PA PA - Betsy Aardsma, 22, murdered in Pattee Library, Penn State, 29 Nov 1969

[littlehorn]

Those cases are also very heartbreaking. Can you imagine losing your daughter/sister to a violent murder only then to be taunted about her death later. What the ba$tard (killer or not) did to Lindy's gravesite was horrible!! Even if it wasn't the killer they should be locked up somewhere-only a very disturbed person would do something like that.

That site was somewhat of an inspiration for me to start www.whokilledbetsy.com. I spoke to the brother of Cindy Mirack and he encouraged me to try to get involved in the Aardsma case via a website/generation of publicity. I hope Lindy and Christy's murders are solved at some point, not that it will change the pain that their families feel, but it would be nice to see justice in our lifetimes.

Derek

 

[littlehorn]

That isn't the only place that is stated. It is also in the Betsy Aardsma Timeline. "Supervisor Tom Whalen finds a burning candle on the floor of the Aardma murder scene. Spread around are original newspaper clippings." What made this even more chilling (to me) was that, according to the timeline, Whalen found this shrine between 4pm-5pm. This person had it timed down almost to the exact moment that Betsy took her last breath. (Thank you so much, littlehorn, for links to all of that information.)

If it wasn't the killer that left the original clippings at the scene on the 25 year anniversary, then who? If it weren't for that menacing message "I'm back", I could almost believe it was an old friend that saved the clippings.

After re-reading those articles I'm convinced it was the killer that left the shrine and message in 1994. The one in 1999, I'm not so sure about. It wasn't even left in the same aisle that Betsy was murdered in. But who knows?

I agree. I think the '99 shrine was probably either a copycat, or someone just trying to memorialize her -- an enthusiast, so to speak.

Thanks for re-reading those! I had forgotten that specific detail since it's been awhile since I read the articles myself. I did confirm talking with one of my sources that the article is correct, and the newspaper articles were original.

So someone went to the trouble of saving those clippings for 25 frickin' years, only to lay them out with the candles, etc.

What I'm surprised is that no one saw anyone coming in with what must have been a handbag or suitcase to contain candles, clippings, paint, etc., to set this thing up.

Derek

 

[MaryLiz]

I agree. I think the '99 shrine was probably either a copycat, or someone just trying to memorialize her -- an enthusiast, so to speak.

Thanks for re-reading those! I had forgotten that specific detail since it's been awhile since I read the articles myself. I did confirm talking with one of my sources that the article is correct, and the newspaper articles were original.

So someone went to the trouble of saving those clippings for 25 frickin' years, only to lay them out with the candles, etc.

What I'm surprised is that no one saw anyone coming in with what must have been a handbag or suitcase to contain candles, clippings, paint, etc., to set this thing up.

Derek

I wondered about that before...How could anyone get all that stuff in there and take the time to set up the shrine without being seen? It's almost like it had to be someone with access to the place when it wasn't open?? That might sound dumb but I just can't figure out how anyone could go through all that and NOT be detected, especially setting out everything in the aisle.

 

[littlehorn]

I wondered about that before...How could anyone get all that stuff in there and take the time to set up the shrine without being seen? It's almost like it had to be someone with access to the place when it wasn't open?? That might sound dumb but I just can't figure out how anyone could go through all that and NOT be detected, especially setting out everything in the aisle.

The stacks are fairly abandoned, but every time I have been there, there have at least been people around. Not necessarily within eyesight, but close enough that I would have felt weird, say, vandalizing an aisle.

Derek

 

[Rhett]

A large purse or a backpack could hold those items.

 

[Talisman]

A large purse or a backpack could hold those items.

I agree, Rhett. Nothing would look suspicious about a person carrying a backpack/bookbag into a college library. I don't remember if it was reported how big the shrine was, but even a large purse could hold a candle, some newspaper clippings, and whatever else was left there.

I wonder if littlehorn has had any luck with the idenification of the two individuals he considered suspects?

 

[MaryLiz]

I agree, Rhett. Nothing would look suspicious about a person carrying a backpack/bookbag into a college library. I don't remember if it was reported how big the shrine was, but even a large purse could hold a candle, some newspaper clippings, and whatever else was left there.

