Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 6.13.2016 #2

[mrjitty]

Nel could have at least played the youtube video of Oscar being very quick and agile on his stumps.

Since he knows Masippa wants to be very lenient with Oscar. Jmo.

Even if she had made a mistake in the first trial in regards to the law. She still only sentenced him to 1 year jail time for the most part. Because she knew the 5yrs would only be 1yr in jail . Jmo.

So she really didn't feel that he honestly did anything wrong that warranted a long sentence Iregardless of how she interpretated things. Jmo

I don't think Nel is allowed to play the YouTube video.

And I agree with you.

Masipa sees it as a "peculiar incident" for which one year prison was enough.

If you read her judgement carefully I think you can see that she does not actually believe Oscar's story - rather than Oscar is lying but not necessarily guilty.

The trouble is that if the Judge feels that way - no words from Nel will change it.

So he correctly focussed on showing the Judge how clearly the law boxes her in on sentencing options for murder

It should also be remembered that a key role of Counsel is to provide the Court with the correct sentencing principles and authorities

So Nel focussed on his job, rather than telling the Judge what to think

 

[DexterMorgan]

I don't think Nel is allowed to play the YouTube video.

And I agree with you.

Masipa sees it as a "peculiar incident" for which one year prison was enough.

If you read her judgement carefully I think you can see that she does not actually believe Oscar's story - rather than Oscar is lying but not necessarily guilty.

The trouble is that if the Judge feels that way - no words from Nel will change it.

So he correctly focussed on showing the Judge how clearly the law boxes her in on sentencing options for murder

It should also be remembered that a key role of Counsel is to provide the Court with the correct sentencing principles and authorities

So Nel focussed on his job, rather than telling the Judge what to think

Agree. Nel embarrassed Masippa by winning his appeal case of how she tried to manipulate the law (as if she didnt understand it). So Masipa is not happy with Nel at all.

So I truly don't think that Nel should be expecting a Christmas card from Masipa anytime soon. Lol.

 

[aftermath]

the consequence of the deceased is she lost her most valuable asset.. she can not walk in to this court
I think that's what Nel said. Simple. Canceled out all the stumbling,leaning,cry me a river-ing OP did. JMO

I see what you are saying, but I do think that Nel was deliberately playing an emotive card there. I appreciate that some would say this was fair enough given that Pistorius had displayed his disability in court , but ultimately, reminding the court that Reeva is sadly unable to walk anywhere anymore as she is dead, doesn't -imo- make Pistorius's disability any less significant.

 

[JudgeJudi]

<RSBM>

Remember the reconstruction video that the prosecution team had prepared by an American company, The Evidence Room, to "visually map" that night?

However, I do know that all full copies of the video seemed to have been "cleaned" from the Internet...except this one:

[video=dailymotion;x211pto]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x211pto_oscar-pistorius-sunday-night-2014-07-06_news[/video]

and this one:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvwE8629Z9tGnUugp3RId4W0RJ2OTPjFJ

It's good to have an ace up your sleeve.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I see what you are saying, but I do think that Nel was deliberately playing an emotive card there. I appreciate that some would say this was fair enough given that Pistorius had displayed his disability in court , but ultimately, reminding the court that Reeva is sadly unable to walk anywhere anymore as she is dead, doesn't -imo- make Pistorius's disability any less significant.

Since the man ran in the Olympics with the best of the best. Tells us that his disability does not disable him from achieving what most cant. Plus he will have his prosthetic legs in jail like he did the last time. Jmo.

So his disability is insignificant. Especially in regards to why he should pay for how he trapped and killed Reeva. Jmo.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Did the live in guy ever testify. Or did he just vanish. Didnt him or Oscar carry her downstairs before the security guard or neighbor show up.

Where is the Kato live in house guest.

