PA - Kenzie Houk, 26, pregnant, murdered, Wampum, 20 Feb 2009

[oceanblueeyes]

Bold and underlined mine - I live in Australia

Here is some info regarding gun control in Oz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

HEre is a good article on the results of Gun controlin our Country

http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20080909-Speech-notes-that-Sarah-Palin-will-never-consult.html

SNIPPED

ETA : with respect that article you cite is 7 years old..And clearly it is from a PRO GUN GROUP that is interested in "limited government" that lobby's people and even advocates GUNS IN CHURCHES
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0902i.asp


And this http://www.fff.org/comment/com0902c.asp

snipped



Stockpiling weapons and ammo heaven help America

Of course it is Jane. One that is anti guns is not going to tell you the truth on how many people are saved every year by a legal gun owner. Yes it is 7 years old and we in America know crime has climbed since then, especially home invasions resulting in homicides and I expect that will continue to rise due to our dire economy and high unemployment rate.

But the 250 thousand females that ward off their sexual attackers each year just may not agree with you about a right to bear arms. I have always carried a weapon. I have a permit to carry it on my person. Twice in my life I have had to use it. Once to save myself from being raped by three men and possibly murdered. And once to protect myself, brother and son from an intruder. The first time I fired my weapon with the purpose to scare them off. It worked. The second time I pointed the weapon on the culprit until police arrived.

Again it is the mindset of the killer not the weapon they use that makes the murder engage.

If you take away the right to bear arms from the legal gun owners then the only ones that will have weapons are the criminals.

imoo

 

[JaneInOz]

I think gun ownership and violence are part of our history. It's ingrained. The Western mythology of the tough, proud, self-sufficient, independent cowboy who only needs his gun and a horse and who cannot rely in government to solve his problems or keep his family safe, and who is not afraid of carnage, is part of the blood of the people here. I don't think that's going to change anytime soon

I agree with that. And Gun control may see the rate rise to start with but you do a buyback, you give an amnesty, you start teaching about what guns do, do campaigns showing WHAT Guns do to people.

The school massacres , we just don't have them. Because kids don't have ready acsess to guns of any sort youth or adult..

This 11 yr old thought Guns were fine, knew how to handle one, enough to shoot a 8 mth pregnant woman in the HEAD and blow her away

And THEN just walk off to school like it meant nothing

And that IS Because guns are "a way of life" " a part of the culture"

BUT

No one said there couldn't be a change

Im sorry , i know my opinion on this issue is probaby not welcome here, I am on an American board and I am not American.

But I feel strongly about this issue. And yes I do feel that it is the person behind the gun that is the culprit, I do understand that. But peoples mindesets need to be changed and having the RIGHT to bear arms is wrong - IMO

 

[concernedperson]

Of course it is Jane. One that is anti guns is not going to tell you the truth on how many people are saved every year by a legal gun owner. Yes it is 7 years old and we in America know crime has climbed since then, especially home invasions resulting in homicides and I expect that will continue to rise due to our dire economy and high unemployment rate.

But the 250 thousand females that ward off their sexual attackers each year just may not agree with you about a right to bear arms. I have always carried a weapon. I have a permit to carry it on my person. Twice in my life I have had to use it. Once to save myself from being raped by three men and once to protect myself, brother and son from an intruder. The first time I fired my weapon with the purpose to scare them off. It worked. The second time I pointed the weapon on the culprit until police arrived.

Again it is mindset of the killer not the weapon they use that makes the murder engage.

If you take away the right to bear arms from the legal gun owners then the only ones that will have weapons are the criminals.

imoo

And therein lies the fine line. I am so glad you had your weapon and are here with us tonight. America has been an open border country for a long time and along with that you take the bad with the good. There is much bad that has infiltrated and I don't think I need to cite every case.

With our current economic problems we are seeing the worse of everything. Atlanta has turned into a horror with crime.

The mindset of the killer will always be first and foremost and added pressures are triggers.

 

[JaneInOz]

Of course it is Jane. One that is anti guns is not going to tell you the truth on how many people are saved every year by a legal gun owner. Yes it is 7 years old and we in America know crime has climbed since then, especially home invasions resulting in homicides and I expect that will continue to rise due to our dire economy and high unemployment rate.

