Out of place items in Ramsey home

[Toltec]

Lets take a look at the following items that were out of place in the Ramsey home. Maybe we can come up with a new timeline or perhaps even a new theory. If anyone wants to add any items I have forgotten, feel free to do so.

Second floor: Paring knife & Pull-ups in the laundry area. Soiled pants & balled up turtleneck found in JB's bathroom.

First Floor: Flashlite on kitchen counter, bowl of pineapple, glass of tea, kleenex in breakfast room, pillow in the kitchen. Sippy cup & Johns bathrobe in the den.

Basement: Swiss army knife in boiler room counter, broken paintbrush in boiler room. Barbie dolls, barbie nitegown, JonBenet's blanket & JonBenet's body in the wine cellar.

These items alone can one make a theory of what happened.

Anyone have a theory using these out-of-place items?

 

[UKGuy]

Lets take a look at the following items that were out of place in the Ramsey home. Maybe we can come up with a new timeline or perhaps even a new theory. If anyone wants to add any items I have forgotten, feel free to do so.

Second floor: Paring knife & Pull-ups in the laundry area. Soiled pants & balled up turtleneck found in JB's bathroom.

First Floor: Flashlite on kitchen counter, bowl of pineapple, glass of tea, kleenex in breakfast room, pillow in the kitchen. Sippy cup & Johns bathrobe in the den.

Basement: Swiss army knife in boiler room counter, broken paintbrush in boiler room. Barbie dolls, barbie nitegown, JonBenet's blanket & JonBenet's body in the wine cellar.

These items alone can one make a theory of what happened.

Anyone have a theory using these out-of-place items?

Toltec,
Sure do. Same old, same old. Someone at a late stage recognized the current staging included a resident as a potential suspect in a sexual assault, hence a revision of the staging was required. Which must have been quite late, since some elements of the prior staging were left behind, not unless you reckon there was no prior staging?

.

 

[Agatha_C]

Toltec...

Excellent post and new idea. I need to think about it, but the order in which you listed then, well, I think it tells you where it started, where it went and where it ended. Now to think about the individual items..

Again excellent post..

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Lets take a look at the following items that were out of place in the Ramsey home. Maybe we can come up with a new timeline or perhaps even a new theory. If anyone wants to add any items I have forgotten, feel free to do so.

Second floor: Paring knife & Pull-ups in the laundry area. Soiled pants & balled up turtleneck found in JB's bathroom.

First Floor: Flashlite on kitchen counter, bowl of pineapple, glass of tea, kleenex in breakfast room, pillow in the kitchen. Sippy cup & Johns bathrobe in the den.

Basement: Swiss army knife in boiler room counter, broken paintbrush in boiler room. Barbie dolls, barbie nitegown, JonBenet's blanket & JonBenet's body in the wine cellar.

These items alone can one make a theory of what happened.

Anyone have a theory using these out-of-place items?

Before we try to recreate anything based on these items, maybe we should consider that some of them have other explanations for being out of place? For example, perhaps John's bathrobe is in the den because he got a new robe for Christmas, took this one off, put on the new one and left the old one just lying there?

[Sippy cup? Who in the heck in this family still drank out of a sippy cup? Kids outgrow sippy cups well before the age of six! Had JBR reverted to sippy cups like she'd reverted to pre-potty-trained days?]

 

[joeskidbeck]

Before we try to recreate anything based on these items, maybe we should consider that some of them have other explanations for being out of place? For example, perhaps John's bathrobe is in the den because he got a new robe for Christmas, took this one off, put on the new one and left the old one just lying there?

[Sippy cup? Who in the heck in this family still drank out of a sippy cup? Kids outgrow sippy cups well before the age of six! Had JBR reverted to sippy cups like she'd reverted to pre-potty-trained days?]

Good point about the sippy cup, mtm. I have a question about one of the items. The pillow found in the kitchen, this is the first time I've heard this.
I also agree that you can take the items listed, in the way they are listed, and come up with a theory and a timeline. MOO

One more thing, the bathrobe being in the den might explain why John read the rn in his underwear (I hate even typing that) Maybe he forgot where he left it the night before?

 

[Toltec]

Good point about the sippy cup, mtm. I have a question about one of the items. The pillow found in the kitchen, this is the first time I've heard this.
I also agree that you can take the items listed, in the way they are listed, and come up with a theory and a timeline. MOO

One more thing, the bathrobe being in the den might explain why John read the rn in his underwear (I hate even typing that) Maybe he forgot where he left it the night before?

