Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #69 *Appeal Verdict*

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Pistorius appeal on murder conviction

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-35285390

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/af...s-applies-appeal-murder-conviction-court.html

"We have lodged an application for leave to appeal to the Constitutional Court," Andrew Fawcett, a lawyer on Pistorius's legal team, told AFP.

"The application has been served on the director of public prosecutions, and they will now indicate when they will be opposing the application and what the grounds of opposition will be."
 
Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan
State has ten days to respond to #OscarPistorius appeal attempt. Prosecutors expected to argue he has no chance of success @eNCA

Note that the 10 days is 10 'court days' e.g. excludes weekends and public holidays, so that would take us to 25 Jan.

Once state has lodged papers, Constitutional Court will decide if it will hear #OscarAppeal. That decision can take a month, on average

#OscarPistorius appeal rests on argument that SCA should never have heard state appeal against his murder acquittal @eNCA

#OscarPistorius appeal is being funded by his family. He has revealed that he has no money left, after costs of his trial @eNCA
 
Interesting. Are we back to questions of law vs fact?

Or Seekoei?
 
"His lawyers say the appeals court made fundamental errors, claiming in appeal papers that the court "acted unlawfully and unconstitutionally when it rejected the factual finding of the Trial Court and replaced it with a contrary factual finding of its own".



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-35285390
 
Interesting. Are we back to questions of law vs fact?

Or Seekoei?
BIB I thought Roux accepted that Seekoei wasn't relevant any more at the SCA?

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan
Not Seekoei. They're arguing SCA wrongly overturned Masipa factual findings that Pistorius acted out of fear.
 
So, who knew that fear gave people the right to shoot? He is hoping to make history again, obviously.
 
I would imagine the Justices of the ConCourt are well aware already of the legal details of this ongoing ‘fiasco’ and know equally well that they must be of the opinion that there has to be reasonable prospect that the appeal may succeed before granting any leave to appeal.

Given that I would imagine that as reported in the media the average time line of one month to decide whether to grant leave to appeal or not is probably realistic.

So in theory they could give an answer by say the end of February. What will be interesting is, if leave to appeal is refused will Pistorius still be allowed to remain on bail until late April as a convicted murderer with no more avenues of appeal open to him.
 
I would imagine the Justices of the ConCourt are well aware already of the legal details of this ongoing ‘fiasco’ and know equally well that they must be of the opinion that there has to be reasonable prospect that the appeal may succeed before granting any leave to appeal.

Given that I would imagine that as reported in the media the average time line of one month to decide whether to grant leave to appeal or not is probably realistic.

So in theory they could give an answer by say the end of February. What will be interesting is, if leave to appeal is refused will Pistorius still be allowed to remain on bail until late April as a convicted murderer with no more avenues of appeal open to him.
BIB - I wonder that as well. He's keeping a low profile now that he doesn't have to demean himself doing any community work. However, if leave to appeal is refused, he should be marched straight back to jail and consider himself lucky he's had months of freedom as a convicted murderer. I do think the P family are busy considering how they can use this time wisely to invent something which prevents him going back to jail. Perhaps a fake suicide attempt? Yes, I am cynical, but considering the lengths his family have gone to in order to support him... removing items from a crime scene and wiping phone evidence for example... I don't really think there are any boundaries they're not prepared to cross.
 
I would imagine the Justices of the ConCourt are well aware already of the legal details of this ongoing ‘fiasco’ and know equally well that they must be of the opinion that there has to be reasonable prospect that the appeal may succeed before granting any leave to appeal.

Given that I would imagine that as reported in the media the average time line of one month to decide whether to grant leave to appeal or not is probably realistic.

So in theory they could give an answer by say the end of February. What will be interesting is, if leave to appeal is refused will Pistorius still be allowed to remain on bail until late April as a convicted murderer with no more avenues of appeal open to him.

I'll go on the record and say that there is no doubt that this case will be heard by the ConCourt. Even if the ConCourt denies this application, Oscar has already said he will go to the Chief Justice of this court, so look forward to some more legal arguments.
 
I'll go on the record and say that there is no doubt that this case will be heard by the ConCourt. Even if the ConCourt denies this application, Oscar has already said he will go to the Chief Justice of this court, so look forward to some more legal arguments.

I'll go on the record and say he's fighting a losing battle.
 
I'll go on the record and say that there is no doubt that this case will be heard by the ConCourt. Even if the ConCourt denies this application, Oscar has already said he will go to the Chief Justice of this court, so look forward to some more legal arguments.