But the 250 thousand females that ward off their sexual attackers each year just may not agree with you about a right to bear arms. I have always carried a weapon. I have a permit to carry it on my person. Twice in my life I have had to use it. Once to save myself from being raped by three men and possibly murdered. And once to protect myself, brother and son from an intruder. The first time I fired my weapon with the purpose to scare them off. It worked. The second time I pointed the weapon on the culprit until police arrived.

Again it is the mindset of the killer not the weapon they use that makes the murder engage.

If you take away the right to bear arms from the legal gun owners then the only ones that will have weapons are the criminals.

imoo

Wow I am entirely sorry that you had to go through any of that

Let me ask you this though, what if he / they had overpowered you and shot you dead ? or overpowered you and taken that gun and killed someone else with it ?

So on average how many people in America legally own and carry a gun do you reckon ?

 

[Gray]

Good Lord. No child should have free access to a gun. I have no problems with SUPERVISING a child while shooting a gun in a contest or something, but free access to the gun is unacceptable because children do not have the capability of judging the consequences of their actions.

He still needs to be tried for a double homicide.

 

[JaneInOz]

Good Lord. No child should have free access to a gun. I have no problems with SUPERVISING a child while shooting a gun in a contest or something, but free access to the gun is unacceptable because children do not have the capability of judging the consequences of their actions.

He still needs to be tried for a double homicide.

Agreed
Passionate Gray I am so sorry for your loss - I just noticed your signature
Very sorry x

 

[Gray]

Agreed
Passionate Gray I am so sorry for your loss - I just noticed your signature
Very sorry x

Thanks, dear.

It's been rough, but I'm ok.

 

[January.]

I am so glad he's also being charged in the death of the unborn baby. This one really hurts my heart. This link has photos of the house and a lot of information: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jfUUCNd8ljeuLU4Qr3BF_5pwHXlwD96GBSSO0

Rest in peace, Kenzie and Baby Boy.

 

[Fairy1]

And therein lies the fine line. I am so glad you had your weapon and are here with us tonight. America has been an open border country for a long time and along with that you take the bad with the good. There is much bad that has infiltrated and I don't think I need to cite every case.

With our current economic problems we are seeing the worse of everything. Atlanta has turned into a horror with crime.

The mindset of the killer will always be first and foremost and added pressures are triggers.

You are absolutely right, concernedperson, in that it is the mindset of the people with the guns that is crucial. Gun control will have absolutely no effect as the "bad" guys will still acquire weapons no matter what the laws. At least now, the good guys have a fighting chance. That being said, the bigger question is why human life means so little to so many these days. That IMO, is the the key. I don't believe it's video games. There is a serious disconnect with people these days that didn't exist before. And yes, with the current economic situation, rise in unemployment and pressure, we are likely to see a rise in murders.

In the past 2 weeks in Vegas, we have had 2 incidents that are worth considering here. The first involved a shopping cart that hit a car in a Walmart parking lot. The guy whose car was hit stabbed the other guy dead in the parking lot, in front of numerous witnesses. The other involved a homeowner who walked into his own home while a robbery was in progress. The robber had a pellet gun - which the homeowner mistook for a firearm and shot him dead on the spot. The homeowner had a permit and will not be charged. The robber had a loooooong rap sheet and probably had it coming. I guess guns are not the real problem here.....

 

[JaneInOz]

I am so glad he's also being charged in the death of the unborn baby. This one really hurts my heart. This link has photos of the house and a lot of information: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jfUUCNd8ljeuLU4Qr3BF_5pwHXlwD96GBSSO0

Rest in peace, Kenzie and Baby Boy.

OH MY GOD

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jfUUCNd8ljeuLU4Qr3BF_5pwHXlwD96GBSSO0

SNIPPED !!!!!

adding that the weapon, a youth model 20-gauge shotgun, was found in what police believed was the boy's bedroom.

The shotgun, which apparently belonged to Brown, is designed for children and such weapons do not have to be registered, Bongivengo said.