I wonder if littlehorn has had any luck with the idenification of the two individuals he considered suspects?

Yes, Rhett and Talisman, you're both right. It probably wouldn't arouse suspicion carrying a backpack in. But setting the stuff in the aisle and writing her name and the dates of her birth and death and the "I'm back." It just seem like it had to have been done at a time when hardly no one was around. Even though it sounds from the way littlehorn describes it, that it can be pretty deserted there, there are still people around.

 

[littlehorn]

Yes, Rhett and Talisman, you're both right. It probably wouldn't arouse suspicion carrying a backpack in. But setting the stuff in the aisle and writing her name and the dates of her birth and death and the "I'm back." It just seem like it had to have been done at a time when hardly no one was around. Even though it sounds from the way littlehorn describes it, that it can be pretty deserted there, there are still people around.

I have 3 pretty strong leads right now that I'm working on. I agree, it makes sense that no one would notice someone bringing those items in depending on the size of the container. Will keep you posted as I find out more information. Now it's getting into the tricky part.

I wonder if a returning 'Nam vet with emotional issues could have done something like that? A grad student perhaps with PTSD?

 

[Talisman]

MaryBeth, the only thing I can think of is that the holiday break would have been at that time. Less students and faculty members present on campus? A little easier to go unseen. If it was the killer who actually left the shrine in '94, he must have really had it planned out anyway. I think he really went prepared and had the stuff put together to quickly assemble/place the memorial as to not be detected. Whoever it was, they were determined and successful.

Thank you, MaryBeth

 

[Talisman]

I have 3 pretty strong leads right now that I'm working on. I agree, it makes sense that no one would notice someone bringing those items in depending on the size of the container. Will keep you posted as I find out more information. Now it's getting into the tricky part.

I wonder if a returning 'Nam vet with emotional issues could have done something like that? A grad student perhaps with PTSD?

littlehorn,
Wow, I thought you only had two you were working on. Thanks for responding.
You are doing so much for Betsy, trying to get her story out there.:clap:
I hope that this thread gets alot of attention. She was such a beautiful young lady full of so much hope. Thank you.

(I went over to the Zodiac site like Kline suggested, but they really aren't discussing the case. That was the other day though, maybe now they are. Do you belong to any other sites [don't name them, I'm not sure if you're allowed] Just wanted to know what, if any, thoughts or ideas other people were throwing around. Thanks.)

 

[MaryLiz]

I have 3 pretty strong leads right now that I'm working on. I agree, it makes sense that no one would notice someone bringing those items in depending on the size of the container. Will keep you posted as I find out more information. Now it's getting into the tricky part.

I wonder if a returning 'Nam vet with emotional issues could have done something like that? A grad student perhaps with PTSD?

Good luck..and I agree with Talisman that you're doing a wonderful job getting Betsy's story out there. Please do keep us posted. I know it's tricky too...you can only reveal so much about what you find out.

The 'Nam Vet theory is very plausible. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[Talisman]

littlehorn,

I hate to backtrack and keep asking more questions, but has the theory that two individuals involved with the murder been put to rest completely?

I apologize ahead here, my mind keeps flip-flopping about this case. One minute I'm sure it's a thrill killer acting alone .... then it is a wrong place at the wrong time situation .... then persoanl vendetta...etc.:banghead:

What if it was a situation like Leopold & Loeb? Entirely different scenario with the kidnapping and murder of 14 yr old Bobby Franks, but what if it was that sort of calculating coldness. One wouldn't have done it alone, but with the collision of those two personalities a murder was commited. There were two men seen talking to a female (possibly Betsy) in the stacks. Two men were seen leaving the stacks when the one said "Somebody better help that girl" I don't think that man said that to get Betsy help, it was a diversion. If Henry Lee Lucas and Otis Toole could be partners (two men I can hardly believe knew how to tie their own shoes) and get away with it as long as they did----imagine a 1969 version of Leopold and Loeb, young, highly intelligent, but seeing people as only objects. ....anyway, just wondering if the 'two men' theory was closed?