If the ConCourt refuses to hear OP's appeal, he may approach C.J. Mogoeng Mogoeng directly and ask him to reconsider. Not doubting that would happen, it being within his rights, but has he already said that though (link please)?
 
I'll go on the record and say that there is no doubt that this case will be heard by the ConCourt. Even if the ConCourt denies this application, Oscar has already said he will go to the Chief Justice of this court, so look forward to some more legal arguments.

It would be interesting to hear your reason as to why you think there is ‘no doubt' the ConCourt will entertain this appeal as in contrast I can’t see this happening.

Currently there appears to be two views from the Pistorius legal team for approaching the ConCourt. Firstly ‘the SCA should not have heard the appeal’ and secondly they are arguing the SCA wrongly overturned Masipa factual findings that Pistorius acted out of fear.

The first argument is in my opinion perverse. There may have been some merit in this approach if the trial judge had refused leave to appeal and the SCA had been petitioned directly but this was not the case. Masipa granted leave to appeal in respect of questions of law that had arisen in her court which in her opinion needed consideration by the SCA. It is then incumbent on the SCA to consider these questions of law reserved; to simply refuse such a request would fly in the face of the purpose of having an appellate court.

Secondly to argue that the SCA overturned Masipa’s finding of fact that Pistorius was ‘fearful’ is incorrect in my opinion.

During the appeal Justice Baartman noted that a person can’t simply use ‘anxiety’ as an excuse for firing four times through a closed door, but she did not dispute the trial court finding that Pistorius was fearful or anxious.

During the reading of the judgement Justice Leach was at pains to point out several times the limitations of the SCA in this case in respect of not interfering with Masipa’s findings of facts. Therefore it would be perverse for experienced SCA justices to then do exactly the opposite.

I would imagine the Pistorius defence team are hanging their hat on the single phrase in para 54 of the judgement where Justice Leach says ‘he fired without having a rationale or genuine fear his life was in danger’ which the defence may well consider overturns Masipa’s finding that Pistorius was indeed fearful. If this is the case they really are clutching at straws because previous to this statement Justice Leach accepts the accused may well have been frightened when he armed himself but then goes on to say there was no genuine reason for this ‘fear’ nor was it the product of rational thought. In essence Justice Leach is merely questioning the reason for this ‘fear’ but most importantly he does not question its existence because should he have done so then he would be overturning Masipa’s finding that Pistorius was ‘fearful.’ This he was careful not to do.

So, bearing in mind that before granting leave to appeal the ConCourt has to be of the opinion there is a reasonable prospect of the appeal succeeding then I cannot imagine for one moment an appeal being entertained on such flimsy grounds
 
It would be interesting to hear your reason as to why you think there is ‘no doubt' the ConCourt will entertain this appeal as in contrast I can’t see this happening.

Currently there appears to be two views from the Pistorius legal team for approaching the ConCourt. Firstly ‘the SCA should not have heard the appeal’ and secondly they are arguing the SCA wrongly overturned Masipa factual findings that Pistorius acted out of fear.

The first argument is in my opinion perverse. There may have been some merit in this approach if the trial judge had refused leave to appeal and the SCA had been petitioned directly but this was not the case. Masipa granted leave to appeal in respect of questions of law that had arisen in her court which in her opinion needed consideration by the SCA. It is then incumbent on the SCA to consider these questions of law reserved; to simply refuse such a request would fly in the face of the purpose of having an appellate court.

Secondly to argue that the SCA overturned Masipa’s finding of fact that Pistorius was ‘fearful’ is incorrect in my opinion.

During the appeal Justice Baartman noted that a person can’t simply use ‘anxiety’ as an excuse for firing four times through a closed door, but she did not dispute the trial court finding that Pistorius was fearful or anxious.

During the reading of the judgement Justice Leach was at pains to point out several times the limitations of the SCA in this case in respect of not interfering with Masipa’s findings of facts. Therefore it would be perverse for experienced SCA justices to then do exactly the opposite.

I would imagine the Pistorius defence team are hanging their hat on the single phrase in para 54 of the judgement where Justice Leach says ‘he fired without having a rationale or genuine fear his life was in danger’ which the defence may well consider overturns Masipa’s finding that Pistorius was indeed fearful. If this is the case they really are clutching at straws because previous to this statement Justice Leach accepts the accused may well have been frightened when he armed himself but then goes on to say there was no genuine reason for this ‘fear’ nor was it the product of rational thought. In essence Justice Leach is merely questioning the reason for this ‘fear’ but most importantly he does not question its existence because should he have done so then he would be overturning Masipa’s finding that Pistorius was ‘fearful.’ This he was careful not to do.