IS DESINGED FOR CHILDREN That is RIDICULOUS

And no need to be registered MORE RIDICULOUS

Here is a photo of a YOUTH 20 guage Shotgun

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?...firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&sa=N


And then I found this - a list of all the guns MADE FOR CHILDREN

http://www.ocshooters.com/Gen/kidshooting/youth-firearms.htm


SIGH

 

[concernedperson]

You are absolutely right, concernedperson, in that it is the mindset of the people with the guns that is crucial. Gun control will have absolutely no effect as the "bad" guys will still acquire weapons no matter what the laws. At least now, the good guys have a fighting chance. That being said, the bigger question is why human life means so little to so many these days. That IMO, is the the key. I don't believe it's video games. There is a serious disconnect with people these days that didn't exist before. And yes, with the current economic situation, rise in unemployment and pressure, we are likely to see a rise in murders.

In the past 2 weeks in Vegas, we have had 2 incidents that are worth considering here. The first involved a shopping cart that hit a car in a Walmart parking lot. The guy whose car was hit stabbed the other guy dead in the parking lot, in front of numerous witnesses. The other involved a homeowner who walked into his own home while a robbery was in progress. The robber had a pellet gun - which the homeowner mistook for a firearm and shot him dead on the spot. The homeowner had a permit and will not be charged. The robber had a loooooong rap sheet and probably had it coming. I guess guns are not the real problem here.....

See, perfect examples of mindset. Honestly, we need to protect ourselves I am not at the gun toting yet but I will consider it.

You have to consider aberrations in someone else's mind. That is the scary part and how to second guess that to protect you own life.

What makes a child kill someone? We have always thought that later in life abuse issues would show up but what if they are sooner? Or the child is an abuser them self even though young? Not having all the mature thought processes and act on impulse? Sociopaths without the opportunity to grow into serious adult sociopaths.

Mental health issues need to be addressed more seriously as the burden on society later is extreme.

 

[JaneInOz]

You are absolutely right, concernedperson, in that it is the mindset of the people with the guns that is crucial. Gun control will have absolutely no effect as the "bad" guys will still acquire weapons no matter what the laws. At least now, the good guys have a fighting chance. That being said, the bigger question is why human life means so little to so many these days. That IMO, is the the key. I don't believe it's video games. There is a serious disconnect with people these days that didn't exist before. And yes, with the current economic situation, rise in unemployment and pressure, we are likely to see a rise in murders.

In the past 2 weeks in Vegas, we have had 2 incidents that are worth considering here. The first involved a shopping cart that hit a car in a Walmart parking lot. The guy whose car was hit stabbed the other guy dead in the parking lot, in front of numerous witnesses. The other involved a homeowner who walked into his own home while a robbery was in progress. The robber had a pellet gun - which the homeowner mistook for a firearm and shot him dead on the spot. The homeowner had a permit and will not be charged. The robber had a loooooong rap sheet and probably had it coming. I guess guns are not the real problem here.....

Unfortunately its sentences like "At least now, the good guys have a fighting chance" that seem to echo the mindset of people in America having the right to bear arms - This isnt a western movie ....its real life

And No one "has it coming" The robber did not deserve to die, he deserved to go for prison for a very long time.

The Rage that seems to be apparent as in your car park example is terrible and its EVERYWHERE - I had a man give me the finger in my daughters preschool car park the other day simply because I asked him to move his car, and that double parking alongside Me on the road was dangerous, He abused me drove off , turned around and jumped into my spot and gave me the finger



People have NO respect - its that simple

 

[Fairy1]

Unfortunately its sentences like "At least now, the good guys have a fighting chance" that seem to echo the mindset of people in America having the right to bear arms - This isnt a western movie ....its real life

And No one "has it coming" The robber did not deserve to die, he deserved to go for prison for a very long time.

The Rage that seems to be apparent as in your car park example is terrible and its EVERYWHERE - I had a man give me the finger in my daughters preschool car park the other day simply because I asked him to move his car, and that double parking alongside Me on the road was dangerous, He abused me drove off , turned around and jumped into my spot and gave me the finger



People have NO respect - its that simple

I disagree about no one "having it coming." IMO, the guy who was killed robbing the home of a regular hard-working man, DID have it coming. He was a violent criminal with a long and violent criminal past.

My husband and I have worked very hard to make a safe and secure home for our children and although we do not own any guns, I reserve the right to protect MY OWN HOME AND MY CHILDREN. I would have NO "respect" for anyone breaking into my home and would not hesitate to shoot, if I had the opportunity. However, if someone's shopping cart accidentally hit my car, I think I could control myself. It's a matter of self-control.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

And therein lies the fine line. I am so glad you had your weapon and are here with us tonight. America has been an open border country for a long time and along with that you take the bad with the good. There is much bad that has infiltrated and I don't think I need to cite every case.

