PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #3

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RANCH said:
Why couldn't the Secret Service take control and physically force President Trump to take a safer posture? They outnumbered him and are much younger.

Nope. These excuses for a Secret Service failure just doesn't cut it with me. JMO.
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They risked their lives by physically protecting his. They also stood to not go home to their babies, their spouses, their moms, dads, and siblings, because they put their bodies between a gun and a politician for the good of the country. I don't think that should be easily dismissed.

At any rate, you and I can agree this was a terrible tragedy that never should have happened.
 
GatorFL said:
You mean the 90's? Clinton wasn't elected til 92.
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I volunteered to drive a van for the news media in a VPOTUS motorcade once. We were very far back, probably 12 cars back from the main group. It was just a basic mini-van rented from the airport car rental. It was intense, fun and an amazing learning experience, watching everything the SS does in managing VPOTUS and other VIPs, plus the public and staff. Media that travels on these trips are experts and know how everything is done, too. There are a lot of rules about what you can and can't do, where you must go, etc. The amount of planning and people, LE, etc. involved is very extensive. Driving 10 miles from downtown to the airport, the interstate highway is completely empty, all exits are blocked by motorcycle police. Amazing how they do all that. So many things I learned that day. SS are very nice, professional people. Don't bother or talk to them while they're working, though.
 
ldlager said:
Unless of course the SS somehow KNEW, maybe in advance, there was only one shooter!
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Yeah, that must be it. lol
In the article I posted it was addressed that Trump is very close to his SS and the quote was from a security person who said that that could have been why they got the shoe etc..they're too used to listening to his wishes.
Not good but it makes sense.
 
Betty P said:
I volunteered to drive a van for the news media in a VPOTUS motorcade once. We were very far back, probably 12 cars back from the main group. It was just a basic mini-van rented from the airport car rental. It was intense, fun and an amazing learning experience, watching everything the SS does in managing VPOTUS and other VIPs, plus the public and staff. Media that travels on these trips are experts and know how everything is done, too. There are a lot of rules about what you can and can't do, where you must go, etc. The amount of planning and people, LE, etc. involved is very extensive. Driving 10 miles from downtown to the airport, the interstate highway is completely empty, all exits are blocked by motorcycle police. Amazing how they do all that. So many things I learned that day. SS are very nice, professional people. Don't bother or talk to them while they're working, though.
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I have to see if I can find the interview I saw on TV a few days ago from one of the known media.

It was from the woman whose property abuts the venue where the rally was held and she said that no SS or LE visited her before the event which means no vetting at all took place.
My sister's boss is very,very wealthy and held a fundraiser for Obama at his Brookline Massachusetts home.
Neighbors surrounding the residence were vetted and when Obama arrived there were 4 Black vehicles that pulled up with each having a black man exit the vehicle and enter the house.
Granted, Obama was still president and running for a 2nd term and Trump is an ex-president and the 2024 presidential nominee..but it shows what SS is capable of planning and executing.
 
Betty P said:
It's the SS call on how to get him to safety ASAP. If Trump were following the protocol, his head wouldn't have been visible. The agents kept trying to get him to crouch down so they could cover him, but he kept standing back up to wave at the crowd. He was putting himself in danger.

The best choice was to get him into that bulletproof, bomb-proof SUV, which is much safer than the open stage. It was the right move.
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Agree. The shooter shot him; that's not Trump's fault.

But Trump is has not historically followed SS advice. During a demonstration I DC while he was president SS wanted h8m in a bunker and he refused and went outside instead.

It does look like trump greatly resisted being covered by SS and wanted to show strength.

And- that image of fist pumping with a bloodied face has become iconic. Trump is still alive. I think if he had it to do all over, he'd pop his head out and fist pump again.

I think the part of Trump that makes him less compliant with SS than other people would be also makes him popular. So who is to say what he should have done.

But I don't think the criticism that SS agents were too short was fair- they could have and tried to cover Trump. He just wasn't going to miss that photo op.

It also would not be helpful if protectees HAD to obey SS. The president is the president and commander in chief. The SS should not and is not able to tell the president what to do.

It would not be proper if the SS had authority over a candidate, either. if SS had had the authority to tell a candidate where they can and cannot campaign, wouldn't it seem like it might be political? An agency in one administration closing down a rival's rally because it's dangerous? That would not be right. So SS can advise about the risks of a campaign stop, but can't dictate decisions.

I don't blame SS for Trumps repeatedly exposing his head. It worried me, but I'm sure SS tried to get him to duck. It could have been shock, like you said. But I think it was a decision-in line with his popular personality. And I would not want SS to have the authority to nix a campaign decision- either choosing venues or responding as desired to being shot at. That runs the risk of politicizing SS.

MOO
 
Ruminations said:
Agree. The shooter shot him; that's not Trump's fault.

But Trump is has not historically followed SS advice. During a demonstration I DC while he was president SS wanted h8m in a bunker and he refused and went outside instead.

