PA PA - Judy Smith, 50, Philadelphia, 10 April 1997

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Wow, all good ideas scenarios. This could explain why she was found with a book a few feet away from her. Maybe the perp she befriended did a surprise attack behind her while she was reading. He or she figured it was a good time to. It could have been unexpected and quick. This way, Judy would most likely not have any time to identify the attacker if she lived by any chance. Then he or she went through her stuff and left her there. I really think someone took advantage of her friendliness and love for hiking camping. I think she really met someone and he or she killed her. I don't think it was a case where Judy was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Unless someone spotted her and studied her every move but didn't attack just yet and found the perfect time to after a while. Judy seemed to have run into a lot of people so it wouldn't surprise me if she met a murderer and didn't know it.

Maybe her husband did show a lack of compassion and Judy became very vulnerable and hurt and she just left. Someone could have taken advantage of her vulnerable state. Sometimes when I'm upset, I tend to talk to strangers! Not a very good idea! Maybe Judy wanted to cling onto whatever she could.

Judy seemed to be a friendly person and one who would talk to people easily. Even if someone met her on the trail I believe she would have talked to them.

Whatever happened, was totally unexpected to Judy. It happened quickly.
imo
 
Sorry haven't been on much lately. Been dealing with some struggles lately. Plus I'm going to school and that takes up a lot of time. I want and hope to be on here more often.

Anything else new with the Judy Smith case? Since I haven't been on here lately. I'll try to search for more information or articles. Anything I suppose.
 
Not a thing! I keep looking! Glad to see you back. Hope all is going well!
 
So I was reading a lot about this case in the last day or so (was going through a UM wiki and decided to see if I could find anything more about it) and stumbled upon this thread and read through it (all 17 pages!) so I registered and figured I'd post...

As people mentioned about medication she may have had for her knee, I looked up various arthritis medications and found that some of them can cause disorientation as a side effect. Some of them more commonly if it's a new prescription, some of them actually after the medication has been taken for a while, and most commonly among certain age persons. I'd wonder that if they were able to do a toxicology (as mentioned not likely if it were only bones found) if maybe any prescribed medications would have been overlooked? Though many of the sightings in Philly were discounted as her lookalike there were a few according to some of the articles I've read (insomnia is terrible and I didn't save all the links) that seemed promising but described her as seeming disoriented. According to the people who saw her in NC she seemed to be acting fine, but the one who spoke with her said she'd mentioned that her husband and her had been in Philly but she'd decided to come down there. Didn't they find that odd? It's not like it's just a quick drive or something. The fact that she bought the toy seems to indicate some sort of confusion on her part (jmo) although it could easily depend on the toy. My mom's ex collected certain tractor toys, so no further mention about it doesn't really give much to go on. However, I think her forgetting her ID is a sign of some disorientation/confusion starting in by that point.

Also regarding their relationship, I read a few articles that mentioned her family considered the marriage good. The only thing I read about it being problematic was that her friend thought so and that Philly LE thought maybe it was the case. It seems odd to me that after 10 years of dating, 3 years of living together, that she'd be willing to marry the guy if they were having issues? Especially if she'd had prior marriages go badly.

Also, regarding the car, I looked into it and it's not impossible to rent cars even today without a credit card. Even Hertz will rent you a car without one if you apply for a cash thing, though I'd hazard a guess that requires a credit check. It's quite possible at the time more rental places were happy to rent a car without a credit card, and depending on where she got it they may never been able to find it. I am on the fence about whether or not her killer would have rented the car, as the people who claimed to see her with the car didn't see someone else as far as I recall reading.

With regards to the backpack, while it's possible she bought a new one after the red one fell apart, does anyone think perhaps it was dragged off by animals? Especially if she was keeping those purchased sandwiches in there, or some other food... Or perhaps that was taken by the killer along with the wallet? Her jewelry was found later, and somebody on this thread mentioned taking off their jewelry if it's possible they'd lose it. Perhaps she'd stuck it in the backpack and the backpack was dumped in a hurry to locate the wallet, explaining why the jewelry was not on her, and things like a flashlight and book were found nearby?

