PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #2

[Ontario Mom]

Because when a prior president/president comes to town the security rules change and on the surface TMC fit the profile of a mass shooter.
As I said " I guess no red flags were raised" when he purchased the ammo.

Before Saturday, as far as I've seen in the media, not a single person described this guy as having a profile of a mass shooter. Even since then, the only place I've seen that mentioned is actually right here. It may have been mentioned in the media, but not that I've seen.

 

[Arkay]

What I remember clearly about the days following 9/11 (I live in Manhattan) is how the country UNITED, instantly.

I never, ever, ever want to experience anything like that again, but the unity was nice, and I was proud of that reaction in my country.

jmo

Same.
I grew up in Manhattan but am in Brooklyn now. My daughter was working a few blocks away from the WTC on 9/11 and had a terrible time getting home.
I knew several people who were murdered there, and yes the feeling of unity that was pervasive following the attacks was the only good thing to emerge from that.

Trump says he discarded his convention speech to make it more conciliatory, and if that is true it will also be the only positive thing to emerge from this disaster, IMO.

I avidly read the posts from our fellow posters here who live in states with a gun culture since it is so foreign to me. Obviously there are many gun crimes in NYC but those are from the criminal element. We do NOT have a culture with gun stores and average people purchasing guns, so I never really grasp how ubiquitous and casual it is elsewhere when no one flinches at gun purchases.

Jmo and experience.

 

[Inthedetails]

Before Saturday, as far as I've seen in the media, not a single person described this guy as having a profile of a mass shooter. Even since then, the only place I've seen that mentioned is actually right here. It may have been mentioned in the media, but not that I've seen.

To me, this shooting is a gun violence issue (and possibly mental-illness issue, remains to be seen) and not political violence.

Yes, I know Trump is a politician, but I think he was chosen as target for the "prize" value of the shock.

That's my opinion, and largely informed by all the cases I have followed over the years. This fits with a school-shooter profile, given what we know to date.

I know people are searching for a political connection, though. I just don't see it. I see a young man who wanted to be destructive in a BIG way and who probably expected to be killed in the process.

Of course, if we learn about evidence that shows something different, I will adjust my opinion. For now, he was a young man with a gun and a desire to kill with it - not a political fanatic and not part of a conspiracy, imo.

jmo

 

[Seattle1]

I guess no red flags were raised when a young white guy buys 50 rounds of ammo for his AR 15 style rifle hours before a former president and current Republican forerunner comes to town for a rally days before the Republican National Convention.

There's nothing abnormal about the quantity of 50 rounds as this is how ammo is boxed. For example, even if he wanted one bullet, he'd have to by a box of of 20 rounds. Shopping for a day at the gun range is typically 200 rounds. In other words 50 rounds would not raise an eyebrow. However, what is different compared to NY is the unrestricted ease to purchase ammo in PA. This news article below explains why NY residents flock to PA for ammo.

https://www.yourerie.com/news/regio...ents-flocking-to-pennsylvania-for-ammunition/

 

[Liora]

On retrospect, it also would have been a good place for the owner/lease to put private security just to prevent having spectators climb there dangerously. Who needs to deal with broken wrists and legs that could follow a group deciding to get a closer look from there.

MOO

It shouldn't be the owners' responsibility to pay for security when they didn't plan the rally or ask for it to be nearby.

 

[Inthedetails]

Same.
I grew up in Manhattan but am in Brooklyn now. My daughter was working a few blocks away from the WTC on 9/11 and had a terrible time getting home.
I knew several people who were murdered there, and yes the feeling of unity that was pervasive following the attacks was the only good thing to emerge from that.

Trump says he discarded his convention speech to make it more conciliatory, and if that is true it will also be the only positive thing to emerge from this disaster, IMO.

I avidly read the posts from our fellow posters here who live in states with a gun culture since it is so foreign to me. Obviously there are many gun crimes in NYC but those are from the criminal element. We do NOT have a culture with gun stores and average people purchasing guns, so I never really grasp how ubiquitous and casual it is elsewhere when no one flinches at gun purchases.