John was the neat freak in the family...he would have never left his bathrobe downstairs...unless...

 

[joeskidbeck]

John was the neat freak in the family...he would have never left his bathrobe downstairs...unless...

Loud and clear, Toltec. Loud and clear!

 

[txsvicki]

John might have left his robe in the den that morning, Christmas due to having to get up really early for the kids to open presents. The only thing that seems out of place to me is the paring knife and pillow in the kitchen, but I thought the cleaning lady said she hid one of the knives in the cabinet.

 

[Steely]

[Sippy cup? Who in the heck in this family still drank out of a sippy cup? Kids outgrow sippy cups well before the age of six! Had JBR reverted to sippy cups like she'd reverted to pre-potty-trained days?]

Yes, my_tee_mouse, you would think so, wouldn't you?
Perhaps JB didn't use one at the table or in the kitchen, but someone who was worried about stains (RED or Orange Koolaid or Grape Juice perhaps?) or (milk?)spills on a nice rug or some piece of expensive furniture gave it to her to drink in a room where spills would be frowned upon.

Maybe JB loved that cup and resisted giving it up, some kids just like them. Was there a Barbie or such on the cup? Many of those cups are pretty gender specific. Is there a good description of the sippy cup?

I've known people who break their kids from using them in the home but continue using them in the car for quite a while longer. Fill the cup, get the kid and rush to the car. No spills, a happy kid, and no GLASS to break in the car.

Or what if someone filled that cup and took it with them when they went to get JB in order to quiet her while they carried her downstairs while wearing their robe? Did the R's say it was theirs or did they deny it? Were they both asked about it... separately? Was the cup tested for fingerprints and contents and the kitchen checked for the same beverage?

How big was the robe? Did PR ever wear it? Some women like to wear their husbands robes. Was the robe tested? Anyone here know?

 

[Steely]

John might have left his robe in the den that morning, Christmas due to having to get up really early for the kids to open presents. The only thing that seems out of place to me is the paring knife and pillow in the kitchen, but I thought the cleaning lady said she hid one of the knives in the cabinet.

I thought it was a Swiss Army Knife she said PR took away from BR and hid in the laundry cupboard and it was found under JB? Has this been confirmed?


Thanks!

 

[Steely]

What about the partially wrapped FAO Schwartz present seen in the crime scene photos? How would that fit in? I think that is really odd...here it was Christmas Day...but in the evening/night and there's a partially wrapped present by her lifeless body. What was in it? Who was it for? What did PR and JR say about THAT? Was it partially wrapped or partially UNWRAPPED? PR said she wrapped presents down in the basement. Did she only partially wrap them too? Was it an undelivered present being stored downstairs that one of the kids started to open but was caught red handed or interrupted by someone going into the basement? Was it a "secret" gift given when everyone else was sleeping by one parent which was a reward for keeping "their little secret"?

 

[DeeDee249]

What about the partially wrapped FAO Schwartz present seen in the crime scene photos? How would that fit in? I think that is really odd...here it was Christmas Day...but in the evening/night and there's a partially wrapped present by her lifeless body. What was in it? Who was it for? What did PR and JR say about THAT? Was it partially wrapped or partially UNWRAPPED? PR said she wrapped presents down in the basement. Did she only partially wrap them too? Was it an undelivered present being stored downstairs that one of the kids started to open but was caught red handed or interrupted by someone going into the basement? Was it a "secret" gift given when everyone else was sleeping by one parent which was a reward for keeping "their little secret"?

Well, if you're RDI, the partially UNwrapped present (as opposed to partially wrapped) contained the package of the set of Bloomies day-of-the-week panties from which the size 12 Bloomies panties JB was wearing when her body was found came.
The wooden latch on the WC door was there to keep the kids out of that room. It was high up at the top of the door, so high up that the first police officer on the scene to do down the basement did not see it, and failed to open that door, which, on the other side was JB's body and an UNcontaminated crime scene. The kids would not have been able to get in the room with the latch in place.

 

[Toltec]

I forgot one more item....JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms. I recall reading somewhere in the Patsy Ramsey interrogation that she was asked why JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms were in Burke's bedroom.

 

[Agatha_C]

Toltec,

I did not know that. Why were her pj pants found in BR's room? I need to go and find that little piece of info.

 

[Becky319]

I forgot one more item....JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms. I recall reading somewhere in the Patsy Ramsey interrogation that she was asked why JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms were in Burke's bedroom.

I know when they showed her the picture of the basement floor with the white blanket and the pink barbie nightgown she commented that (the pink nightgown) wasn't suppose to be there, could that be what you are thinking about?

