PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #3

[justtrish]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
I think her responses just fuel that question. They are right to ask it. She says she takes accountability, but HOW? She says the words, but her actions are not backing it up. When they just asked her if she was prepared to fire anyone that is found liable for what happened and she can't even answer that. Again why can't she answer that..

Many have pointed out this would be a very different thing if the shooter had succeeded in his goal. The only reason he didn't is roughly 1/4 inch.. if a protected person dies on someone's watch that is a massive failure and I'm going to say that the reason he didn't die is NOT because of the SS, it was pure luck that Trump turned his head or possibly because a local LEO surprised him and popped his head up and he was then rushed. The SS failed massively and they should treat this as if Trump died because their failure lead to that being a VERY likely possibiliy. She needs to resign.

 

[justtrish]

I am sure there were people in the crowd who recognized that it was gunfire. But many did not.

Of for sure many did not. I was responding to someone that said the victim couldn't have recognized it was gunfire and told his family to get down. Someone stated that they didn't believe that. I was just pointing out that some people did know it immediately and so for the victim to know it and have time to say get down and move toward his family is definately possible.

 

[Sundog]

KC said earlier today that the rooftop that TMC fired from was outside the SS security premeiter.

Is she trying to say that the rooftop outside the security premeiter is on another owners property?

Had the rally been outdoors in the downtown area of any major city, there would have been SS or LE agents on the rooftops of tall buildings no matter who owns the buildings or whose property it is on.

I don't buy KC's contention that the rooftop that TMC fired from is outside the SS security premeiter.

The SS who developed the security plan for the rally are the ones who determined that the ARG building was outside of the perimeter. It was a mistake. It provided a clear line of sight to the podium and was within the distance that a shooter could reach easily with a weapon (140 yards). It sounded to me that she acknowledged that it should have been designated by SS as within the perimeter and that it was a failure to classify it as outside of the perimeter.

 

[Betty P]

I think her responses just fuel that question. They are right to ask it. She says she takes accountability, but HOW? She says the words, but her actions are not backing it up. When they just asked her if she was prepared to fire anyone that is found liable for what happened and she can't even answer that. Again why can't she answer that..

Many have pointed out this would be a very different thing if the shooter had succeeded in his goal. The only reason he didn't is roughly 1/4 inch.. if a protected person dies on someone's watch that is a massive failure and I'm going to say that the reason he didn't die is NOT because of the SS, it was pure luck that Trump turned his head or possibly because a local LEO surprised him and popped his head up and he was then rushed. The SS failed massively and they should treat this as if Trump died because their failure lead to that being a VERY likely possibiliy. She needs to resign.

It's a hearing for fact finding. We'd all like to hear more about what happened.

 

[Simply Southern]

3 additional SS added to the Trump rally, of over 20,000, outdoor event.
12 additional SS added to President wife 400 attendees, in a closed casino ballroom.

Again she refused comment.

Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

She has got to go and go immediately. Only 36 protectees and a former president is shot, 1 killed, two critically insured and she won't answer questions.
Moo

 

[justtrish]

Well she did say that all the the things they requested from local LE was granted. I am not sure what the hold up was on the questions about aerial coverage. They asked why it wasn't requested and she said all requests were honored. Then it was asked again about aerial coverage and she said they had aerial coverage. So is she counting snipers as aerial coverage?

 

[Chimera]

I think a thorough investigation can still take place AND she can answer basic questions about HOW this happened. It does not take witness interviews to explain why that building was not in the perimeter and why a sniper wasn't on that roof. Someone just raised a great point in this hearing that 60 days is too long with this being an election year and the country needs to know that this isn't going to happen again. Of course do the full and complete analysis, but there is no analysis needed to state facts about who decided the perimeter for that event, who decided how many SS were needed, why was SS not part of the morning briefing about the event, why was the perimeter not larger to include those buildings when they were close enough to the protected person and with a direct line of sight to them, and why was Trump allowed to take the stage.

It doesn't matter exactly who was doing what when on the ground and when the gun was put there and where was the ladder, and who's bike, etc etc.. they don't need to comb video evidence and interview everyone at the rally before stating these basic facts. Those facts are what lead to a man being able to have a gun that close to the protected target. When he obtained the gun, what he did that morning, who saw him when, etc doesn't really matter because NONE of that would have had any impact on Trump if the shooter wasn't allowed to be on that roof. If that rooftop was within the protected permitted then he would have no opportunity to get to that vantage point when a weapon of any kind.

Bbm.
Saving this post as I think it's excellent !

Witness testimony can't always be relied on.
From following other cases here I think most can agree ?

However in this assassination attempt, people's accounts sound legitimate.
Because nearly everyone has a phone that can easily take videos and photos, there is irrefutable evidence that there was enough time to stop TC, imo.