Jmo and experience.

Hey, neighbor. I'd wave out the window at you but it's too hot.

 

[MassGuy]

The more I think about it, the more I believe that Trump was a target of opportunity.

I was looking at his rally dates and the announcements of them, and they don’t typically have a great deal of lead time. I’m not sure about the Pennsylvania one specifically, but most are about 2 weeks from announcement to event.

That’s very little time to gather bomb making materials and build bombs. Of course I’m sure these weren’t very sophisticated, but still.

Then we have the last minute ammunition purchase, which would be weird for someone who had been planning for a while to kill the former president.

The bombs to me seem to indicate plans for a mass casualty attack. I think he had something else in mind before opportunity struck.

Especially when you look at how sloppy and utterly reckless the attack itself was. There were numerous points where he should have been intercepted, and he was able to take advantage of perhaps the most stunning breakdown in SS history.

I just hope his devices talk, and give us a better idea of what his thinking was.

 

[Seattle1]

My condolences to the deceased and their families, truly no words for how awful every shooting in America is.

Has it been confirmed that the officer who approached the shooter on the roof was an actual police officer, and not hired security for the event? That piece is so interesting to me - with how long people in the crowd were warning and recording the shooter on the roof, surely a police officer would have radioed it in or called for back up immediately? Was the person who approached the shooter someone with less training for this type of critical urgency?

Yes, a municipal officer from Butler County. Good details by the Butler County Sheriff linked below (prior thread):

US - Shots fired at Donald Trump rally in Pennsylvania as former president is seen with blood across his face, 13 July 2024

Minute-by-minute timeline: https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/14/politics/timeline-trump-rally-shooting-dg/index.html

www.websleuths.com

 

[ilovewings]

Trump supporters tried to warn cops about gunman

New video shows a Trump supporter alerting a police officer to the presence of a gunman on a roof close to where the ex-president was speaking in Butler, Pennsylvania, on Saturday evening.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Multiple attendees loudly call out the location of Crooks to police officers but still the shooter was able to get off multiple shots.

Butler County Sheriff Michael Slupe confirmed that a local police officer did attempt to confront Crooks on the rooftop, moments before the gunfire rang out, but that he ducked for cover when the rifle was trained on him.

A spokesman for the Secret Service has said that the securing the perimeter of the event is the responsibility of local law enforcement.
Green and red bolding mine.
Hmm.

Green bolded : I guess it's easy to say what we would've done ....
But I wish the local LEO had immediately let the secret service know TC was on that roof.

How long (imo this is important) from the first rally attendee notifying LE to the first shots fired by TC ?
A long enough time lapse that the SS should've been warned ?

Red bolded : Do not like to think that anyone is in cya mode, however....
It's agonizing to think the death of Corey and the injuries to the other two men and to the former president Trump could've been avoided.
Corey's death was preventable.
Omo.

That is the really sad part. Corey's death was preventable. Makes it so much worse

 

[Leopard]

The more I think about it, the more I believe that Trump was a target of opportunity.

MOO - I disagree. There have been a lot of events and campaign stops for both parties this summer, as well as 4th of July events and Pride events throughout the state and around Pittsburgh. Many of these would not have had Secret Service or anything more than local security. Trump was the target.

 

[MesquiteO21]

A spokesman for the Secret Service has said that the securing the perimeter of the event is the responsibility of local law enforcement.

I mean i can understand that, but shouldn't there be some sort of protocol where local LE gives the SS the all clear that the perimeter has been secured? or protocol of the SS to confirm that the perimeter has been secured?

gotta communicate people

 

[Arkay]

That is the really sad part. Corey's death was preventable. Makes it so much worse

Very much agree.

My personal hope is that Trump will make some magnanimous gesture toward Corey’s family. Maybe pay for the funeral, or if this assassination attempt sways enough voters and Trump wins, perhaps invite the family to the Inauguration.

Just something to honor a good family man and firefighter who supported Trump, yet died horrifically but needlessly.

Jmo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

My thinking is that he wanted to go out in a big way. Wanted to make a name for himself.
He wanted to be remembered as "someone". He may have become a school shooter.

