Reeva opened the window and this is the first sound Oscar heard, Oscar started screaming about an intruder and for Reeva to call the police and then Reeva slammed the door, thereby making what Oscar claimed he heard not outside of the realm of possibility.

I do agree that the real question is why he interpreted the first noise as an intruder unless he truthfully believed that Reeva was in bed which again lend credibility to Oscars version of events.

BIB That is the first sound that OP says he heard, the window sliding open. So at that moment he dropped the jeans and armed himself and slooowly went down the hall like a Ninja, deliberate with every move. The trouble is time. There was not enough time from when he dropped the jeans and fired four bullets for Reeva to have opened the window, entered the WC, closed the door, locked the door, emptied her bladder, finished up, pulled up her shorts, heard OP yelling "Get the freak out of my house," moved the mag rack and producing a "wood sound," moved to the left of the WC at the precise moment that she also moved the mag rack, and then be blasted with four bullets through the door. Not enough time for all of that to have happened.