Some of the video accounts look quite accurate as far as people sounding the alarm.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/15/politics/video/trump-assassination-attempt-minute-by-minute-digvid

The witnesses spotted TC in plenty of time to stop him, imo !
Starts at about the 01:00 min. mark.

It's tragic that we are here discussing this -- as imo it never should have happened.
The bulk of the blame lies on the directors and heads of security whose job it was to make the event secure for everyone.
Imo.
Omo.

 

[Sundog]

I am familiar with internal investigations, and I respectfully disagree that she should be forthcoming on these details at this point. She's under oath before a congressional committee. If she gets anything wrong or allows herself to open lines of inquiry into questions that have not been completely investigated, she gives the politicos another stick to beat her with. If there is any disciplinary action to be taken against SS staff, the employees involved have a right to due process. If anything she says suggests she has reached conclusions prematurely, she screws up the discipline process. She has these and other reasons to be circumspect in these hearings.

All the committee members know this, and they also know most of the public has no clue. They are using her as a political punching bag, to show the public they share our fears and concerns and impatience. They are playing us, in the most cynical way, by suggesting that it's a realistic expectation that the answers we seek should be available today, when they know that is not a realistic expectation.

All MOO, and with great respect for the very real concerns we all have about the safety and security of our public officials.

I respectfully disagree. They are not using her as a political punching bag, she is the Director of the U.S. Secret Service and the failures in security almost took the life of a former president of the United States and a current candidate for the President of the United States. That's an incredible failure for which she is ultimately responsible. In my opinion, the honorable thing would be for her to resign. The rank and file Secret Service members put their lives on the line as they carry out their mission, and their lives were at risk that day as well. She put our nation at risk, the public at risk, and her employees at risk. Our representatives are doing the right thing by asking her to resign, and I am shocked and appalled at her arrogance and deflection. She is acting like an arrogant and entitled, out of touch bureaucrat and it's time for new leadership who understands the seriousness and consequences of what just happened under Cheatle's watch.

 

[Waxahachie1]

I think her responses just fuel that question. They are right to ask it. She says she takes accountability, but HOW? She says the words, but her actions are not backing it up. When they just asked her if she was prepared to fire anyone that is found liable for what happened and she can't even answer that. Again why can't she answer that..

Many have pointed out this would be a very different thing if the shooter had succeeded in his goal. The only reason he didn't is roughly 1/4 inch.. if a protected person dies on someone's watch that is a massive failure and I'm going to say that the reason he didn't die is NOT because of the SS, it was pure luck that Trump turned his head or possibly because a local LEO surprised him and popped his head up and he was then rushed. The SS failed massively and they should treat this as if Trump died because their failure lead to that being a VERY likely possibiliy. She needs to resign.

She takes accountability by making sure a thorough investigation is conducted before any actions are taken, including her own decision to resign. She takes accountability by assuring the actions takes will have integrity to the facts, whether they are politically satisfying or not.

Moreover, it is entirely possible that the report will highlight the failure of Congress adequately to fund the agency, and that the resulting resource constraints played a big role in this particular failure. Cheatie is not inclined to give them the easy political out: "She's the problem. We forced her resignation. Another problem solved quickly and cheaply by your heroic congressman." I say, good for her.

IMO, she's getting the bum's rush from a cynical congress. I am disappointed but not surprised that members of the public are playing into it.

MOO.

 

[Sundog]

Well she did say that all the the things they requested from local LE was granted. I am not sure what the hold up was on the questions about aerial coverage. They asked why it wasn't requested and she said all requests were honored. Then it was asked again about aerial coverage and she said they had aerial coverage. So is she counting snipers as aerial coverage?

Apparently the SS has the technology to determine if a drone was used at the site even if they didn't see a wayward drone or have information that one had been there. We know they didn't use drones of their own that day, but did they check to see if someone else had used a drone recently at the site? Lots of security abilities not used that day.

 

[Sarahlou]

This "sloped roof" argument seems odd. The secret service counter snipers behind Trump were on a roof that appears more sloped than the one from which Crooks fired from.

Incredible footage captures unseen moment as Trump is shot

The moment counter-snipers react as former President Donald Trump is shot at has been caught on camera.

7news.com.au

The sloped roof argument is nonsense. But it is all very odd indeed.

 

[Chimera]

Some more msm news videos of the witnesses apprehensions regarding why TC was there on that roof ?

Witness captures chilling footage of gunman aiming at Trump rally

We're hearing from the man who took the now viral video of the suspect perched on a roof in the attempted assassination attempt of former President Donald Trump

foxbaltimore.com

"We were there maybe 10 minutes waiting for Mr. Trump to come on. And then after he came on and started to speak, after he started, my wife nudged me and said, hey, what's going on behind us ? That's when we noticed some commotion," said Difrischia.