A few random things that I personally thought were odd:
Her family said she wasn't girly which made it normal that she wouldn't wear makeup. If this is the case why would she be inspired to buy her husband flowers, like he said? Is it some sort of joke between them? I've never had a girl give me flowers, even the "girly" ones, and I'm admittedly a more sensitive type of guy.
As others have said remembering somebody after 6 months seems odd, even if she stood out, who would remember so many specific things? Somebody on the thread said it was a tourist area, which means the shop owners and such would likely see all sorts of people they wouldn't see as regulars. Why would LE take their sightings so seriously, even with such specifics mentioned? Unless, perhaps, they got hold of some of the news about her disappearance and remembered maybe thinking it seemed like her, but then why wouldn't they mention it, especially if they knew things like she were from Philly, until after police found her? Perhaps they saw somebody resembling her, and after the fact sort of made up stories to reinforce their own belief that they'd seen HER and not somebody else?
In one of the articles posted in this thread I read that somebody "across the road" from where she was found (I believe that's what it said) had mentioned that it wasn't someplace a hiker would have gone who wasn't from the area. Why wasn't this mentioned in other articles? Was this only one person's opinion that an out-of-the-way hiking trail would see non-locals?
I also wonder what ever became of the inquiry into her finances. I will note that, while he was her husband, if they kept separate accounts he likely wouldn't have personal access to that information. Also, does anyone know when VeriFone and/or Hypercom terminals became popular in the more rural areas? I know they've been around since the 80s but in the more rural areas I grew up I remember still seeing imprinting machines at least into the early 90s (my family didn't use credit cards so IDK when they went out of common use, even in more rural areas). If places were still using imprinters (I guess some places still use them) it may not have been noticed by a place like a car rental that the card had been reported missing/stolen until after the fact.

Anyway, hope this post wasn't a bad first impression. I guess I asked more strange questions than anything, some of them probably kinda stupid questions. Just a very strange mystery.
 
This is a puzzling case that goes way beyond "who done it". My best WAG (wild assed guess) is that Judy engaged in serious subterfuge to "take a vacation from her marriage" without her husband suspecting it in advance or finding out where she was when she was gone. Being somewhere without any paper trail, left her vulnerable to a predator.

The "missed flight" is very suspicious. I believe that she would have been allowed on that flight had she explained the situation but she didn't try. I think it was a ruse to get the items she needed for her little escapade.

The shopkeeper in NC seems to remember a lot, but as long as there was no media coverage before the interview with the Detective, I don't see how she could be making it up. If there was media coverage, it is possible that she was being less than truthful in order to make herself "part of the investigation", but detectives are aware of this problem and generally good at flushing that sort of thing out. Most likely she is telling the truth.

If there is absolutely no record of any credit card usage, cash unaccounted for etc, then it is probable that she had accounts and a PO box her husband didn't know about.

This is an unsolved murder and it is possible that details are known that have not been disclosed. It is possible that her financial records are available but the facts are being held back. It is also possible that the husband knows of a large credit card bill owed by his wife for her "trip" and he has concealed it least he be liable for it.
 
This is a puzzling case that goes way beyond "who done it". My best WAG (wild assed guess) is that Judy engaged in serious subterfuge to "take a vacation from her marriage" without her husband suspecting it in advance or finding out where she was when she was gone. Being somewhere without any paper trail, left her vulnerable to a predator.

The "missed flight" is very suspicious. I believe that she would have been allowed on that flight had she explained the situation but she didn't try. I think it was a ruse to get the items she needed for her little escapade.

The shopkeeper in NC seems to remember a lot, but as long as there was no media coverage before the interview with the Detective, I don't see how she could be making it up. If there was media coverage, it is possible that she was being less than truthful in order to make herself "part of the investigation", but detectives are aware of this problem and generally good at flushing that sort of thing out. Most likely she is telling the truth.
I (imo) question her taking a break because she apparently mentioned her being on her honeymoon and then going down there to the person she talked to in NC. Interestingly I only managed to find a couple articles that referred to their trip as a honeymoon. The other thing is she was apparently very close with her children and didn't tell them anything, they were just as worried as anyone else. I read in one of the articles that (I think) her son said they were raised to make sure to always call. If this was her third marriage it's not as if she'd have problems admitting marital problems. I also think it odd that she'd decide she needed a break after only being married 8 months, especially when she'd already been with him for so long. Often when you see people taking off like that it was a quick marriage, not after 10 years of dating, 3 years of living together. With 2 prior marriages one would figure they took things "slow" intentionally, to make sure they were avoiding a bad marriage, and I definitely remember reading her children saying their marriage was great and by all accounts (except apparently one friend) they were very happy. Also, I found another article that said they were only married 5 months?

