PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #4

[Chimera]

The Secret Service did a poor job by looking at the evidence of people dead and injured at an event they were in charge of providing security.

JMO.

Agreed.

There was no reason Corey Comperatore had to die.
None.
And the other three who were injured, and could have died !
The attendees themselves could see there was a security risk, attempted to sound the alarm, and still nothing was done.
Moments went by ... that were the difference between life and death for one spectator.
This was incompetence, laziness, or worse; imo.
The bulk of the blame will always lie on the shooter, TC.
But directly after him, the secret service should have been trained enough to deal with TC before he fired a shot.
Omo.

 

[shotgun09]

It appears, from the ABC clipped interview posted above ^^^ that the Beaver County officers were not able to communicate with SS. Also, the SS never showed up to a scheduled earlier in the day meeting. The lack of coordinating and communicating is clearly in the hands of the SS, as they are the entity in charge. It will be interesting to see the entire interview on Monday when it finally airs. Again, the safety and reassurance to the American people must wait.... sigh

 

[Ruminations]

You don't see a problem with not being able to prevent a 20 yr old from climbing to an elevated position with a rifle 140 yards from the president and taking eight shots at him, killing and wounding whoever was in the way? This was a massive failure by the SS, and there is no way I would feel safe attending a political event now. If this kid can do this I shudder to think what a sane, skilled, well trained and financed international or domestic assassin could do. Heads need to roll.

Of course I see a security failure. We all do.

I do see a security problem with allowing the shooter to climb to an elevated position 140 yards from a protected presidential candidate. The security problem is being assessed.

So far one head did roll, although the value of the firing is dubious- symbolic perhaps to express the awfulness of the day.

At this point, there is no evidence that the problem was a failure of the Secret Service. That is the point I am making.

Everyone on this thread is outraged at the days events. We all see a problem. But you can't solve a problem before identifying it.

My opinion that there is no evidence at this time that the Secret Service is to blame for the security failures is not even a little bit the same as not seeing a problem.

My opinion is that it does not appear to be the secret service's actions or inactions that caused the security lapse. At this time, there is no evidence that the security lapse was the Secret Service's doing or failure to act.

MOO

 

[RANCH]

There has to be one agency in charge at an event like this. And that agency is the Secret Service.

The idea that every LE agency on scene is responsible for planning their role doesn't make any sense. A free for all security plan is no plan at all. JMO.

 

[Luna20]

Okay. It remains that there is no evidence that secret service made errors.

As for increasing their budget- that is largely determined on the House of Representatives, so if you are advocating for a larger budget, start with your US representative.

But remember, candidates are competing with one another, and will want the most attractive campaign events possible with as much contact with voters as possible. In addition, they want to attract as much free media as possible, so news-worthy events are ideal for campaigns- much cheaper and more organic than ads. You are saying that no matter the venue, the secret service staff should just size itself appropriately for it. I think, due to the competitive nature of campaigns, this will create a trend to riskier and riskier venues- as candidates will enjoy just expecting secret service to grow with their ideas. Why would candidate B use an expensive sports arena when candidate A is using a less expensive outdoor field on private property that is not designated as a destination for crowds? The higher risks are not an issue; candidate B can now expect a larger government security force for free.

Once again, there is no evidence that Secret Service erred on the day of the assassination.

MOO

No way around this.
Directly from Cheatle:

“In light of recent events, it is with a heavy heart that, I have made the difficult decision to step down as your Director,” Cheatle wrote. She acknowledged that on July 13, the day of the shooting, the agency “fell short” of its mission “to protect our nation’s leaders.”

“During her House Oversight appearance, Cheatle acknowledged that there were “significant” and “colossal” problems with the security at the rally, but still rebuffed demands for her resignation”



I don’t think Cheatle would have resigned if she could unequivocally say that the SS was not in error. If it were my job and I knew it wasn’t my fault I would have traced every step to show that it wasn’t with my superiors.

Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle resigns | CNN Politics

US Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle has tendered her resignation amid scrutiny of security lapses related to the recent assassination attempt of former President Donald Trump, sources tell CNN.

amp.cnn.com

 

[Elley Mae]

The entire interview with these SWAT team members will air on Monday. Interesting...

Failure of communication: Local SWAT team details account of Trump rally assassination attempt

In an exclusive interview with ABC News, local SWAT details account of the assassination attempt of former President Donald Trump at his rally.

abcnews.go.com

.

Didn’t cheatle say there was no recordings of communications?

Was that a cover for this information that they didn’t share their communications with local LE.

It’s as if the SS is above talking to local LE.

This is not good.

 

[Luna20]

No way around this.
Directly from Cheatle:

“In light of recent events, it is with a heavy heart that, I have made the difficult decision to step down as your Director,” Cheatle wrote. She acknowledged that on July 13, the day of the shooting, the agency “fell short” of its mission “to protect our nation’s leaders.”

“During her House Oversight appearance, Cheatle acknowledged that there were “significant” and “colossal” problems with the security at the rally, but still rebuffed demands for her resignation”



I don’t think Cheatle would have resigned if she could unequivocally say that the SS was not in error. If it were my job and I knew it wasn’t my fault I would have traced every step to show that it wasn’t with my superiors.

Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle resigns | CNN Politics

US Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle has tendered her resignation amid scrutiny of security lapses related to the recent assassination attempt of former President Donald Trump, sources tell CNN.

amp.cnn.com

ETA:

“Significant and Colossal”

 

[Puzzles8]

MOO

I am confused how there is no damage to Trump's ear at all in the photos from yesterday's rally after one of the testimonies last week said he had a 2cm hole/wound in his ear.

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newsroom.ap.org

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newsroom.ap.org

I am too. Given a bullet grazed his ear, I would expect at least a significant scab for a while. My impression from looking at photos that day was that the bullet destroyed some ear cartilage.

Hollywood Makeup Artists do great work for films. I think they would have no problem making a thin prosthetic to cover an ear wound. After all, IMO, Trump is no stranger to makeup.....

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Of course I see a security failure. We all do.

I do see a security problem with allowing the shooter to climb to an elevated position 140 yards from a protected presidential candidate. The security problem is being assessed.

So far one head did roll, although the value of the firing is dubious- symbolic perhaps to express the awfulness of the day.

At this point, there is no evidence that the problem was a failure of the Secret Service. That is the point I am making.

Everyone on this thread is outraged at the days events. We all see a problem. But you can't solve a problem before identifying it.

My opinion that there is no evidence at this time that the Secret Service is to blame for the security failures is not even a little bit the same as not seeing a problem.

My opinion is that it does not appear to be the secret service's actions or inactions that caused the security lapse. At this time, there is no evidence that the security lapse was the Secret Service's doing or failure to act.

MOO

I agree. It's time now for everyone to move on. Even though they weren't directly responsible for the lapse in security, it was their plan, they took responsibility. It's time to move on. The FBI and DHS will continue to investigate and will keep us posted. SS has moved on. They have a big responsibility in an election year with lots of people to protect.

 

[Betty P]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

The only problem I can see is that they should have included the sniper's building in their own circle of security. Since they didn't have enough of their own agents to cover it, they should have told Trump to hold the event indoors or cancel it.

 

[Ruminations]

ETA:

“Significant and Colossal”

As it turned out, she resigned without saying where exactly the significant and colossal failures lied.

She took responsibility, but that does not mean her agency's actions or inactions caused the security failure. It just means she wanted to show the public she agrees with the seriousness of the situation.

When she stepped down, she said it was because she was a distraction. I think she wanted to get the topic off the easy part-knowing there was a security failure- and on to the real work of preventing a repeat.

There is no evidence so far that actions or inactions on the part of Secret Service caused the security failure.

MIO

 

[Puzzles8]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
My impression is the SS was the highest level agency in charge. Everyone else ultimately reported to them.
IMO, SS should have had a clear master plan, a clear chain of command and a clear hierarchy of communications.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

There has to be one agency in charge at an event like this. And that agency is the Secret Service.

The idea that every LE agency on scene is responsible for planning their role doesn't make any sense. A free for all security plan is no plan at all. JMO.

SS had a plan. They developed it and explained it to all of the other LE there. If some local/state LE chose to change that plan unilaterally, its on them. There's no punishment for Local/State LE, just living with the knowledge that they dropped the ball.

Everybody learned something. The investigation will show things the SS should change. If there are criminal charges, they will be brought, but personally I don't see that as being necessary.

For those who disagree, what's the end game? Abolish the Secret Service? Make all the politicians hire their own security guards?

 

[Chimera]

Great point! Seems like they opted out of crime scene integrity. I have questions about how far away the rifle was from the body. It appears he did not have the rifle in hand (or within reach) when shot. Could it have been kicked aside by LE when they went up and secured the site? Possible. Just weird.

Bbm.
I do as well !
Why would they move the rifle, if they did ?
Isn't that tampering with the crime scene ?

No one seems to be wearing gloves at the photos in the article, so wouldn't their 'prints' then be on the weapon ?

I'd assume TC's body would be on top of or maybe slightly to the side of it, if he was using a tripod/bipod/monopod to stabilize it for correct aim -- which it looks like he wasn't using one.
Unless someone moved it prior to the photos being taken ?


This was the first time I'd read this particular Daily Mail article; and I have questions which I'll address below the link.

Video: Trump shooter Thomas Matthew Crooks seen dead on the roof

The chilling clip shows law enforcement agents stood around the lifeless body of Thomas Crooks, 20, moments after he shot at Trump during a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.

www.dailymail.co.uk

From the DM link --
Blurred but graphic photo :

The Secret Service agent also states that
people who had been filming in the moments leading up have also been detained.

'Maybe they were involved, maybe they weren't.
The guys that saw them said,
"they were filming us, then filming the guy on the roof, then filming us".
' he says.

'When the shots started firing they tried to run away,

isn't that what everyone would do that had a phone?
I'm not saying they were involved or they weren't involved, but I got no problem detaining them.
Red and green emphasis mine.

This article was dated July 23 then updated the 24th, taken from earlier information -- so the people who filmed T.C. were most likely questioned at the rally site and released ?