Difrischia said he noticed Crooks climbing the roof of the building--which was just over the length of a football field from where Trump stood--then noticed he had a gun.

He said they tried alerting police then took cover.
Notice how the building TC ascended is just one story with a very shallow sloped roof ?
Easy to climb on.

Signs of trouble were evident in the minutes before shots rang out at Donald Trump’s rally in Pennsylvania: Police had a report of a suspicious man pacing near the magnetometers and were apparently exchanging photos of the suspect.

At about 0:13 seconds you can see TC appear to climb or hoist himself onto the lower edge of that roof.
At 0:46 second it looks like he hunches upwards and then pushes the rifle forward ?
There was ample time to stop him and prevent the murder and injuries !

I realize it's speaking 'after the fact' ... but for starters I'd have made sure no one could get on any of those roofs.
Too sloped or not.
Too hot or not.
Or even if not a 'sterile roof', whatever that's supposed to mean.

Disgraceful.
Omo.

 

[nerosleuth]

Representative Greene listed the types of items the SS prohibits at a rally, and KC couldn't tell what constitutes a threat when the general public with no security background can clearly see that the suspicious person on the roof is a clear and present danger threat.

My goodness no wonder folks don't have any confidence with the current SS director.

 

[Chimera]

I am sure there were people in the crowd who recognized that it was gunfire. But many did not.

Agreed.

During that month it's also common to hear fireworks going off ?
It's also different hearing it in person, as opposed to a video.
Omo.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Would KC have to be fired by President Biden? I doubt that will happen because they have a long time relationship since she served on his security team when he was VP. I hope she sees the writing on the wall and resigns promptly.

 

[sunspun]

I'd say most assumed in the crowd that the threat was to Trump and not them specifically.

This is what I think is the reason people didn't start running immediately (or ever actually). I think many of them did realize it was gunshots and that Trump had been hit, but they thought that he was the target, not them. So at that point, they were more invested in finding out Trump's condition, if he was alive or not, than they were in running to safety.

And then that's another thing too, in that kind of situation, how do you know which way is safety? How to know which way to run, if you run? Maybe where you are IS the place of safety, how would anyone know? You don't know where the shots are coming from, and you don't know if you could be running right INTO danger instead of away. Could be another reason they seemed frozen where they were.

 

[Sundog]

Her canned answers aren't flying. Should we do a poll on when she will be gone?

The Congressman on the committee from Florida made a good point, that Cheatle's testimony (or lack thereof) today is comparable to the testimonies given by the presidents of Harvard and Univ of Pennsylvania when they appeared before Congress earlier this year. They were pretty smug as well with their responses and both of them have since been fired.

It won't take long, as long as Congress, the public and the media keep the pressure on. I suspect there will be some whistle blowers as well who have lots to see about her leadership of the agency.

It's just a matter of time before she resigns or is fired. She's probably already planning where she'll go next in the federal government so she can keep her pension and other benefits until she is ready to retire on her own terms. MOO.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

ABC Exclusive: Trump rally shooting 'unacceptable,' Secret Service director says

In her first network interview since the assassination attempt on Trump, Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle said the Pennsylvania rally shooting was "unacceptable."

abcnews.go.com

"...Cheatle responded to reports that the suspect was seen and identified as potentially suspicious before he opened fire, saying that "a very short period of time" passed between then and the shooting.

"I don't have all the details yet, but it was a very short period of time," she said. "Seeking that person out, finding them, identifying them, and eventually neutralizing them took place in a very short period of time, and it makes it very difficult. ..."
Red and green bolded by me.

Red bolded : I'd beg to differ.
There was a long enough time that elapsed that TC could have been stopped by any means possible and Corey Comperatore would still be alive.

Green bolded : This article was dated July 16th , so the interview was early in the investigation.
Without knowing all of the eyewitness accounts or speaking to those people (memories can be faulty ?); her job was fairly basic : To ensure the safety of the former president and the rally attendees.

Any rooftops should have been secured, and no way in the world should TC have been able to walk around and scale that building in plain site of the crowd !
At the very least, Trump should have been delayed from stepping onto the stage.

The second quoted paragraph in the link sounds like so much 'word salad'.
I guess it's commendable that according to this article K. Cheatle is taking responsibility ?
Omo

She doesn't seem to realize she makes the Secret Service look worse. The Secret Service shouldn't be outmaneuvered by some rando. This just seems like such an invitation for school shooter types to instead be political shooters if they think they can do as well or better than TMC.

 

[Sundog]

Would KC have to be fired by President Biden? I doubt that will happen because they have a long time relationship since she served on his security team when he was VP. I hope she sees the writing on the wall and resigns promptly.

My understanding is that the Secret Service reports to the Secretary of Homeland Security. So I would think that Mayorkas can fire her -- if he wanted to. I doubt that will happen.