It does look like trump greatly resisted being covered by SS and wanted to show strength.

And- that image of fist pumping with a bloodied face has become iconic. Trump is still alive. I think if he had it to do all over, he'd pop his head out and fist pump again.

I think the part of Trump that makes him less compliant with SS than other people would be also makes him popular. So who is to say what he should have done.

But I don't think the criticism that SS agents were too short was fair- they could have and tried to cover Trump. He just wasn't going to miss that photo op.

It also would not be helpful if protectees HAD to obey SS. The president is the president and commander in chief. The SS should not and is not able to tell the president what to do.

It would not be proper if the SS had authority over a candidate, either. if SS had had the authority to tell a candidate where they can and cannot campaign, wouldn't it seem like it might be political? An agency in one administration closing down a rival's rally because it's dangerous? That would not be right. So SS can advise about the risks of a campaign stop, but can't dictate decisions.

I don't blame SS for Trumps repeatedly exposing his head. It worried me, but I'm sure SS tried to get him to duck. It could have been shock, like you said. But I think it was a decision-in line with his popular personality. And I would not want SS to have the authority to nix a campaign decision- either choosing venues or responding as desired to being shot at. That runs the risk of politicizing SS.

MOO
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I seriously doubt if the SS detail had forced President Trump to keep his head down that there would have been any repercussions from him or Secret Service management.

I find the idea that President Trump is at fault for his failed SS security to be based on people's dislike of him and not the facts. JMO.
 
Mentioned in the article I posted and by a poster here was the height of some of the SS agents surrounding Trump.
From what I remember it was just the 2 women who were much shorter than Trump so that is something that needs to be changed when he or any president or ex-president is in public.
 
RANCH said:
I seriously doubt if the SS detail had forced President Trump to keep his head down that there would have been any repercussions from him or Secret Service management.

I find the idea that President Trump is at fault for his failed SS security to be based on people's dislike of him and not the facts. JMO.
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I can't stand Trump yet don't want to see him hurt or killed and I hold the SS responsible.
If they're too chummy to have done their job of protecting him then they shouldn't be on the tax payers dime for failing to do what they were trained and hired for.
 
Ruminations said:
Agree. The shooter shot him; that's not Trump's fault.

But Trump is has not historically followed SS advice. During a demonstration I DC while he was president SS wanted h8m in a bunker and he refused and went outside instead.

It does look like trump greatly resisted being covered by SS and wanted to show strength.

And- that image of fist pumping with a bloodied face has become iconic. Trump is still alive. I think if he had it to do all over, he'd pop his head out and fist pump again.

I think the part of Trump that makes him less compliant with SS than other people would be also makes him popular. So who is to say what he should have done.

But I don't think the criticism that SS agents were too short was fair- they could have and tried to cover Trump. He just wasn't going to miss that photo op.

It also would not be helpful if protectees HAD to obey SS. The president is the president and commander in chief. The SS should not and is not able to tell the president what to do.

It would not be proper if the SS had authority over a candidate, either. if SS had had the authority to tell a candidate where they can and cannot campaign, wouldn't it seem like it might be political? An agency in one administration closing down a rival's rally because it's dangerous? That would not be right. So SS can advise about the risks of a campaign stop, but can't dictate decisions.

I don't blame SS for Trumps repeatedly exposing his head. It worried me, but I'm sure SS tried to get him to duck. It could have been shock, like you said. But I think it was a decision-in line with his popular personality. And I would not want SS to have.the authority to nix a campaign decision- either choosing venues or responding as desired to being shot at. That runs the risk of politicizing SS.

MOO
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I agree. Trump can do as he wishes and I'm glad he wasn't further injured. People shouldn't blame the SS when it was Trump's choice to keep his head elevated and pause to do his fist pump. SS did all they could to protect him in a difficult situation. They did the best they could and got him out of there quickly and safely.
 
Ruminations said:
Agree. The shooter shot him; that's not Trump's fault.

But Trump is has not historically followed SS advice. During a demonstration I DC while he was president SS wanted h8m in a bunker and he refused and went outside instead.

It does look like trump greatly resisted being covered by SS and wanted to show strength.

And- that image of fist pumping with a bloodied face has become iconic. Trump is still alive. I think if he had it to do all over, he'd pop his head out and fist pump again.

I think the part of Trump that makes him less compliant with SS than other people would be also makes him popular. So who is to say what he should have done.

But I don't think the criticism that SS agents were too short was fair- they could have and tried to cover Trump. He just wasn't going to miss that photo op.

It also would not be helpful if protectees HAD to obey SS. The president is the president and commander in chief. The SS should not and is not able to tell the president what to do.

It would not be proper if the SS had authority over a candidate, either. if SS had had the authority to tell a candidate where they can and cannot campaign, wouldn't it seem like it might be political? An agency in one administration closing down a rival's rally because it's dangerous? That would not be right. So SS can advise about the risks of a campaign stop, but can't dictate decisions.

