PA PA - Carol Dougherty, 9, Bristol, 22 Oct 1962

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The church has taken a more proactive approach to eradicating these crimes, but hasn't gone far enough.

Money talks

Victims need to continue to combine forces and effect change though legal remedy.
 
Yes, it was. And there was no other entrance except from inside through the sacristy.

There are side doors on the church so there are other entrances. I took pictures the last time I was there, And will see if I can find them, If not I will head over there and take some more.

It is a pretty little church having been in it for my nephews shows when he attended the school.
 
Can anybody confirm if or not, Carol Ann attended St Margaret's Parochial School please?

Edited also to ask if anybody has any info on the ''Everybody's birthday'' event that the St Margaret's mothers group ran AND if anybody can put Carol Ann at any of those events.
Thanking in advance.

Edit. I found this ''Her fifth grade classmates at St. Mark's Parochial School were honorary pall bearers.'' So, it's not St Margaret's school but I'm still interested in looking at any events run where they had a 'Everybody's birthday' celebration. Maybe St Marks had one too?
 
Can anybody provide me with Carol Ann's birth date please?
I can't put my hands on it right now. I know she had recently celebrated her 10th birthday, so date of birth would have been October, possibly September, 1952. I'll keep looking. It's here somewhere.
 
I think she was still 9.. I have to look I have it some where.
 
The event that St Margaret's group ran consisted of 12 tables, one for each month of the year. What ever month you celebrated your birthday on was on what table you sat. It's interesting just for the number 12.
 
There are different approaches to pedophile grooming. Some pick one child who they are "in love" with and shower them with attention and are careful and cautious with sex. Some groom several children in a "nice" way. Others are walking demons who grab ahold of any moment alone with a child and do what they want and threaten the child with death to themselves and/or the child's family. Both methods tend to work quite well with most children. Some of these people will have molested 100's of children in their lifetimes and will have killed a few, too, while cloaking themselves in respectability.

Been ages since I posted to this thread, been catch-up reading so apologies for replying to elderly posts...

^ THIS. Spot on, OEJ.

Scarlett, all respect -- it's a huge mistake to profile pedos as you have, as either groomers or violent killers. Research I've done this year on some of Australia's most heinous pedos (including killers) suggests that even habitual 'soft approach' groomers can get abruptly violent. And the very worst killers can spend months grooming a child and even their family -- check out Albert Fish for a brilliant example of that.

And we have upthread, a report of someone stating that Sabadish was unpredictable, and quite the nasty piece of work. He also had a LOT to lose, if a child wasn't as easily scared as the majority of his victims. Or what OEJ said up there, there's the phenomenon of obsession with a single child, which is not uncommon.

Even if he didn't habitually strangle his victims for the thrill of it, this killer could have simply lost control/been seeking her silence during a highly risky rape.

I am not much of a believer in coincidences, when it comes to murders. If we have a raped and murdered child, and connected to the location of that murder we have a habitual, violent natured pedophile, I think it's quite reasonable to conclude that he's an incredibly viable suspect.

Add to that the fact that other little girls of the same demographic have turned up dead in his general proximity...

If even ONE piece of dna-bearing evidence has survived all this time, it is very possible for police to test Sabadish's relatives for a partial match. Even though he's dead, it'd bring closure to the case, to her family, and to her memory.

And us, ofc. :)
 
Did you ever find the meaning of the #12? Could 12 mean the priest who was scheduled for the 12 o'clock mass?

Normally you have a mass schedule 7:30, 10:00, 12:00
 
Been ages since I posted to this thread, been catch-up reading so apologies for replying to elderly posts...

^ THIS. Spot on, OEJ.

Scarlett, all respect -- it's a huge mistake to profile pedos as you have, as either groomers or violent killers. Research I've done this year on some of Australia's most heinous pedos (including killers) suggests that even habitual 'soft approach' groomers can get abruptly violent. And the very worst killers can spend months grooming a child and even their family -- check out Albert Fish for a brilliant example of that.

And we have upthread, a report of someone stating that Sabadish was unpredictable, and quite the nasty piece of work. He also had a LOT to lose, if a child wasn't as easily scared as the majority of his victims. Or what OEJ said up there, there's the phenomenon of obsession with a single child, which is not uncommon.

Even if he didn't habitually strangle his victims for the thrill of it, this killer could have simply lost control/been seeking her silence during a highly risky rape.