I don't believe it was political or that he hated Trump, and he may very well have chosen Biden as his target.
Except that Trump was the bigger attraction.

 

[Inthedetails]

MOO - I disagree. There have been a lot of events and campaign stops for both parties this summer, as well as 4th of July events and Pride events throughout the state and around Pittsburgh. Many of these would not have had Secret Service or anything more than local security. Trump was the target.

Trump might have been a target but perhaps hitting him is more shocking (and different) than shooting into a crowd, and that was the appeal.

Shocking, hurtful, divisive, suicidal.....shooting Trump achieved those desires of the shooter, imo.

Hey, maybe we'll find some political manifesto - but that has not happened. All we know is what we know, and from what we know, I think he was a young man with a gun who wanted to impress, shock, divide, hurt, kill and die.

jmo

 

[MassGuy]

My thinking is that he wanted to go out in a big way. Wanted to make a name for himself.
He wanted to be remembered as "someone". He may have become a school shooter.

I don't believe it was political or that he hated Trump, and he may very well have chosen Biden as his target.
Except that Trump was the bigger attraction.

This is from the Secret Service study I posted last thread:

Assassins seeking fame usually chose a prominent victim. Feelings about the target were irrelevant.

''I would have voted for him if I hadn't been in jail charged with trying to kill him,'' one unidentified attacker told the researchers.
One-third of the assassins considered more than one target. Oswald, for example, fired a shot at a retired general less than a year before killing President Kennedy in 1963. And Mr. Hinckley stalked President Carter and the actress Jodie Foster before shooting President Reagan in 1981.

 

[Ruminations]

To me, this shooting is a gun violence issue (and possibly mental-illness issue, remains to be seen) and not political violence.

Yes, I know Trump is a politician, but I think he was chosen as target for the "prize" value of the shock.

That's my opinion, and largely informed by all the cases I have followed over the years. This fits with a school-shooter profile, given what we know to date.

I know people are searching for a political connection, though. I just don't see it. I see a young man who wanted to be destructive in a BIG way and who probably expected to be killed in the process.

Of course, if we learn about evidence that shows something different, I will adjust my opinion. For now, he was a young man with a gun and a desire to kill with it - not a political fanatic and not part of a conspiracy, imo.

jmo

The number of comments about how ordinary the purchases of the gun and ammo were, and how ordinary the background of the shooter and his family were prove the point:It's about the gun.

This kind of thing is rare in other countries. Maybe it's time to change up "ordinary."

MOO

 

[Dpdan]

Is it necessary to gain certain grades to follow on to a Bachelor's degree after an Associate degree? Just wondering if that had been his intention but he didn't make the grade.

 

[Seattle1]

There was far too much reliance on local police. Butler Farm grounds may be a fine venue for small fairs and tractor pulls. No way should a major political figure - during a polarizing election - been positioned at a podium in open line of sight of trees and buildings, with a public audience directly behind him in bleachers. They were all sitting ducks. Epic failure.

Pittsburgh is equipped to prepare for these types of rallies. Bridges and rooftops are cleared. Garbage cans and street manholes get locked down. Mailboxes are removed. Butler was not prepared and was a poor choice for this now tragic event.

jmo

Great post @steeltowngirl. Then add the Trump rally in Butler was just one of three high profile events hosted in PA on 7/13: First Lady Jill Biden in Pittsburg, and VP Harris in Philly.

First Lady Dr. Jill Biden and former President Donald Trump campaigning in Pittsburgh today

Pennsylvania is once again a battleground state this year and both the former president and the First Lady will be in Pittsburgh today.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Love Never Fails]

@MassGuy
Regarding your recent post, for this guy to have crossed so many boundaries without being identified and stopped along the way only means he had help.
Planned or staged I don’t know and I certainly cannot debate it.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I totally get what you’re saying but I think like SO many people would fit that profile at first glance. He also could have looked like a computer nerd or a typical college kid. Especially in a rural setting, a lot of guys his age would have hair and clothing like his.

Would they all be carrying a rifle?