I agree with MaryBeth about the 'Nam theory. Many tortured human beings came back from that real life nightmare. Damaged. Overlooked. Spit upon. (OT-my cousin, Dave, was one of those men. I don't remeber a whole lot about him before he left, except he was nice. I liked him. He had 'Charles Manson eyes' when he came back. Nobody in the family wanted to be around him--it was like his eyes had no soul behind them. So sad.)

littlehorn, it must be so hard knowing stuff that you can't divulge:silenced: Then again you also have to know that it is only a matter of time, because of the information you have, that Betsy will have some justice.

 

[gaia227]

The only person who knew exactly where Betsy Aardsma was that day was the professor who she had just met with who recommended some reading material for her. Has the connection between these two been examined very closely? Is there a possibility of an affair between teacher and student? He realized she was not going to leave her fiance for him or perhaps she threatened to expose the affair and he wanted her taken care of. It doesn't have the tell signs of a crime of passion however but who knows he could have just been a very calm, cool collected kinda guy.

Because of the very precise and quick manner it almost seems like a hit, a murder for hire except it is very hard to figure who would hire someone to kill Betsy. Seems unlikely.

She could have been the object of a stalker. I think whoever did this craved attention and felt like they were smarter than everyone else. She was murdered in a very public place in a fashion that garnered little attention. If the killer was the man who said, better go check on that girl, that buys into his need to feel smarter. He kills her and then tells someone to go get help for the girl he just murdered and then he walks away - that makes him feel invincible. The shrines left at the murder site, if they are being left by the killer, are another sign of wanting attention. He wants people talking about this murder, he wants cops to be baffled and unable to catch him. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't look at messageboards dedicated to this and get great satisfaction out of it.
The only problem with this is he would have all the makings of a serial killer and would crave that attention and power again and re-committ, but you never know maybe he is really scared of death and getting caught could result in his ultimate demise or for some reason he never committed any other murders and is able to control his impulses enough to keep it in check....or maybe he has committed other murders who are now Jane Does. He continues to revist the site of the murder because that is a source of invincibility and power.

 

[Talisman]

gaia227,

As far as her English prof murdering her ....most of the people in the library at the time were students from her 501 class with that professor. His students would have recognized him and remembered him being there.

Your point about him reading messageboards and getting satisfaction out of it is something I actually consider. It really pizzes me off. He is getting attention by us putting Betsy's case out there...but he is not the one getting my attention...BETSY AARDSMA, is the one that is getting my attention. He was just a lowlife murderer, end of story. She was a beautiful young woman with so much to live for. He is probably just a speck of mud on the pavement at the local WalMart parking lot...compared to that beautiful smile of hers. She wins my attention hands-down.

I hope he IS reading this and he'll know that he didn't win afterall. It doesn't really take that much intelligence to commit a murder. It takes alot more strength, stamina, and intellect to make it through life without stabbing a fellow human being. Betsy made it to Grad school without doing it to someone. So yeah, in my mind, Betsy was the winner. The short amount of years she spent on this earth were probably spent with more laughter, loving, and living than his long miserable life.

gaia227, I am so sorry for the rant. Thank you so much for your input.

 

[Talisman]

gaia227,


I hope you don't think my last post was aimed at your post or you. Just venting about Betsy's murderer.
Infact your post was very insightful. Didn't mean to go off on a tangent.

 

[kline]

Interesting thoughts!
I think its wonderful Littlehorn has got this case talked about again.
I cant beleive I missed that those were original clippings at the 94 shrine.
Wow.
How many people besides investigators and family do you suppose kept an original set of vintage clippings all those years?
Id bet the house and lot it was the responsible.
Creepy in the extreme it also sheds light on alot of our scenarios.
She certainly was pretty enough to inspire a stalker though I still find it hard to feature someone following her then when she gets to the library going "Ah! the perfect spot to strike!"
As far as the silencing her as a spur of the moment decision ,which I still dont really believe...if it was the case I would look at a sexual incident she may have witnessed such as a homosexual act by some closet case.
I could concievably see a panic reaction at the fear of being discovered...
if he's also the type of guy who packs a hunting knife along when he cruises the library aisles I guess.
Like I said I have hard time investing much in that scenario,but who knows? Certainly not me.