 

[soozieqtips]

Apparently she doesn't think she was played... or was viewed in a negative light because of her faulty ruling.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/14/oscar-pistorius-trial-thokozile-masipa-judge

"Masipa rejected the premise that she had a negative image. “I do not think the criticism was about me at all,” she replied. “It was about the outcome. Because people were expecting a different outcome, they were just expressing frustration. I don’t think I’m stigmatised … perhaps I am too naive about that."

That was before the SCA publicly overturned her verdict though. Couple that with the fact she must know if the killer was to have hobbled round at that snail's pace on the night of the murder, we'd still be waiting for the trial to begin!

 

[cottonweaver]

It's good to have an ace up your sleeve.

Thanks JJ, I just watched it .
[video=youtube;y4rjZH2EXtU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4rjZH2EXtU&list=PLvwE8629Z9tGnUugp3RId4W0RJ2OTPjFJ&index=2[/video]

It's a joke isn't it. He is so comfortable on stumps.
IMO they leaked this in order to show the public his stumps, for sympathy, as the public did not see him on stumps in the trial as he wasn't broadcast.
Just the same as in the sentencing last week. He thought it was his ace card( PR spin) both times.

Each time, it just raised more questions.

Anyway , have posted a new thread, awaiting mod, on the TV prog as I know many posters, on principle , don't want to see this prog and his PR spinning broadcasts, so they won't want to read the posts about it on this main thread as it airs. So hopefully we can separate that off, so it doesn't offend posters.

 

[mrjitty]

It's amusing that the two fans are very loud

Yet how in the reconstruction are both fans plugged in?

This, IMO, is why this video was not used at trial.

OPs version requires a number of floating facts. Like whether lights are on or off and whether alarms are turned on or off

But in a video, a fan has to be plugged in to work

A scene either has lighting or not

The video cannot be vague on these points!

 

[DexterMorgan]

It's amusing that the two fans are very loud

Yet how in the reconstruction are both fans plugged in?

This, IMO, is why this video was not used at trial.

OPs version requires a number of floating facts. Like whether lights are on or off and whether alarms are turned on or off

But in a video, a fan has to be plugged in to work

A scene either has lighting or not

The video cannot be vague on these points!

Forget the fans.

I first thought that Oscar had some huge master bedroom where it could have been possible for a claim of he thought that Reeva was safe.

But his bedroom was so minimum; that I still can't see why he thought Reeva was still perfectly sleeping or even hidden while he was grabbing guns and yelling at the intruder.

Oscar acted like he had the best night vision to confront a criminal in the dark.

But he couldn't see or feel that Reeva was not with him.

Most people with disabilities rely on other things to help them out.

Now why didn't he rely on Reeva to help him out by telling her to call the police or pass him his legs or to flee and get help while he handled things in the dark and on his stumps. Jmo

 

[mrjitty]

Forget the fans.

I first thought that Oscar had some huge master bedroom where it could have been possible for a claim of he thought that Reeva was safe.

But his bedroom was so minimum; that I still can't see why he thought Reeva was still perfectly sleeping or even hidden while he was grabbing guns and yelling at the intruder.

[/B]

This all demonstrates why he completed changed his version.

In the bail version, he goes out on the balcony and there is only one fan.

Even though this is not a contemporaneous police statement version, it is still very early on, and thus will most likely reflect what Oscar told his counsel (likely with some critical stuff deleted or deliberately vague).

The immediate problem with this version apparent.

The balcony light is on.

So when Oscar comes in from the balcony, unless he walks in backwards, he can see that Reeva is not in bed.

So once he has months to game his evidence and also gets pre-trial disclosure of the state evidence, he changes this to not going out on the balcony, instead messing around with the "loud fans"

The trouble with this, and I am sure this was a simple oversight, is that there is no plug for the 2nd fan.

Hence the need for Roux to deceive the Court about the extension cord, which even then, does not solve the problem!