I am not much of a believer in coincidences, when it comes to murders. If we have a raped and murdered child, and connected to the location of that murder we have a habitual, violent natured pedophile, I think it's quite reasonable to conclude that he's an incredibly viable suspect.

Add to that the fact that other little girls of the same demographic have turned up dead in his general proximity...

If even ONE piece of dna-bearing evidence has survived all this time, it is very possible for police to test Sabadish's relatives for a partial match. Even though he's dead, it'd bring closure to the case, to her family, and to her memory.

And us, ofc. :)

I don't think it is a mistake at all. I think that in this case, This was a violent offender. Not a groomer. This girl was brutalized and strangled.

I wish you could see how close this town is put together. At that time everyone knew everyone. The Church is on a main street and getting away while not being seen would not have been easy. Not at that time of day.
 
Been ages since I posted to this thread, been catch-up reading so apologies for replying to elderly posts...

^ THIS. Spot on, OEJ.

Scarlett, all respect -- it's a huge mistake to profile pedos as you have, as either groomers or violent killers. Research I've done this year on some of Australia's most heinous pedos (including killers) suggests that even habitual 'soft approach' groomers can get abruptly violent. And the very worst killers can spend months grooming a child and even their family -- check out Albert Fish for a brilliant example of that.

And we have upthread, a report of someone stating that Sabadish was unpredictable, and quite the nasty piece of work. He also had a LOT to lose, if a child wasn't as easily scared as the majority of his victims. Or what OEJ said up there, there's the phenomenon of obsession with a single child, which is not uncommon.

Even if he didn't habitually strangle his victims for the thrill of it, this killer could have simply lost control/been seeking her silence during a highly risky rape.

I am not much of a believer in coincidences, when it comes to murders. If we have a raped and murdered child, and connected to the location of that murder we have a habitual, violent natured pedophile, I think it's quite reasonable to conclude that he's an incredibly viable suspect.

Add to that the fact that other little girls of the same demographic have turned up dead in his general proximity...

If even ONE piece of dna-bearing evidence has survived all this time, it is very possible for police to test Sabadish's relatives for a partial match. Even though he's dead, it'd bring closure to the case, to her family, and to her memory.

And us, ofc. :)

I don't think it is a mistake at all. I think that in this case, This was a violent offender. Not a groomer. This girl was brutalized and strangled.

I wish you could see how close this town is put together. At that time everyone knew everyone. The Church is on a main street and getting away while not being seen would not have been easy. Not at that time of day.
 
So I have been thinking about Carol Ann a lot lately. I just hate that this little girl's case is not closed and someone is at least named if not able to be charged.

I wish they would pull out the DNA again and look at it all. Did they test the priest for DNA? Now that DNA is better than ever, I just wish they would pull up all the evidence and start over.

I go back and forth. Over and over. I can see it being the priest in one sense but not the other. This just seems like something a Priest would not do in his own house.
I think that Sabadash saw something or knew who did it and because of his past horrors was afraid his secrets would come out and so he looked for an alibi. I have to consider that due to the nature of the crime.

I agree with someone else that had the priest beckoned her in, He would have not had to drag her, she would have gone willingly with him wherever.


I have searched all over for another OLOG cemetery in the area and there is none. It is the biggest Catholic cemetery in the area. I just don't think they would have buried her anywhere but a catholic cemetery.. I wonder how long it was they moved from the area??

I hate when people get away with murdering children.
 
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At the Down Town Club, he asked, “Tell me what you didn’t put in your story.”
An intriguing question, I thought, and I told him about “12.”
After the series ran, a note signed “12” arrived. The sender requested a meeting with me to reveal Carol Dougherty’s killer. The sender instructed me to acknowledge the note in a classified add in the newspaper. I did.
A few days later, while I was at Mass at St. Mark’s, an envelope was left under the windshield wiper of my car. Inside the envelope was a paper with “12” on it. That’s all.

I have to wonder if the 12 stuff is fact? I don't know. It seems weird for someone to start a chase but not finish it.. Like BTK. He could not stand not to be out there..

I just don't know.. I just don't have a lot of faith in Mullane.
 
I went back and looked and the Detective said in 1977 that she was at Our Lady of Grace, But He is either wrong or she was moved with they moved to Berwick.
 

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