 

[littlehorn]

littlehorn,
Wow, I thought you only had two you were working on. Thanks for responding.
You are doing so much for Betsy, trying to get her story out there.:clap:
I hope that this thread gets alot of attention. She was such a beautiful young lady full of so much hope. Thank you.

(I went over to the Zodiac site like Kline suggested, but they really aren't discussing the case. That was the other day though, maybe now they are. Do you belong to any other sites [don't name them, I'm not sure if you're allowed] Just wanted to know what, if any, thoughts or ideas other people were throwing around. Thanks.)

Yes, the Zodiac board discussion has pretty well stagnated. I appreciate your enthusiasm and I'm glad I've had such a great audience and group to help me reason through this. It has really helped a lot. I do hope that in some way this helps solve the case. I'm still wondering though if the police have enough evidence to solve it or not, if given the right suspect.

I have put this on a couple of other boards -- I was on the In Session boards at Court TV, the About dot com boards, the James Lee Burke book forum, etc. Hopefully mentioning them is not against the rules.

 

[littlehorn]

Good luck..and I agree with Talisman that you're doing a wonderful job getting Betsy's story out there. Please do keep us posted. I know it's tricky too...you can only reveal so much about what you find out.

The 'Nam Vet theory is very plausible. I hadn't thought of that.

It's just a thought, but who else but a military person would have the "grab and kill" from behind knife technique down to a science like that? I can't see your average college student knowing how to execute sentry suppression close combat maneuvers, LOL.

Derek

 

[littlehorn]

littlehorn,

I hate to backtrack and keep asking more questions, but has the theory that two individuals involved with the murder been put to rest completel

littlehorn, it must be so hard knowing stuff that you can't divulge:silenced: Then again you also have to know that it is only a matter of time, because of the information you have, that Betsy will have some justice.

I don't mind answering your questions at all! The two men thing is up in the air. like you say, two killers adds a level of complexity that makes it much harder to come up with a reasonable motive. Plus, two murders adds a level of "why hasn't either ever been arrested or caught doing it again, or come forward to save his own skin?"

The bottom line is, the two men theory is up in the air. Some witnesses saw one, some claim to have seen two. Without looking at the police files, I can't say which is correct -- and the mists of time may have obscured the truth altogether. One of the key witnesses passed away in 2002.

If I find out more about that, I will let you know.

 

[littlehorn]

The only person who knew exactly where Betsy Aardsma was that day was the professor who she had just met with who recommended some reading material for her. Has the connection between these two been examined very closely? Is there a possibility of an affair between teacher and student? He realized she was not going to leave her fiance for him or perhaps she threatened to expose the affair and he wanted her taken care of. It doesn't have the tell signs of a crime of passion however but who knows he could have just been a very calm, cool collected kinda guy.

oever did this craved attention and felt like they were smarter than everyone else. She was murdered in a very public place in a fashion that garnered little attention. If the killer was the man who said, better go check on that girl, that buys into his need to feel smarter. He kills her and then tells someone to go get help for the girl he just murdered and then he walks away - that makes him feel invincible. The shrines left at the murder site, if they are being left by the killer, are another sign of wanting attention. He wants people talking about this murder, he wants cops to be baffled and unable to catch him. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't look at messageboards dedicated to this and get great satisfaction out of it.

Harrison Meserole was the professor, and he passed away many years ago. I think he has been ruled out completely due to Betsy's excellent character, and also to the fact that he had office visits scheduled all that afternoon -- so he was in meetings with other students in 30 minute blocks before and after Betsy.

I think the hitman idea is probably less likely due to the nature of the crime. What professional would do a job like that in a library at any time or on any day? He could easily have taken her out in her dorm, etc. I think that it's more likely that someone with a military background would know how to kill effectively like that.

I''m sorry I'm not more lucid, it's been a busy two days, and I need to get some sleep, LOL.