Here's the quote from her daughter:
Amy says it wasn't hard to convince them, however, that Judy had no reason to hide from Jeff; they were very happy together, and made a great couple. "He's the most honest person I've ever met," Amy says. "The guy doesn't even cheat on his taxes."
from: http://archives.citypaper.net/articles/071797/article010.shtml
 
It is hard to tell what goes on in other people's marriages. I believe somewhere in all of the reportage, one friend of Judy's did suggest that all ws not "perfect" in there marriage. Still, It is "odd" that she told no one about here little trip, but people do "odd" things.There is a possiblity that Judy expected to return to Philly by the end of the convention and thought/hoped that her husband wouldn't tell anyone she had been gone.

The trip to Phillidelphia was definitly not a honeymoon. The husband was activly involved in putting on the convention and Judy understood that during the days, she would be "on her own" and at night there would be functions to attend. She would need different clothing if she was going on a hiking trip to the NC. Something I do not know is whether or not her bag was checked for the flight her husband was on and did she check any additional luggage in her later flight.

Philadelphia PD were suspicious that there was no "make-up or feminine type things" in the bathroom but I am not certain about a suitcase with the type of clothing she would need in Philly. Is it possible she brought a second bag (perhaps her blue backpack) with all of her personal items as well a outdoorsy clothes?


Two things do seem pretty clear: Judy was down in NC on her own volition and her husband had nothing to do with her death. Everything else is a mystery wrapped in an enigma ya da ya da..
 
Philadelphia PD were suspicious that there was no "make-up or feminine type things" in the bathroom but I am not certain about a suitcase with the type of clothing she would need in Philly. Is it possible she brought a second bag (perhaps her blue backpack) with all of her personal items as well a outdoorsy clothes?
Well her family and husband all agreed she wasn't much of a makeup wearer, and that she carried what she did wear in her backpack. I took the red backpack to be something of what most women seem to carry in a purse, maybe with a few other things. As for the clothes in the blue backpack and the bag itself, from what I recall reading the family did not identify them as being hers as far as they knew.
 
This is my opinion only but I believe that Judy never went on the trip with her husband. But supposing she did then I think that, for whatever reason, Judy had decided to try and get out of going on the business trip with her husband. (This is assuming that the ID left at home is a true story and Judy was still alive at this time.) Maybe she thought he'd let her go on back home once her ID was missing but instead maybe he insisted on taking her luggage with him and sending her home for her ID. I feel like she had other plans for the time he would be gone on the trip. A business trip is in no real way a honeymoon. My husband used to have a job that required occasional out-of-state travel and I would go with him, but it was quite frankly very dull being left alone from about 8am to 6pm in a strange city. The evenings were far from honeymoonish with him being tired from his long day of boring seminars and me being tired of trying to fill long days with sightseeing.
I can understand Judy putting on the same clothes she flew in, if they were only worn for a few hours, but the same underwear? I often wear a pair of jeans 2 or 3 times before washing because I only have them on for a couple hours at a time. But I would certainly change underwear after showering.
If there WERE flowers in the room, perhaps they were from someone else, not his wife, and he was trying to explain why they were there. And if there was a cocktail party that night are we supposed to believe she threw her dress in a backpack to get on the plane? Where were her dressy clothes? You don't wad those up into a backpack, you fold carefully into a suitcase and then hang them as soon as you reach your hotel.
The woman on the plane very well may not have been Judy, just a lady with similar coloring and Judy's ID. How many times do you see anyone check your ID photo and then stare at you to see if you look alike? Me? Never unless LE has pulled me over.
As for the Christmas shop at Biltmore, I find it very odd that anyone would remember talking to her. I have visited the estate and this shop a number of times and I can tell you that hundreds of people are there every day of the week. Could Judy, or a Judy impersonator, have tried to make certain that people remembered her? If so, her conversation as reported doesn't sound very memorable.
If her wedding rings had not been present I would dismiss the dental comparison altogether because LE was quoted as saying the victim and Judy both had extensive dental work. I hope they were going on way more than that.
On a totally unbelievable and bizarre note, could Judy have disappeared intentionally and yet somehow she (and her husband as an accomplice, possibly) have set this up? It would require a body, obviously, and the appearance of Judy's wedding rings with it, and those pesky dental records. If this were some made-for-TV movie with an unexpected twist, it would involve Judy murdering another woman and causing the body to be found with her own rings, thus staging this as her own murder so she can escape, not that I believe that's the case but I like to think outside of the box sometimes.
This story is just so far-out that it seems as if some of the facts, as currently known, cannot be true.
 