 

[Hazy]

I see what you are saying, but I do think that Nel was deliberately playing an emotive card there. I appreciate that some would say this was fair enough given that Pistorius had displayed his disability in court , but ultimately, reminding the court that Reeva is sadly unable to walk anywhere anymore as she is dead, doesn't -imo- make Pistorius's disability any less significant.

One thing that is absolutely clear is that he DOES have mobility on his stumps in some form. This mobility gave him the ability to go the length of his bedroom and hall to shoot.....and back!

He had other options beside shooting.

Would Revva be dead if he had no arms?

When you take into account the whole range of disabilities a person can have OP's is mild in comparison. He is no Stephen Hawking!

 

[Hazy]

The prison guards aren't going to take away his prosthesis, so I really don't understand the relevance of that parade he put on in front of Masipa.

He takes his legs off to sleep and bathe. That's what he did at his own house, that's what he's dong at Uncle Arnold's, and that's what he will do again when he retuns prison.

He managed to fire four bullets through a closed door with precision while standing on a tile surface on his stumps. He can manage prison to pay for that crime.

I made a post similar to this a while back. It is the Defences attempt to get Masipa to sentence him based on her judgment not the SCA's.

 

[JudgeJudi]

There&#8217;s another error in the re-enactment video. In fact, there are numerous errors but I'll confine myself to one. No wonder it wasn&#8217;t shown.

&#8220;Oscar says that after he closed the curtains, the room was dark, except for this LED light on his stereo which he then covered with a pair of Reeva&#8217;s jeans&#8221;.

During the trial he said something different:

OP: It was a little blue LED light and I could see a pair of jeans that were on the floor, of Reeva&#8217;s jeans. I picked the jeans up and was going to cover, just place them over the amplifier, over the light. It was at this point that I heard a window open in the bathroom.
&#8230;
I leaned down... I was walking to pick them up and place them over the light of the amplifier.
&#8230;
GN: So in the middle of that button, there is a small blue LED light that you wanted to cover?
OP: That is correct, M'Lady.
GN: How did you want to cover it?
OP: By draping the jean over the, over the light, M'Lady, or over the button.
&#8230;
GN: Now you wanted to pick the jeans up to cover only that particular blue light.
OP: That is correct, M'Lady.
&#8230;
OP: &#8230; there would have been a reason for me trying to cover it &#8230;
&#8230;
OP: I remember picking up the jeans, M'Lady, and wanting to cover the light.

I think I've made my point. This was no slip-up as he repeated it over and over.

 

[mrjitty]

There&#8217;s another error in the re-enactment video. In fact, there are numerous errors but I'll confine myself to one. No wonder it wasn&#8217;t shown.

&#8220;Oscar says that after he closed the curtains, the room was dark, except for this LED light on his stereo which he then covered with a pair of Reeva&#8217;s jeans&#8221;.

During the trial he said something different:

OP: It was a little blue LED light and I could see a pair of jeans that were on the floor, of Reeva&#8217;s jeans. I picked the jeans up and was going to cover, just place them over the amplifier, over the light. It was at this point that I heard a window open in the bathroom.
&#8230;
I leaned down... I was walking to pick them up and place them over the light of the amplifier.
&#8230;
GN: So in the middle of that button, there is a small blue LED light that you wanted to cover?
OP: That is correct, M'Lady.
GN: How did you want to cover it?
OP: By draping the jean over the, over the light, M'Lady, or over the button.
&#8230;
GN: Now you wanted to pick the jeans up to cover only that particular blue light.
OP: That is correct, M'Lady.
&#8230;
OP: &#8230; there would have been a reason for me trying to cover it &#8230;
&#8230;
OP: I remember picking up the jeans, M'Lady, and wanting to cover the light.

I think I've made my point. This was no slip-up as he repeated it over and over.

I am surprised it didn't say he noticed a duvet on the floor and was about to drape it over a distracting LED

 

[Val1]

This all demonstrates why he completed changed his version.

In the bail version, he goes out on the balcony and there is only one fan.