So, bearing in mind that before granting leave to appeal the ConCourt has to be of the opinion there is a reasonable prospect of the appeal succeeding then I cannot imagine for one moment an appeal being entertained on such flimsy grounds

OP team must be clutching at straws altogether, since it has taken them this long to dream up grounds (excuses) on which to appeal. If the grounds were stronger or more self-evident, surely the appeal would have been lodged way earlier.

Aaaand- being a convicted murderer, it beggars belief that he's not been jailed while all of the legal processes play out. IM (not very) HO!
 
https://twitter.com/karynmaughan

#OscarPistorius lawyers argue SCA acted "unconstitutionally" when it rejected finding that OP believed his and Reeva's life were in danger

Check out her twitter feed for snapshots of parts of the Leave to Appeal
https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/686830224164712448
https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/686831220282503168
https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/686832001463267332
https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/686833960861712384
https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/686834945290047489
https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/686836596725968896

38. It is respectfully submitted that if the Applicant genuinely, albeit erroneously believed that an intruder was in the toilet, who posed a threat to his life and that of the Deceased, it does not matter in law that the Applicant foresaw and reconciled himself with the intruder's death, as the very requisite knowledge of unlawfulness remains absent. This forms the very substance of putative private defence.

Is Roux hoping to get the original conviction overturned as well?

https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/686837659642236928
https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/686838864451899392
https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/686840320663916544

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan
#OscarPistorius lawyers: SCA unfairly discriminated against him on basis of his"disability, vulnerability, anxiety"
#OscarPistorius lawyers argue Appeal Court wrong to treat him like able-bodied person and find his behavior in shooting was irrational

Hopefully we'll have a link to the full document shortly.
 
I'll go on the record and say that there is no doubt that this case will be heard by the ConCourt. Even if the ConCourt denies this application, Oscar has already said he will go to the Chief Justice of this court, so look forward to some more legal arguments.

Pistorius's lawyer Barry Roux had previously indicated that they intended to file an appeal with the Constitutional Court, and if that was unsuccessful they would return to the High Court for sentencing.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/O...torius-heads-to-constitutional-court-20160111


Why Oscar's appeal to the Constitutional Court will fail

If the Constitutional Court refuses to hear Pistorius' appeal‚ he may approach Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng directly

But lawyer Ulrich Roux said Pistorius can only base his application on grounds emanating from the SCA's ruling and this excludes the infringement of his right to a fair trial.

Curlewis‚ Roux and criminal defence lawyer William Booth all believe Pistorius' chances of success in the Constitutional Court are slim.

Curlewis said that if the Constitutional Court refuses to hear Pistorius' appeal‚ he may approach Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng directly and ask him to reconsider.

http://www.rdm.co.za/politics/2015/12/09/why-oscar-s-appeal-to-the-constitutional-court-will-fail
 
Pistorius's lawyer Barry Roux had previously indicated that they intended to file an appeal with the Constitutional Court, and if that was unsuccessful they would return to the High Court for sentencing.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/O...torius-heads-to-constitutional-court-20160111


Why Oscar's appeal to the Constitutional Court will fail

If the Constitutional Court refuses to hear Pistorius' appeal‚ he may approach Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng directly

But lawyer Ulrich Roux said Pistorius can only base his application on grounds emanating from the SCA's ruling and this excludes the infringement of his right to a fair trial.

Curlewis‚ Roux and criminal defence lawyer William Booth all believe Pistorius' chances of success in the Constitutional Court are slim.

Curlewis said that if the Constitutional Court refuses to hear Pistorius' appeal‚ he may approach Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng directly and ask him to reconsider.

http://www.rdm.co.za/politics/2015/12/09/why-oscar-s-appeal-to-the-constitutional-court-will-fail
BIB - whatever happens to the convicted murderer, he's washed up now and despised by the masses who saw through his lies to the ugly person beneath them. The majority of people recognise him for what he is - a devious narcissistic lying murderer with no moral compass whatsoever. He's done. Finished. Having said that, I hope he does go back to jail where he can stay out of the public eye and do some proper time for the crime he committed - murder.
 
BIB - whatever happens to the convicted murderer, he's washed up now and despised by the masses who saw through his lies to the ugly person beneath them. The majority of people recognise him for what he is - a devious narcissistic lying murderer with no moral compass whatsoever. He's done. Finished. Having said that, I hope he does go back to jail where he can stay out of the public eye and do some proper time for the crime he committed - murder.

And so say all of us ... correction, 99.9% of us.
 
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