A few questions I have includ

1) was their any Life Insurance on Judy?
2) Did the Husband "discover" any bank accounts or Credit Cards that Judy maintained that he was previously unaware of?
3) Did NC authorities make an effort to identify any abandoned vehicle (particularly a rental) located in the general area at the dime Judy went missing?
4) Was there any media reportage of the situation with Judy before the Christmass Shop Lady was interviewed?
 
A few questions I have includ

1) was their any Life Insurance on Judy?
2) Did the Husband "discover" any bank accounts or Credit Cards that Judy maintained that he was previously unaware of?
3) Did NC authorities make an effort to identify any abandoned vehicle (particularly a rental) located in the general area at the dime Judy went missing?
4) Was there any media reportage of the situation with Judy before the Christmass Shop Lady was interviewed?

Those are all great questions and the answers to those could tell us a lot.

I think she very well could have had other credit cards or bank accounts. This was not a couple who had been married 30 years with a combined credit history of long standing but rather a mature couple who had previously been married. They may have kept separate finances. I know many people who do, and several women who have secret credit cards for various reasons. I have my own credit cards separate from my husband's because of previous debt a spouse incurred on my cards. I do not share my credit with anybody anymore, period, so that may have been Judy's case also.

I am suspicious of the Christmas Shop lady. I really think she'd heard something somewhere. Her conversation with Judy simply wasn't memorable enough for her to know all those details months later. I work with the public where I see far fewer customers than the Christmas Shop there, and I would not have remembered those details.

I just cannot make all the known or suspected details come together at all. I think some of the sightings of Judy are just simply mistakes. I know some were proven to be but I think all of them could possibly be. Nothing actually convinces me she ever followed her husband to the hotel or was ever there. Whether or not this means he was involved, I cannot say, as there could be some other type of info he is protecting in regard to her whereabouts.
 
The forgotten ID seems very suspicious...I dont think that Judith was ever in Philly.

I think the husband wanted to get rid of judy, and had help in doing so. I think when she "forgot" her ID, the husband had really taken it out of her wallet/bag so that she would have to go home alone to get it. When she arrived at home, an accomplice was waiting for her, and murdered her. This made certain the husband had an alibi for the time of the murder (in case someone were to ever find out that she was murdered at this time). A woman accomplice then posed as Judy and boarded the flight to Philadelphia. She then "disappeared" while in that city, making the focus of the investigation in Philadelphia. Meanwhile, the murderer dressed Judith in some hiking gear and drove her body from Boston to North Carolina, and dumped her in the forest.

Why he would do this, I do not know...but I definitely think this is what happened to her. She was way to close to her children to up and leave and not tell them anything. I just don't think Judy chose to disappear...it just wouldn't make sense. She didn't seem like the type to run off, at least with not telling anyone.
 
It seems like they haven't found anything on the blue backpack or the whereabouts of the red one. Although, LE could be withholding this info.

I had a backpack rip not to long ago. One of the straps had torn away from the main body of the pack. I had to go out and get a new one. Maybe her red backpack had started to get ratty, so she purchased a replacement. She could have thrown out the red one anywhere though. Maybe, she put it in the trash at the hotel, the store where she purchased the blue one, or she tossed it in a trash barrel on the street. She may have even thrown it in the trash at home
prior to the trip to Philly. Since the clothes in the backpack were new, perhaps she bought them at the same time she purchased the blue backpack. If the clothes were women's clothes (not men's) then I would suspect those clothes belonged to her. Unless, this is why LE mentioned the Lesbian house close by to where her body was found. Maybe, they thought a woman may have killed her. . .