 

[otg]

Well, if you're RDI, the partially UNwrapped present (as opposed to partially wrapped) contained the package of the set of Bloomies day-of-the-week panties from which the size 12 Bloomies panties JB was wearing when her body was found came.
The wooden latch on the WC door was there to keep the kids out of that room. It was high up at the top of the door, so high up that the first police officer on the scene to do down the basement did not see it, and failed to open that door, which, on the other side was JB's body and an UNcontaminated crime scene. The kids would not have been able to get in the room with the latch in place.

BBM
I ran across this picture recently which I don't remember seeing, or maybe didn't realize exactly what it was if I saw it before. I believe it's the door going into the room where JB's body was found (I added the circle around the latch). If you notice also, it's the type of latch that is usually installed on the side of a doorway. As it is installed here, the latch would fall down with gravity. It's obvious why it might not be noticed -- they usually are not installed like that, so anyone would just about have to be looking for it.

I wish I had run across this back when I was discussing with MurriFlower the area where I believe the death occurred ([ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5798665#post5798665"]POST HERE[/ame]). In the picture, you can also see that there is indeed an overhead pipe just above the door, and there is at least one set of golf clubs in the same area. That might also be a second set to the left with the word "RAMSEY" on it.

.

 

[Becky319]

In the basement photo OTG posted look at the green christmas decoration hanging on the wall to the left, I wonder if that is the same green material they found in JB's hair?

 

[Agatha_C]

Otg,

My mind is spinning a mile a minute, just looking at the golf clubs and just how close they are to the WC, if only I had ex-ray vision.

 

[Toltec]

Toltec,

I did not know that. Why were her pj pants found in BR's room? I need to go and find that little piece of info.

I am reading the 1998 Patsy Ramsey interrogation....I am almost positive I read about the pink pajama bottoms there. Will post when I find it.

 

[UKGuy]

I forgot one more item....JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms. I recall reading somewhere in the Patsy Ramsey interrogation that she was asked why JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms were in Burke's bedroom.

Toltec,

Wow that would be something! I have looked for this but cannot find it.

There is a reference to when JonBenet last wore those bottoms:

Patsy's 1998 BPD Interview excerpt

16 TOM HANEY: Okay. But you

17 distinctly remember going and checking on that?

18 PATSY RAMSEY: Plus she had her

19 pink pajamas on that she had put on the night

20 before. If she had wet it would have been

21 soaking wet and she wouldn't have had those on

22 in the Christmas picture, so --

23 TOM HANEY: Okay. If that's what

24 she, and you say that's what she wore to bed the

25 night before?

0569

1 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.

Patsy is asked about JonBenet sleeping in Burke's room.
Patsy's 1997 BPD Interview , excerpt

PR: Well we um, uh went to church, the family church service which was at four or 4:30 . . .

TT: Okay.

PR: . . .something like that. And uh, after that we went to Pasta Jay’s for dinner. . .

TT: Um hum.

PR: And then we drove around town looking at Christmas lights and we drove up to the star up on the mountain there and um, I remember JonBenet was miffed because we wouldn’t let her get out and she wanted to walk up into the star . . .

TT: Um hum.

PR: And uh, she just had her little velvet Sunday school shoes on, you know, so she was, she said, ‘Well, what’s the use coming up here if you can’t even go up to the star.’ Um, so then we came down, down from the star and we wound around by the White’s house and uh, I think, and we went in there for a few minutes and uh, then we went home.

TT: Okay.

PR: And, you know, got everybody ready for bed.

TT: Okay. About what time (inaudible).

PR: Oh, gee, I don’t know.

TT: Okay.

PR: I don’t know exactly.

TT: Okay. Um, go home, go to bed.

PR: Early evening.

TT: Okay. Early evening?

PR: Um hum.

TT: Go home, got ready for bed um, where did everybody sleep that night?

PR: Well, JonBenet was in her bed in her room. . .

TT: Okay.

PR: . . .and Burke was in his bed and we slept in our room.

TT: Okay. Do you have an idea if JonBenet moved over towards Burke’s room at all that night. Slept in his room?

PR: Um, I can’t remember, can’t remember.

TT: Okay. Is that something that she would normally do?

PR: No.

TT: Sleep in Burke’s room. I know everybody’s got, you got, they both have two beds in their rooms.

PR: Yeah, right um, I don’t think so. I just can’t remember.

From memory I think someone said that JonBenet did share a room/bed with Burke some night prior to chrsitmas?


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