Yes, I listened to her podcasts, too. She has done very good work. I haven't heard anything about whether she'll be doing future podcasts. We did receive permission from Mods here at WS to discuss her podcasts and web site.
PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18
- Thread starter J. J. in Phila
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Yes, I listened to her podcasts, too. She has done very good work. I haven't heard anything about whether she'll be doing future podcasts. We did receive permission from Mods here at WS to discuss her podcasts and web site.
J. J. in Phila
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Her information is excellent. However, it does not support her conclusions.
Further, she has not been able to reach a public conclusion.
guardian1234
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I think you are wrong about him walking away. Many political players did not assist in doing any investigation to find DA Ray Gracar ? Why ? I do believe he was conducting his own investigation on Sandusky n I think he turned those notes on that lap top over to someone . I think the players already had it in for him n thought they got all the notes but he was a step ahead . Sandusky did get found out. Penn went down the tubes . I wonder if the mother’s of the boy’s that Sandusky abused were frightened away with Ray’s murder that they never came forward,! Penn state luminary is powerful all those men business men that screwed boys now do u honestly think that the state police in Pennsylvania were gonna find out who murdered Ray Gricar with that much $$$$$ telling them what they will n will not do
J. J. in Phila
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No one "assisted" RFG in 1998, except his staff, and he removed the case from the designated abuse ADA. There was zero evidence he was doing anything with Sandusky. Further, the originals were not digitized in 1998.
I think they meant that Ray had his own notes on the case, possibly based on some interviews he had with parents/mothers of a victim or victims. Something like that. With retirement coming up, perhaps he didn't want anyone at the prosecutors office or the Uni to get access to that info and cause problems for the victims. Perhaps Ray knew he couldn't take the case any farther and decided, with retirement, he had to let it go.
JMO, it may not be what actually happened, but its one of the more logical reasons for his disappearance. JMO
J. J. in Phila
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Not one person has come forward to say that RFG ever interviews anyone about Sandusky after 1998. He never spoke Victim 6 or the victim's mother, even in 1998.
I realize that. It's just my favorite theory of what happened. Second would be he was lured there and killed by someone linked to another case he prosecuted. Guys in his line of work made a lot of enemies by sending people to prison.
minazoe
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if some one murdered Ray , they went to a great deal of trouble to hide the deed..like Hoffa level trouble.
that's why I feel like this was very planned out. My problem with it is all the things that happened before he met with his murder/suicide/identity change/walkaway. The things that occurred that day are unusual and I still wonder if Ray was working some kind of mania induced list...like first you go the quarry, then you go to the lake, then you destroy the hard drive, you walk around, you run into someone and walk around, you are talking on a phone but what phone? you move the car...ok here we are..for me it's when he moves the car.
why does he move the car? why? So it's off the street away from eyes.
this is the last snap shot of Ray.
and we only think this was Ray because someone said they saw him move it. why, why, oh why does he move the car??? it's time for him to go home, it's getting late.
someone said it was Ray..okay..but this is why the cig ash is still so important. mOO
that's why I feel like this was very planned out. My problem with it is all the things that happened before he met with his murder/suicide/identity change/walkaway. The things that occurred that day are unusual and I still wonder if Ray was working some kind of mania induced list...like first you go the quarry, then you go to the lake, then you destroy the hard drive, you walk around, you run into someone and walk around, you are talking on a phone but what phone? you move the car...ok here we are..for me it's when he moves the car.
why does he move the car? why? So it's off the street away from eyes.
this is the last snap shot of Ray.
and we only think this was Ray because someone said they saw him move it. why, why, oh why does he move the car??? it's time for him to go home, it's getting late.
someone said it was Ray..okay..but this is why the cig ash is still so important. mOO
I think he had a burner phone and was communicating with someone. That or those persons were probably misrepresenting themselves to Ray. He was there for a meeting of some sort, but it was a ruse to get him there alone with his laptop and its hard drive.
Ray must have considered it an important meeting, otherwise he wouldn't have stayed so late trying to meet with this person or persons. I think he'd been in contact with these people for some time. The driving around he did in the days before he went missing may have been part of it. Could be he met with someone or traveled someplace to pick up a burner phone they would use to contact him. Also assume they had him move the car to a less public area. Perhaps waited until the antique mall closed.
minazoe
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how could he walk into a trap like that? I mean it's a classic trap...I mean he's heard it all..how could he fall for a ruse?
I know this..some one smoked in the car or leaned in the passenger side window with a cig. It happened, it's not random and it is a clue. something for sure was going down..it has always made sense to me that he might have been disrupted in that parking lot and disappeared...where as the idea that he first met with someone who smoked and left ashes in his car before he ended his own life seems so unlikely.
I always end up at the same place and that is that they didn't try that hard to find Ray. mOO
I know this..some one smoked in the car or leaned in the passenger side window with a cig. It happened, it's not random and it is a clue. something for sure was going down..it has always made sense to me that he might have been disrupted in that parking lot and disappeared...where as the idea that he first met with someone who smoked and left ashes in his car before he ended his own life seems so unlikely.
I always end up at the same place and that is that they didn't try that hard to find Ray. mOO
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Black Diamond
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Rebecca Knight says the cig ash never happened. She says no mention of it in the police file.
There was mention of cigarettes, though. Part of the evidence file includes the collection of some nearby cigarette butts as evidence along with a diagram showing where the different butts were found in the parking lot.
"Two cigarette butts were located in close proximity to the vehicle. These were identified with scene markers as #1 and #2. #1 was a Newport cigarette butt with orange fileter and was located adjacent to the RR corner of the vehicle. #2 was a Monarch cigarette butt with a white filter and was located near the left side of the vehicle. These were collected and packaged in paper (Pharmacist fold) and then paper evidence envelopes.
From the Pennsylvania State Police Forensic Services Notes.
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From the reports I've seen there was nothing tested. I'll try to upload some, but I'm having difficulty uploading images to WS.
There were no usable fingerprints inside the car. Only one person left an identifiable fingerprint on the outside of the car - Ray Gricar. There were other prints on the outside window glass (drivers side) but no match was found for them. They were compared to AFIS and IAFIS, Ray Gricar's fingerprint card and Patti Fornicola's fingerprint card. No DNA testing was done.
JMO, if, as the scent dogs detected, Ray left his car and got into another car parked next to his, he was probably driven somewhere and killed. Someone could have gone back to Ray's car to search it to make sure nothing incriminating was left behind and wiped down for fingerprints. That would account for unknown fingerprints on the outside of Ray's driver side door & window but none on the passenger side and only smudged or wiped prints inside.
If the person was smoking a cigarette, they could have left the smell of a cigarette inside without dropping ashes. JMO only
JMO, if, as the scent dogs detected, Ray left his car and got into another car parked next to his, he was probably driven somewhere and killed. Someone could have gone back to Ray's car to search it to make sure nothing incriminating was left behind and wiped down for fingerprints. That would account for unknown fingerprints on the outside of Ray's driver side door & window but none on the passenger side and only smudged or wiped prints inside.
If the person was smoking a cigarette, they could have left the smell of a cigarette inside without dropping ashes. JMO only
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J. J. in Phila
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Yet the police said there were ash there.
J. J. in Phila
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No matches with any criminal database.
From the report I read, the butts were never submitted for DNA analysis. Did I miss something?
J. J. in Phila
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Yes. DNA was recovered, but it did not match anything in a criminal database.
I just checked my files last night and couldnt find any report on DNA. It would not be surprising if none was recovered from the cigarette butts. Some time had passed.