What about this scenario: maybe her backpack was stolen at some point, which is where the red one and her ID went. Then, if she had kept some cash in a pocket she could have bought the new blue one and the new clothes....
 
I think the husband wanted to get rid of judy, and had help in doing so. I think when she "forgot" her ID, the husband had really taken it out of her wallet/bag so that she would have to go home alone to get it. When she arrived at home, an accomplice was waiting for her, and murdered her. This made certain the husband had an alibi for the time of the murder (in case someone were to ever find out that she was murdered at this time). A woman accomplice then posed as Judy and boarded the flight to Philadelphia. She then "disappeared" while in that city, making the focus of the investigation in Philadelphia. Meanwhile, the murderer dressed Judith in some hiking gear and drove her body from Boston to North Carolina, and dumped her in the forest.

A few problems with this theory, IMHO:
* Husband has to hire at least two accomplices. Once to kill her in Boston, another to impersonate Judy on the plane. Maybe others to move the body. All of these accomplices had to leave no trace whatsoever...
* Except for the Judy impersonator who had to fool a bunch of eyewitnesses. Including making appearances in Asheville.
* Husband also had his step-daughter physically go over to their house the day she vanished. If he had her killed, presumably at their house, then why do this? The killer would have needed time to remove evidence.
* I don't think anyone saw anything at their house (no reports of strangers or people stuffing bodies into trunks.)
* Why travel 12 hours to dump a body from Boston in NC? It dramatically increases the chances of getting caught. If they wanted to dump the body in a rural area, there are areas relatively close to Philly (think South Jersey) or Boston (NH, western Mass.) Why would they even dump it near Asheville, which is a decent-sized city and has a thriving tourist industry? It sounds like the body was found close to town, rather than (say) deep in the nearby Great Smoky Mountains.

moo.
 
:bump: for Judy. :beats:

What scenario resulted in Judy's murder in an isolated area of North Carolina? Who stabbed her, then left her in a shallow grave? Was it a stranger, or someone she may have schemed to meet in Asheville? Unfortunately, North Carolina investigators still have no idea why Judy Smith was killed.

bBqQINa.jpg

Judith Smith
 
I mentioned this case on another thread, and thought I'd take a look.

In September of 1997, I took a plane trip with my father. He had been disabled for more than a decade at that point, and could not drive. He had not renewed his license since the mid-1980's. In order to board the plain, I had to go out and get him a PA non-driver's license, before the trip. We flew out of Phila International.

I'm quite sure that an ID would have been needed and checked.

A few years ago, I was taking a lady friend, who was over 50, out for dinner. She wanted to order a drink and we saw a sign that said ID was required. She had left hers at home. I don't think it would be that unusual for a woman not to remember ID.
 
I checked two things, distance and weather:

It 600 miles from Philadelphia to Ashville. Even driving fast on interstates, it would take just under 20.5 hours, and she was a bit south of Ashville. It could be done in one day, in theory. Two people (or more) driving in shifts, or one driver on stimulants, could do it.

It would be possible to hike there, using the Appalachian Trail, but trail is about 90 miles outside of Phila and 35 miles outside of Ashville, so it is unlikely.

Amtrak would take Smith close to the area, Greenville, SC about 55 miles away; it would take 12 hours. Bus service is also possible.

It was clear but cold in Phila on 4/9/97. The high was the low 40's. She could have been wearing thermals for that.
 
In reading this thread, two things stuck out, a toy truck and sunglasses.

Here is a possibility. The truck was for an adult, a truck driver. It was a token type thing that you put on a mantel or nicknack shelf. Truckers do wear sunglasses, because of the glare while driving. Could the person who at least drove Smith to NC have been a long distance trucker?
 
I wonder who sat next to her on the plane? Maybe they got talking and became friendly. Perhaps she ran into him at the hotel. He may have asked her on the plane where she was staying in Philly and ran into her at that hotel on purpose. She had the next day free to do the tourist thing alone. He invited himself to a accompany her that day. He kidnaps her at some point.

The Ashville thing is troublesome, because she had showed some interest in visiting that area prior to her visit to Philly and then she is found dead in that same vicinity.
 

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