Even though this is not a contemporaneous police statement version, it is still very early on, and thus will most likely reflect what Oscar told his counsel (likely with some critical stuff deleted or deliberately vague).

The immediate problem with this version apparent.

The balcony light is on.

So when Oscar comes in from the balcony, unless he walks in backwards, he can see that Reeva is not in bed.

So once he has months to game his evidence and also gets pre-trial disclosure of the state evidence, he changes this to not going out on the balcony, instead messing around with the "loud fans"

The trouble with this, and I am sure this was a simple oversight, is that there is no plug for the 2nd fan.

Hence the need for Roux to deceive the Court about the extension cord, which even then, does not solve the problem!

BBM - Rewatching this video(@1:25) reminded me that the Evidence Room had claimed to have both of the same exact fans when doing the reconstruction at the scene, well after the PT had signed off on the crime scene without knowing what OP's "version" would be, which certainly leads me to believe the Evidence Room likely also had the same exact extension cord involved, something that the DT would have known. As usual, Roux was just trying to distract JM from the previous damaging testimony and she fell for it....

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-recap-3787149
9:50 am
"Gerrie Nel illustrating that by Pistorius' own evidence, after shooting he was able to turn and walk out of the bathroom, moves fans and look behind curtains.
Roux not happy about this and tries to jump in and disrupt with an objection."

11:26 am
"Some disagreement here about an electrical cord which was in Pistorius' room.
The defence say it is very important and Roux makes an order for it to be obtained.
Nel says the state does not have it.
He cannot explain what has happened to it and judge Masipa is not happy about this."

 

[cottonweaver]

Wouldn't surprise me that ERoom had it , the whole lost cord was a transparent ruse.

The best account of that exchange on the cord is definitely the Mollet's transcript on their website, isn't it. Inappropriate that Masipa doesn't shut it all down from Roux.

 

[Jake18]

Wouldn't surprise me that ERoom had it , the whole lost cord was a transparent ruse.

The best account of that exchange on the cord is definitely the Mollet's transcript on their website, isn't it. Inappropriate that Masipa doesn't shut it all down from Roux.

There's a whole heap of stuff that a more competent judge would have shut down. Like the screams.

Roux promised the court that he, "would prove that Oscar screamed like a woman when he was terrified" (or thereabouts). Not that some men can sound like some women when they scream which is what their expert testimony amounted to. In fact, nothing about Oscar's screams at all, certainly no audio evidence. IIRC it all fizzled into a, "I screamed then like I've never screamed before or since" statement from Oscar.

Was there proof that Oscar sounded like a terrified woman screaming for her life? Not at all. Would Leach have allowed this to stand? I dunno, but if the screams are not Oscar's then his whole defence crumbles.

Or of course, it could have been a fox screaming. Im surprised Roux didn't try this as well - are there foxes in SA?

 

[cottonweaver]

snippets from the ITV Promotional Video. Wonder where the new thread is?


Avert your eyes if you don't want to hear about it.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-says-hed-10-8262485

 

[cottonweaver]

There's a whole heap of stuff that a more competent judge would have shut down. Like the screams.

Roux promised the court that he, "would prove that Oscar screamed like a woman when he was terrified" (or thereabouts). Not that some men can sound like some women when they scream which is what their expert testimony amounted to. In fact, nothing about Oscar's screams at all, certainly no audio evidence. IIRC it all fizzled into a, "I screamed then like I've never screamed before or since" statement from Oscar.

Was there proof that Oscar sounded like a terrified woman screaming for her life? Not at all. Would Leach have allowed this to stand? I dunno, but if the screams are not Oscar's then his whole defence crumbles.

Or of course, it could have been a fox screaming. Im surprised Roux didn't try this as well - are there foxes in SA?

Sure.
I was responding to a post about cords with the best source for a transcript.

yes they mentioned hyenas and stuff, Farm Inn nature reserve , Estelle van der merwe's cross.