I don't blame SS for Trumps repeatedly exposing his head. It worried me, but I'm sure SS tried to get him to duck. It could have been shock, like you said. But I think it was a decision-in line with his popular personality. And I would not want SS to have the authority to nix a campaign decision- either choosing venues or responding as desired to being shot at. That runs the risk of politicizing SS.

MOO
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OMG!
Trying to cover his head with an arm after letting Trump stand there like a sitting duck posing for quite a while after getting him up and his shoe(s) on.
In my unwavering opinion they should have kept him down.
Will we ever know what's going on now with these agent's actions and their future within the SS?
 
Betty P said:
I agree. Trump can do as he wishes and I'm glad he wasn't further injured. People shouldn't blame the SS when it was Trump's choice to keep his head elevated and pause to do his fist pump. SS did all they could to protect him in a difficult situation. They did the best they could and got him out of there quickly and safely.
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No, the best would have been to keep him down and covered until it was certain there were no other shooters.
Had there been another shooter and Trump was shot because they left him exposed then what?
Would it be Trump's own fault for getting injured or killed or his Secret Service details fault?
 
Izzylizzy said:
No, the best would have been to keep him down and covered until it was certain there were no other shooters.
Had there been another shooter and Trump was shot because they left him exposed then what?
Would it be Trump's own fault for getting injured or killed or his Secret Service details fault?
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I agree. The Secret Service detail didn't do the best that they could.

Trying to deflect that failure by saying it's President Trumps fault is not going to get them to do a better job in the future. JMO.
 
Izzylizzy said:
No, the best would have been to keep him down and covered until it was certain there were no other shooters.
Had there been another shooter and Trump was shot because they left him exposed then what?
Would it be Trump's own fault for getting injured or killed or his Secret Service details fault?
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Both. The man has free will, autonomy, and personal accountability. He knows the protocol.
 
Betty P said:
They have to move him as fast as possible to the black SUV. Any further gunshots have to be absorbed by the SS officers surrounding the POTUS. Once one shooter is down, they have to move as quickly as possible to get him to safety, putting their own lives at risk if there's a second shooter. Once he's in that black SUV, he's pretty safe and they can get him out. The whole point is to get him in the vehicle and out of the area ASAP.

He's a big guy, not easy to move and not easy to cover if he refuses to duck down. I recall from watching the replay that day, that he seemed to be resisting the SS agents who were trying to push him to the car. I could see they were struggling to get him moving once he was on his feet. He kept trying to turn to the cameras and wave/fist bump or whatever. That was slowing things down quite a bit. Once they got him to the black SUV, he resisted them again, standing up to wave or do some other gesture. IIRC, one of the agents finally just shoved him into the SUV. They really struggled. It's possible Trump was still in some kind of shock where he didn't fully understand the danger and kept fighting them and slowing down to wave. Same with the shoes. Presidents most likely receive instructions on what they have to do when the SS goes into action to get them out of a dangerous situation. Trump probably knew what he was supposed to do, but was probably in some sort of shock and not comprehending.

JMO
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In that case should they say ‘one’ shooter down?

After he said shooter down people on the bleachers started moving around as though there was no longer a threat.
 
Hmmm... Were US SS agents spread too thin to cover both events in PA ?? Or is it still DJT's fault because he's too tall, too old, and wanted an outdoor event?

nypost.com

Secret Service had ‘little resources’ to cover Trump rally after NATO summit: whistleblowers

The Secret Service had “little resources” to cover the July 13 campaign rally where former President Donald Trump was nearly assassinated in Pennsylvania after the conclusion of a NATO …
nypost.com nypost.com

The whistleblowers told the House Judiciary Committee that Secret Service Special Agent in Charge Tim Burke revealed the oversight at a July 8 meeting with the FBI, Western Pennsylvania Fusion Center and other law enforcement partners.

The meeting was held to talk over security needs for Trump’s fateful event in Butler, Pa., on top of first lady Jill Biden’s separate event on behalf of her husband’s campaign in Pittsburgh the same day.

and

“We cannot comment on matters related to an ongoing investigation at this time,” Secret Service spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said in a statment.


ETA: IF not the event for Jill Biden maybe the NATO Summit in DC (OR both?)

abc3340.com

Secret Service said it had 'limited resources' during Trump rally, whistleblower claims

The claim potentially sheds new light on the security shortcomings surrounding the Trump assassination attempt.
abc3340.com abc3340.com
 
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JerseyWasHome2 said:
So Crooks had 2 cell phones, not surprising, and they're picking up his digital trail now. I wonder why initially they stated that they hadn't found anything suspicious on his phone (singular), knowing they had 2 to analyze. Kind of misleading to the public. Turns out he wasn't some genius who obliterated his trail after all.
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they may not have found the second phone right away - he had one with him and left one at home
 
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