With our current economic problems we are seeing the worse of everything. Atlanta has turned into a horror with crime.

The mindset of the killer will always be first and foremost and added pressures are triggers.

I read that Atlanta has had a 40% surge in crime, concernedperson.

It is quite scary and I think it is going to get much worse before it gets better.

In our area we are seeing a rise in home invasions and the homeowners are being severely beaten, raped or even killed.

I am a law abiding citizen. Heck I have only had just once traffic ticket in my life lol but I do want the right to be able to protect myself and my loved ones. I would never want to harm another soul but I don't want to just standby and see something happen to them and do nothing. Usually just pointing the weapon works. Most criminals are cowards and really don't want to get hurt. They just want to do all the hurting to someone else.

imo

 

[Fairy1]

I read that Atlanta has had a 40% surge in crime, concernedperson.

It is quite scary and I think it is going to get much worse before it gets better.

In our area we are seeing a rise in home invasions and the homeowners are being severely beaten, raped or even killed.

imo

Not that it matters as I believe we'll see a spike everywhere in the US for a while, but where are you OBE?

 

[JaneInOz]

Here if you kill someone who entered your property you get arrested !

ITs considered maslaughter , and sure the judge will take the circumstances into conideration...

But IMO Property doesnt equal life .

People are bad, People need to be stopped m and justice served , but shooting someone DEAD For coming in to your house to steal your TV is not what the huma race is about

In regards to someone coming into your home to hurt you or your family , well I agree and I would HOPE I would have the strength to fight them, be it using whatever I saw around ...

But Im glad we don't have the right to bear arms here or the right to shoot someone because A) I wonder if I could actually do it and B) I would be terrified that someone who Saw a opportuity to take MY gun and use it on me or my family when they had NO weapon to begin with would frighten me to death

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I disagree about no one "having it coming." IMO, the guy who was killed robbing the home of a regular hard-working man, DID have it coming. He was a violent criminal with a long and violent criminal past.

My husband and I have worked very hard to make a safe and secure home for our children and although we do not own any guns, I reserve the right to protect MY OWN HOME AND MY CHILDREN. I would have NO "respect" for anyone breaking into my home and would not hesitate to shoot, if I had the opportunity. However, if someone's shopping cart accidentally hit my car, I think I could control myself. It's a matter of self-control.

I agree and more and more private citizens are fighting back when it comes to these scumbags who have intent to do bodily harm or invade someone's private home while they are there.

I am very easygoing. I see many people that are very reckless, angry and rude when in a vehicle. I ignore it and maneuver around them and out of their way.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not that it matters as I believe we'll see a spike everywhere in the US for a while, but where are you OBE?

I live in southwest Georgia and the unemployment rate is higher than the national average. We have seen an escalation in violent crime the last few months.

I am more alert than ever before and I live in a neighborhood where crime doesn't happen but that doesn't mean it can't. No one is safe no matter where they live. I think everyone should be extremely careful. When so many hands are idle the devil will do his work.

imoo

 

[Fairy1]

I live in southwest Georgia and the unemployment rate is higher than the national average. We have seen an escalation in violent crime the last few months.

I am more alert than ever before and I live in a neighborhood where crime doesn't happen but that doesn't mean it can't. No one is safe no matter where they live. I think everyone should be extremely careful. When so many hands are idle the devil will do his work.

imoo

ITA, OBE. These are frightening times we're living in and as I said, we will see spikes in violent crimes all over the US. Still, that doesn't necessarily explain why we're seeing children commit murder. IMO, there is a deeper reason for that which is not tied to the current economic environment. This is what we need to figure out.

 

[drew]

This is rural PA people, you would be hard pressed to find a home WITHOUT a gun. You can't take these people's guns from them.

Who exactly was taking care of these children? An 11 year old getting himself and a 7 year old ready for school?? The mother pregnant AGAIN? Living with the boyfriend? Where is the other father?
I'm sick of people having children they don't want and can't take care of. Not saying she deserved this, but this family needs to take responsibilty for what happened.