Red bolded : Why would people openly film a threatening man sneakily crawling up a roof, if they were "involved" themselves ?
It makes no sense, what that secret service agent is saying.
That wasn't the 'vibe' I was getting !
The other rally goers were alarmed and rightfully so.

From the link : "...They tried to run away..." Well, no kidding. When bullets start flying you'd better at least get behind a car or a tree or the edge of a building.
It doesn't mean the spectators were involved.
It's dismaying to think this secret service agent may have been casting doubt on people who were scrambling for safety.
Just an observation.

Green bolded : Maybe the secret service do not want to be filmed, no matter what ?
It's a fact many people have their phones handy these days, and in this case they captured vital information; although it did no good as far as preventing the shooter murdering and wounding people.
Not the fault of the rally goers.
Omo.

 

[shotgun09]

I am too. Given a bullet grazed his ear, I would expect at least a significant scab for a while. My impression from looking at photos that day was that the bullet destroyed some ear cartilage.

Hollywood Makeup Artists do great work for films. I think they would have no problem making a thin prosthetic to cover an ear wound. After all, IMO, Trump is no stranger to makeup.....

JMO

Wouldn't that have been something !!!
Trump comes out two weeks after the shooting, and his right ear looks like Spocks !!???

Sometimes, I crack myself up. I have to....

 

[layer]

Didn’t cheatle say there was no recordings of communications?

If I recall correctly she said all digital device communications were saved, but radio communications were not recorded.

 

[Ruminations]

You can't be serious.
Secret Service chief admits errors

I'm serious.

She didn't say in that article that the errors were actions or inactions of the secret service.

She just said what we all know. There was a problem.

Is it that Secret Service should have told Trump no to that venue that day? That is the only theory I heard that would make sense, but that assumes something along those lines would have been possible. If I learn that Secret Service could have told Trump it is too dangerous and could have compelled him to comply with their security parameters, then I will change my opinion.

At this point, the only suggestion I have seen that Secret Service could have taken a different action is that- if they had the ability to refuse the venue and failed to that, if it happened, would change my opinion.

at this point, there is no evidence that Secret Service failed to tell Trump "no" to an outdoor rally, or made any other errors.

The article you cite just states the obvious- something went wrong. It does not specify what, let alone identify by whom.

MOO

Edited to add, our Certified Boomer Shotgun is also highlighting a possible future ABC press piece that might point to erroneous action or failure to act by the Secret Service. The teaser is that a local LE is claiming Secret Service didn't communicate with them.

I'm reserving judgement, because they can't take that all the way to "Secret Service didn't meet with us and tell us not to leave vacancies or lose our card keys."

There is a problem. We don't know what, and at this point, there is no evidence it was the actions or inactions of the Secret Service. Maybe tomorrow ABC will give us reason to believe there was something very wrong with communication. We will learn tomorrow. Watch this space. It may be where Rummy does what Rummy does a lot: changes their own opinion.

 

[Betty P]

Why would they move the rifle, if they did ?
Isn't that tampering with the crime scene ?

No one seems to be wearing gloves at the photos in the article, so wouldn't their 'prints' then be on the weapon ?

I watched the video several times. I didn't see anyone touch the shooter or the victim. The SS was asking LE (State Police?) if someone could tape off the area. There's no evidence anyone touched the shooter or the weapon without wearing gloves. They were trying to get people who could handle the crime scene.

ETA: The rifle probably flew out of the shooters hands when he was shot by the SS sniper.

I think I saw another photo where LE (not SS) were turning the shooter over.

 

[RANCH]

SS had a plan. They developed it and explained it to all of the other LE there. If some local/state LE chose to change that plan unilaterally, its on them. There's no punishment for Local/State LE, just living with the knowledge that they dropped the ball.

Everybody learned something. The investigation will show things the SS should change. If there are criminal charges, they will be brought, but personally I don't see that as being necessary.

For those who disagree, what's the end game? Abolish the Secret Service? Make all the politicians hire their own security guards?

So when the Secret Service detail saw that local LE wasn't complying with their plan they ignored it and let President Trump go up on the stage.

Doing nothing to prevent the shooter from firing is also why the Secret Service failed to do their job. JMO.

 

[Chimera]

Trump shooting investigations focus on motive, security failures

The U.S. Secret Service is facing mounting questions about the security flaws that allowed the shooter to fire from a rooftop near the rally.

www.cbsnews.com

The U.S. Secret Service was notified by the Pennsylvania State Police of a suspicious person with a rangefinder on the ground at 5:51 p.m. on Saturday — about 20 minutes before the gunman opened fire,
Cellphone video also shows rally attendees pointing toward the shooter, later identified as 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks, and trying to alert authorities to his presence — a full two minutes before he opened fire on the former president.
Red bolding mine.

From this article, it seemed like rally attendees may have tried to alert both the state police and the secret service ?
And imo -- two minutes was long enough for a cop to demand that TC put his hands up and then get a cop on that roof to see what he was doing up there.
Two minutes to prevent carnage.
Omo.